Storing Safe Keys inside the Safe legal?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Oldbloke;
Yeah I agree but
Like I said above
My house isn't that big
And sometimes I have guests that come stay over at my house for long periods of time
And they have children and stuff that run around everywhere that play hide and seek everywhere around the house etc
I'm worried that if I hide my keys somewhere
I'm worried that somebody, someday, may stumble across the keys by accident
Thus, compromising the security of my safe a little

I wanna take no risks at all

What I'm gonna do is;
I'm gonna place my keys inside my Key Safe that I've just purchased
(It requires a pin code for opening it)
And then im gonna hide the key safe somewhere around the house
(To be extra safe)
This way;
Even if somebody someday does manage to stumble across my key safe by accident
No problems
They still won't be able to get into my safe
As they won't be able to have access to the keys
As they won't know the pin code of the key safe that's required for opening the key safe

I honestly wanna take no risks at all
I wanna be as secure as possible
And yeah I reckon this is the way to go in terms of being as secure as possible

#1 Keys into the Key Safe (pin code required)
#2 Key Safe hidden away somewhere safe
Perfect
Double protection

[PCHammond]

Not sure how long the key safe will last against a hammer.

Most safes won't last long against a crowbar or angle grinder, nomatter how much you have bolted it down. I honestly think you are overthinking it.

I've got a composite safe that is steel then concrete then steel. It's not that big but it's damn heavy (over 200kg for a 12 gun safe). I've got it bolted down but if someone is determined to get into there, they will.

I'd probably just find a good place to hide it. Put it in the pocket of an old coat in your wardrobe. In a ziploc bag behind the laundry powder. Tucked under a shelf. It's good that you have a key safe but the reality is that if they are determined to find your key safe, they will also find a way to get into the key safe or into the safe without any keys.

Anyway, be sensible but you don't need to overthink things. Sometimes, simpler is better.

[Oldbloke]

IMO, then the thieves find the key safe they will just smash it with a hammer.

PS. Nothing in life is perfect

[bladeracer]

One thing that surprised me moving from Perth to Victoria, in Perth you have to kick your way through a double-brick cavity wall to get into a well-secured house, over here you just kick through some fibro, steel, etc, pull out the insulation and kick through the plasterboard

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

My thought process was like this;

Originally
I wanted to hide my keys in my car all the time
But then I opted against it
Coz I was like:
"If someone steals my car one day, then I'm screwed, as the keys would be gone in the stolen car"

Then I realised that the most secure
/safe place to store my keys would be inside my house, hidden somewhere inside my house
But then I thought to myself:
"If somebody, someday stumbles across my keys in my house by accident, then the security of my safe would be compromised"

Hence why in the end
I opted for the Key Safe
Putting the keys inside the key safe
Then hiding the key safe away somewhere in the house

That's the most secure, most practical way that I came up with for fully securing my keys to the best of my ability


Of course nothing is perfect
But that's the closest to what I got to perfection I suppose

[Sergeant Hartman]

How good will a $20 key safe be.... that's the umm $20 dollar question... not much better then a pocket

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Ziad;
That $20 Key safe
That's not a deterrent against thieves who desperately would wanna get into my safe who would be there on a mission
That's more of a deterrent for people who might accidentally stumble across my keys one day in my house by accident

Who knows
Who knows if somebody, one day stumbles across my keys by accident
Id rather be safe than sorry
Id rather add 1x extra layer of security
Better secure your keys to the best of your ability instead of not


What if you throw a party one day?
What if there's heaps of people in and out your house one night?
What if someone, somehow, God knows how, stumbles across you keys by accident?
That would be terrible

Hence why
Id rather add an extra layer of protection
(Hence the key safe)
Hidden away


Makes total sense to me
Why not add an extra layer of security if you can?
For $20
Can't go wrong

[Sergeant Hartman]

Hey republic.... every time I read your pays I imagine, Willy wonka playing his little whistle, and the oompa loompa singing their songs (in a rhyming voice)

The original movie... which you might be too young to have seen

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Haven't seen it
Anyway
What I'm saying makes total sense!
Coz like I said
If for $20, you can add one extra layer of security
Why the hell not
What's $20?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

[RoginaJack]

Or you could put ]]em on a chain and padlock around your neck

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Nah

I wouldn't wanna ruin my look RoginaJack

You don't wanna mess with perfection!

