Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 22 Dec 2019, 3:26 pm

I should be okay security wise BladeRacer

I mean;
- I live in a pretty safe neighbourhood
- I have security doors
- I have an alarm system
- I have security cameras
- My safe has been bolted both into the concrete of my house as well as being bolted to the frame of my house
- My safe is rock solid
(It doesn't budge at all)

Plus on top of that all
I will now be putting my safe keys into the portable key safe from Bunnings that Caveman recommended earlier in the thread today

I should be A-okay

I don't think there's anything else I can do to make my firearms any safer
:-)

Being a shooter comes with great responsibility in Australia I find
You 100% wanna do the right thing
100% you don't want firearms ending up in the wrong hands

We are all responsible for the community's safety

It's something to take seriously

As John F. Kennedy once said:
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!"
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by bladeracer » 22 Dec 2019, 3:36 pm

TheFirearmEnthusiast wrote:I was actually gonna say Lads

Even if the batteries go flat
That's no problems for me anyway
Coz I've gotta whole heap of spare batteries anyway

But for purely argument's sake;

Do you guys reckon it'd be legal to store the safe keys inside the safe itself or?


Regarding it being legal, it could be argued either way I guess, but it's not the sort of argument I'd choose to be having if it ended up in court for some reason.

As an aside, keeping anything not directly related to your firearms n your gun safes is not ideal. Going into your safe when you need something always carries the small risk of accidentally leaving the door open or unlocked, it's sensible to limit access to only when you want a firearm.

I have safes with keypads to unlock a manually-operated rotary latch to release the main lock, then you turn the main handle to draw the pins into the door. With the rotary latch it's very easy to forget to turn it back after you lock the main handle, which does not reset the keypad, leaving the door closed but not locked, simply turning the main handle opens it. My "marginally-better" safe uses a primary four-sided key that can't be removed without turning the main handle first. The lock pins around the door means the door either has to be closed to turn the handle, or wide open. With the key attached to my belt, it's virtually impossible to leave this system unlocked.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by bladeracer » 22 Dec 2019, 3:48 pm

Not me, I don't recommend keeping ammo in a safe with firearms. In Victoria it is only "legal" because of a commissioner's memo that allows it, which can be withdrawn at any time. But too often thieves steal the entire safe and take it somewhere they can cut it open at their leisure, including the ammo compartment. You have effectively stored your ammo and firearms together in that situation.

Ammo needs only be in a locked container, which makes it easy to hide elsewhere, ideally in a different locked room. A mate of mine in Perth installed a steel roller door in the end of the hallway of his house to secure his firearms and ammo, but that was in the seventies and wouldn't comply now in WA, not even for securing empty brass cases.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 22 Dec 2019, 3:53 pm

I think that if you love your country
You'd do anything in your power to make your firearms and ammunition are as safe as possible

Being a firearm owner is a big responsibility I find

I think we all owe it to our country to be as safe as possible in terms of storing our firearms and ammunition

The last thing you want is for your firearms to end up in the wrong hands
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by bladeracer » 22 Dec 2019, 4:06 pm

TheFirearmEnthusiast wrote:I think that if you love your country
You'd do anything in your power to make your firearms and ammunition are as safe as possible

Being a firearm owner is a big responsibility I find

I think we all owe it to our country to be as safe as possible in terms of storing our firearms and ammunition

The last thing you want is for your firearms to end up in the wrong hands


I agree that it makes sense to own them responsibly, I don't agree that it needs to be,written in law. They want us to be considered the perpetrators of crime by allowing ourselves to be robbed of our possessions, when we are in fact the victims of robbery that the authorities have dismally failed to protect us from. It's the same as blaming us for being robbed by not locking our homes or vehicles because they allow criminals to control our lives.