[RoginaJack]

Ah, too true...

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

[Stix]

Sungazer;
Lol

Being a new shooter
There's a lot to learn brah

If anything, a lot of shooters told me that they have been very impressed with me
As I've gained years of knowledge in the space of 1x month only

"...YAIKS..."

Hey TheFirearmEnthusiast,
I wonder if, going by your time line, & the apparent limitless knowledge of these peers of yours, if you'll be like some other newbies i know---like the one im having issues with at the moment who INSISTS on playing power games with me, telling me i CANT shoot any animals beyond 200 yds.. ....he says HE is allowed to... ...but I am not... ...he is unable to give me an answer as to why... ...he just says 'because we (he means me) dont shoot stuff past 200'... ..see....its because im younger than him, & im on his scene after him...i mean he's been shooting for a good few years now, (still got a few fingers to go before he needs a third hand... )...as opposed to me, rapidly closing in on the big 'half' & has been flinging bullets at fur since before i understood what a 'sentence' was... let alone being able to construct one...

Gees...can you imagine how much his piss burned when a fellow told him that on my 'test outing' i landed a tiny piece of lead in the head of said target animal at just a squidge under 300...

Ok...thats enough...

(yes... im putting.both bragging & modesty aside for a moment here..)...and no...!!....this isnt pointed at you......(well...not entirely...)...this post is all centered around the fact i just cant help but imagine him reading this & wondering if I am actually me, & I am talking about him...

What ever you do TheFirearmEnthusiast, dont be like him ...there are far too many fukwits out there like that, that shouldn't have guns...people who will go out of their way to make sure their ego comes before safety, enjoyment & the respect of others around them.........!!!!!!...

[Sarco]

Simple Answer
NO!
Detailed in Schedule 4 of the Firearms Act 1996 (as amended):
(2A) The key to the container in which the firearm is stored must—
(a) be carried by the holder of the licence; or
(b) be kept securely in a separate room from the container—
when the container is not being accessed.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

I definetely agree Stix

I definetely agree that safety, enjoyment, and respect of others should always come before ego


I truly do cherish my privilege of owning firearms
And so I wanna live up to that privilege
I wanna do all the right things
I wanna make sure that I'm doing everything in my power to be as safe as possible with my firearms

I've read many horrible stories in the United States
Where people found keys to Gun Safes
Managed to get their way into Gun Safes
(And then not long after)
Tragedies followed

I don't see why some people here are having issues with me putting my keys into a key safe?

I don't get what's bothering people with me taking an extra security measure?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Sarco;
That's incorrect
That piece of legislation refers to category C & D only

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Here's what the legislation says regarding category A & B

"SCHEDULE 4
STORAGE REQUIREMENTS
1 Longarm licences for category A and B longarms
(1) The firearm must be stored in a receptacle—
(a) which is constructed of hard wood or steel
that is not easily penetrable; and
(b) which, if it weighs less than 150 kilograms
when it is empty, must be fixed to the frame
of the floor or the wall of the premises where
the firearm is kept in such a manner that it is
not easily removable; and
(c) which, when any firearm is stored in it, is
locked with a lock of sturdy construction.
(2) If more than 15 firearms are stored on the
premises where the firearm is stored, the premises
must be fitted with an intruder alarm system—
(a) the installation, maintenance and operation
of which complies with Australian Standard
2201.1:2007 (as amended from time to time);
and
(b) which, in the event of an intrusion, activates
an audible alarm warning device and an
external visible alarm warning light.
(3) Any cartridge ammunition for the firearm must be
stored in a locked container separate from the
receptacle in which the firearm must be stored."

It does not actually mention keys at all
Only the legislation regarding Category C & D firearms mentions regulations regarding keys

[Sarco]

Whilst I agree there is no mention of storage of keys under Schedule 4, s1, I believe that Schedule 4 s2(A) relates to keys for all sections, however, I suppose to really get this sorted, it would have to (like much legislation), be tested in court.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be the test case should it come about though.