Keep all your possessions secure as any sensible person would.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 22 Dec 2019, 4:20 pm

Gun laws are so tricky I find BladeRacer

In the sense that;
As a firearm owner
I would LOVE for our firearm laws to be more lax
(Bringing back the semi-auto's would be fun for example)

But at the same time
If guns are too easily accessible as well
If crazy people can then get their hands on firearms
If problems then arise

That will bite us back in the arse
And ultimately
It will then be us, the law abiding citizens that will pay the price unfortunately

So in a way
I do want more lax laws
But at the same time, I don't want more lax laws lol
Coz I don't want any more further restrictions on us

Gun laws are such a fine balancing act

Like you know those guys at the circus that walk on those extremely slim ropes? Hahaha

That's what it feels like unfortunately

If someone is a fully law abiding citizen though
If someone has had firearms for I don't know
10x years without any problems
I don't see the issue with owning a semi-auto

Go figure
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 22 Dec 2019, 5:38 pm

Thanks for your advice by the way Caveman

I have just gone to Bunnings

I have just purchased the "portable key safe"

Took it home

I have just placed my safe keys in there

All good, works perfectly well

Even my safe keys are 100% secure now
:-)
(Well as secure as they can be)

Peace of mind is great!
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by bladeracer » 22 Dec 2019, 7:18 pm

TheFirearmEnthusiast wrote:Gun laws are so tricky I find BladeRacer

In the sense that;
As a firearm owner
I would LOVE for our firearm laws to be more lax
(Bringing back the semi-auto's would be fun for example)

But at the same time
If guns are too easily accessible as well
If crazy people can then get their hands on firearms
If problems then arise

That will bite us back in the arse
And ultimately
It will then be us, the law abiding citizens that will pay the price unfortunately

So in a way
I do want more lax laws
But at the same time, I don't want more lax laws lol
Coz I don't want any more further restrictions on us

Gun laws are such a fine balancing act

Like you know those guys at the circus that walk on those extremely slim ropes? Hahaha

That's what it feels like unfortunately

If someone is a fully law abiding citizen though
If someone has had firearms for I don't know
10x years without any problems
I don't see the issue with owning a semi-auto

Go figure


Our "more lax laws" worked just fine for decades, we have far more gun crime now than before '96, and the overwhelming majority of it is done with illegally-imported firearms, not those stolen from us. We all owned semi-autos before '96, without any problems at all. My very first firearm was a semi-auto 10/22, as it was for so many kids. My very first shotgun was a Bentley eight-shot pump 12ga, also before I was old enough to vote or drink.

We do not need tighter gun laws, we need better criminal laws and real penalties for those that decide to use firearms for criminal activity. Sort that out and we can get rid of all the gun laws. Stop filling our prisons with traffic and fine offenders, and put real criminals in there. But without real crime what excuse would the Police have for keeping us "safe" with their automatic weapons and body armour...
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by Tank » 23 Dec 2019, 7:02 am

Are you sure that safe is mounted securely Republican?.......

Blade. Completely agree with the ‘hard justice for crims with firearms’ approach but I’m sorry I don’t want every dick out there owning a firearm....
I’m still coming across knobs who shouldn’t be allowed to play with coloured wooden blocks let alone a gun....We have to have some controls in place I reckon.
Semi autos were great for a lark but didn’t make us better shooters. Personally I don’t really miss em that much. (Cept chasing foxes off the back of the ute....)

I hear where you’re coming from though.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 8:13 am

Tank;
My safe has been mounted so securely bro
Bolted it into the concrete of my house
Bolted it to the frame of my house as well
I have an alarm system
I have motion security cameras
I have security doors
My safe is hidden away in the house
My safe keys are now even in a safe of their own
Which that key safe is also hidden away as well
I've truly done everything in my power to make my firearms as secure as possible
It's awesome
No regrets lol
:-)

And yeah
I agree with you as well
Coz like I said before
Even though I am extremely pro-gun
In reality
The issue is;
If every tom, dick and Harry has a firearm.
A catastrophe is bound to happen
And then we'll see even more restrictions on us
Which would suck

I honestly do pray that every firearm owner in Australia does do the right thing
This way we can keep enjoying our awesome sport of hunting and target shooting
I pray
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by RoginaJack » 23 Dec 2019, 9:34 am

"Is it Legal? Could be might not be BUT is it Stupid to keep the keys locked inside the safe, that's the question and what does the Insurance mob think :)
Last edited by RoginaJack on 23 Dec 2019, 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by bladeracer » 23 Dec 2019, 1:08 pm

Tank wrote:Are you sure that safe is mounted securely Republican?.......

Blade. Completely agree with the ‘hard justice for crims with firearms’ approach but I’m sorry I don’t want every dick out there owning a firearm....
I’m still coming across knobs who shouldn’t be allowed to play with coloured wooden blocks let alone a gun....We have to have some controls in place I reckon.
Semi autos were great for a lark but didn’t make us better shooters. Personally I don’t really miss em that much. (Cept chasing foxes off the back of the ute....)

I hear where you’re coming from though.


Why do we need to keep the recklessly inept from legally owning firearms when we allow them to drink, drive, vote and procreate? Firearms are probably the least amount of damage they could do.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 1:24 pm

RoginaJack;
It's all good
I went to Bunnings
I purchased a "key safe" for $20
(Didn't know they existed before)
I store my safe keys in there from now
So not only is my safe pretty secure now
But even my safe keys are pretty secure now too
(Having a safe of their own hidden away)

Better be safe than sorry

During my firearm safety course, the policemen always told us to ask ourselves the question:
"Is there anything else that I can do to make my firearms safer?"

I agree with that logic
:-)

We should always be doing all we can to prevent our firearms from ending up in the wrong hands
Of course
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by sungazer » 23 Dec 2019, 3:30 pm

Hey TheFirearmEnthusiast when are you going to let everyone here in on the joke you have been playing with them. Reveal your true or old username perhaps on New Years or string them out to Aprils Fools day :lol:
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 3:37 pm

Sungazer;
Lol
I'm not playing anyone
I'm really that passionate about firearms
Hence why I'm trying to be as informed as I can be

My girlfriend always cracks it at me coz I spend too much time reading up on firearms instead of paying attention to her

Being a new shooter
There's a lot to learn brah;
- so many different rifle brands
- so many different calibers
- so many different scopes
- so many different ammunition
- so many different laws that we all need to be aware of in order to be fully law abiding and fully responsible

It's a lot to take in cuz

Being a new shooter
There's a lot to learn brah

If anything, a lot of shooters told me that they have been very impressed with me
As I've gained years of knowledge in the space of 1x month only

I believe that if you do love firearms
That you'd wanna be as informed as you can possible be
Knowledge is power friend!
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 3:42 pm

I believe that there is no shame in trying to be as educated as possible
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Dec 2019, 3:52 pm

IMO all of above is nonsense. Just find a decent spot to hide the bloody key. The key safe just become a "target" if found by thieves.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by sungazer » 23 Dec 2019, 4:13 pm

Ok its our little secret.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 4:14 pm

Oldbloke;
Yeah I agree but
Like I said above
My house isn't that big
And sometimes I have guests that come stay over at my house for long periods of time
And they have children and stuff that run around everywhere that play hide and seek everywhere around the house etc
I'm worried that if I hide my keys somewhere
I'm worried that somebody, someday, may stumble across the keys by accident
Thus, compromising the security of my safe a little

I wanna take no risks at all

What I'm gonna do is;
I'm gonna place my keys inside my Key Safe that I've just purchased
(It requires a pin code for opening it)
And then im gonna hide the key safe somewhere around the house
(To be extra safe)
This way;
Even if somebody someday does manage to stumble across my key safe by accident
No problems
They still won't be able to get into my safe
As they won't be able to have access to the keys
As they won't know the pin code of the key safe that's required for opening the key safe

I honestly wanna take no risks at all
I wanna be as secure as possible
And yeah I reckon this is the way to go in terms of being as secure as possible

#1 Keys into the Key Safe (pin code required)
#2 Key Safe hidden away somewhere safe
Perfect
Double protection
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by PCHammond » 23 Dec 2019, 5:40 pm

Not sure how long the key safe will last against a hammer.