[trekin]

Mate, everyone has an arseh...., I mean opinion on what ticks their boxes for secure storeage, over and above the minimum requirements of their respective States legislation. If what you are doing floats your boat then go for it, there's no need to justify your thought process to anyone else. FWIW, this is how I secure my keys, it ticks all my boxes, and I don't care what anybodies opinions on it are.

keys.JPG (54.55 KiB) Viewed 4308 times

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Sarco;
That's an interesting way of interpreting the law. I honestly never looked at it like that.
I like the fact that you're using 4s2(A) legislation (which is meant to be for cat C&D only) to relate it back to cat A&B firearms.
If you apply legal security measures of cat C&D firearms onto cat A&B firearms. That's just being extra safe. Which obviously can't hurt.
I like your interpretation of the legislation. I will do the same too
The safer the better


Trekin;
That's a lot of keys bro haha
Do you use all those keys to hide your safe keys in here? As a means of distraction? This way if someone does break in they wouldn't know which ones are your safe keys?

I agree with you
As long as you're being as safe as possible
As long as your storage measures/security measures give you peace of mind
Who cares what anybody else things

Personally I'd rather take no risks
I'd rather be a safe as possible
So yeah
My way of doing it is;
- Putting the keys into a key safe
- Then hiding the key safe in another part of the house
- I have security doors as well
- I have an alarm system
- I have motion cameras all around the house etc
I'm being as safe as humanly possible
That's the best that I can do

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

With all the security measures that I have in place

I can honestly say that my firearms are as safe as possible

And it's virtually impossible for me to fail any inspections with all the security measures I have in place

Win-Win


Peace of mind is the most important thing on earth

[Stix]

Republican...
If you want to be so overly safe, & insist on overthinking it...
Buy another 2 key safes...!!

Put one in a semi obvious place with a note saying "wrong safe c**khead...!!..."...

Put another one in a slightly less obvious place, with another note saying "haha--im wasting your time & the cops are in the way now...!!

Hide the third one with the keys in it...

All for only $60

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Stix;
Haha
You've gotta admit that that would be funny

Thieves breaking in
And then seeing keys on the kitchen bench
With a note on it
Reading that note that says:
"Wrong safe c*ckhead!!!!"

C'mon that's a little funny

Even the thieves would getta giggle outta that I reckon

[trekin]

Sarco;
That's an interesting way of interpreting the law. I honestly never looked at it like that.
I like the fact that you're using 4s2(A) legislation (which is meant to be for cat C&D only) to relate it back to cat A&B firearms.
If you apply legal security measures of cat C&D firearms onto cat A&B firearms. That's just being extra safe. Which obviously can't hurt.
I like your interpretation of the legislation. I will do the same too
The safer the better


Trekin;
That's a lot of keys bro haha
Do you use all those keys to hide your safe keys in here? As a means of distraction? This way if someone does break in they wouldn't know which ones are your safe keys?

I agree with you
As long as you're being as safe as possible
As long as your storage measures/security measures give you peace of mind
Who cares what anybody else things

Personally I'd rather take no risks
I'd rather be a safe as possible
So yeah
My way of doing it is;
- Putting the keys into a key safe
- Then hiding the key safe in another part of the house
- I have security doors as well
- I have an alarm system
- I have motion cameras all around the house etc
I'm being as safe as humanly possible
That's the best that I can do

Yeah mate, But only the opportunistic dipshite will worry about trying to find the correct key in that bunch, someone targetting firearms will come prepared. And like you, this is only one of multiple levels of securty in place. Having multiple levels is one thing, but what do you have place to help the LEO catch and convict the scum should the unthinkable happen.

[yoshie]

I have 4 safes all bolted beside each other and on top, one is a digital combo type and i store all the other keys for the other safes inside it, just for convenience. The overide key i keep on my person and another stored in the house. Ive had the batteries go flat on the digital a few times and once the combination was reset to factory and i had to reset it to my old combination. I wouldn't store the only keys inside the safe.

[RoginaJack]

Yep, exactly!

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Yeah
I wouldn't keep my keys in my safe
Coz like I said
(Even though I can change the batteries from the outside when the batteries do go flat)
If the keypad ever malfunctions for whatever reason, then I'm stuck with the keys locked inside the safe
That's why I'd rather put my keys in a dedicated portable key safe hidden in another room of the house
Perfect this way

[Oldbloke]

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/storage-a ... ammunition