Most safes won't last long against a crowbar or angle grinder, nomatter how much you have bolted it down. I honestly think you are overthinking it.

I've got a composite safe that is steel then concrete then steel. It's not that big but it's damn heavy (over 200kg for a 12 gun safe). I've got it bolted down but if someone is determined to get into there, they will.

I'd probably just find a good place to hide it. Put it in the pocket of an old coat in your wardrobe. In a ziploc bag behind the laundry powder. Tucked under a shelf. It's good that you have a key safe but the reality is that if they are determined to find your key safe, they will also find a way to get into the key safe or into the safe without any keys.

Anyway, be sensible but you don't need to overthink things. Sometimes, simpler is better.
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Dec 2019, 5:44 pm

IMO, then the thieves find the key safe they will just smash it with a hammer.

PS. Nothing in life is perfect
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by bladeracer » 23 Dec 2019, 5:56 pm

One thing that surprised me moving from Perth to Victoria, in Perth you have to kick your way through a double-brick cavity wall to get into a well-secured house, over here you just kick through some fibro, steel, etc, pull out the insulation and kick through the plasterboard :-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 5:58 pm

My thought process was like this;

Originally
I wanted to hide my keys in my car all the time
But then I opted against it
Coz I was like:
"If someone steals my car one day, then I'm screwed, as the keys would be gone in the stolen car"

Then I realised that the most secure
/safe place to store my keys would be inside my house, hidden somewhere inside my house
But then I thought to myself:
"If somebody, someday stumbles across my keys in my house by accident, then the security of my safe would be compromised"

Hence why in the end
I opted for the Key Safe
Putting the keys inside the key safe
Then hiding the key safe away somewhere in the house

That's the most secure, most practical way that I came up with for fully securing my keys to the best of my ability
:-)

Of course nothing is perfect
But that's the closest to what I got to perfection I suppose
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 23 Dec 2019, 6:21 pm

How good will a $20 key safe be.... that's the umm $20 dollar question... not much better then a pocket
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 6:32 pm

Ziad;
That $20 Key safe
That's not a deterrent against thieves who desperately would wanna get into my safe who would be there on a mission
That's more of a deterrent for people who might accidentally stumble across my keys one day in my house by accident

Who knows
Who knows if somebody, one day stumbles across my keys by accident
Id rather be safe than sorry
Id rather add 1x extra layer of security
Better secure your keys to the best of your ability instead of not
:-)

What if you throw a party one day?
What if there's heaps of people in and out your house one night?
What if someone, somehow, God knows how, stumbles across you keys by accident?
That would be terrible

Hence why
Id rather add an extra layer of protection
(Hence the key safe)
Hidden away
:-)

Makes total sense to me
Why not add an extra layer of security if you can?
For $20
Can't go wrong
:-)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 23 Dec 2019, 6:35 pm

Hey republic.... every time I read your pays I imagine, Willy wonka playing his little whistle, and the oompa loompa singing their songs (in a rhyming voice)

The original movie... which you might be too young to have seen
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 6:40 pm

Haven't seen it
Anyway
What I'm saying makes total sense!
Coz like I said
If for $20, you can add one extra layer of security
Why the hell not
What's $20?
:thumbsup:
;)
:)
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 6:41 pm

:thumbsup:
8-)
:drinks:
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by RoginaJack » 23 Dec 2019, 8:03 pm

Or you could put ]]em on a chain and padlock around your neck
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Re: Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 23 Dec 2019, 8:04 pm

Nah

I wouldn't wanna ruin my look RoginaJack

You don't wanna mess with perfection!
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