Non-licenced person shooting at ranges???

[Paul]

Hi all,

I was in the ACT about 8 months ago and the range officer there at the SSAA range said that in the ACT a non-licensed person can fire a firearm when being supervised by the RO (not sure if t was a particular type of RO).

Now I was at the Melb Shot Show late last year in Oct. and asked about this at a stand though I cant recall exactly which one, but I though they would know and have some credibility, but a person there said that in Vic where I live, a non-licensed person could shoot a firearm at a formal (club, SSAA etc) range as long as they were with a licensed person. My query is; is this correct, or just someone's not-quite-so-accurate interpretation?

Appreciate your guidance as I see it as a suitable way for non-licensed friends to experience rifles and get an idea of if they want a license, or what gun to get.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

[bladeracer]

Need to be under immediate supervision of a licenced shooter, but clubs generally require supervision by a Range Officer, and probably want paperwork.

[Aliqua]

I have asked this question a couple of days ago in the shooting range thread (vic specific).

In short, yes unlicensed can shoot with a licensed at SSAA so long as they are not a restricted person.

Have a look at section 2 of the SSAA rules on the SSAA Vic website for more clarification.

[linkoln]

In short, yes unlicensed can shoot with a licensed at SSAA so long as they are not a restricted person.

That is an important thing to remember. I had a quick look but can't find a list so you need to make sure they aren't prohibited from shooting due to criminal record, AVO or mental illness because they are shooting under your licence and you will be held responsible for them.

[rc42]

The Brisbane SSAA have a rule that in order to supervise an unlicensed person at the range the licensee must have held their license for over a year.
This only applies to Cat A/B firearms, there are additional rules for Cat H

[AussieCapitalist]

QLD you fill out a form. I think its called form 33.

Funny thing is in QLD if you are over 11 but under 18 you can shoot on private property under the supervision of a licence holder. But the second you turn 18 than it becomes illegal and you must use a range.

[Aliqua]

Paul, you can view the rules here - specifically Section 2.9.

https://ssaavic.com.au/wp-content/uploa ... on-3.8.pdf

I didnt include a snippet because it's a short read but one worth familiarising yourself with should you have not been to a VIC SSAA range before and want to shoot there.

The rules are in line with victorian legislation. With regards to a Prohibited Person you can find the definition here under Section 3:

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/ ... 02/s3.html

"prohibited person" means—

(a) a person who is serving a term of imprisonment for—

(i) an indictable offence; or

(ii) an assault; or

(iii) an offence under the Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981 ; or

(iiia) an offence under the Control of Weapons Act 1990 —

or, in relation to a person—

(iv) not more than 15 years have expired since the person finished serving a term of imprisonment of 5 years or more for such an offence; or

(v) not more than 5 years have expired since the person finished serving a term of imprisonment of less than 5 years for such an offence; or

(b) a person who is serving a term of imprisonment in another State or a Territory for an offence of a corresponding nature to an offence listed in paragraph (a) or in relation to a person—

(i) not more than 15 years have expired since the person finished serving a term of imprisonment in another State or a Territory of 5 years or more for such an offence; or

(ii) or not more than 5 years have expired since that person finished serving a term of imprisonment in another State or a Territory of less than 5 years for such an offence; or

(ba) a person—

(i) who is serving a term of imprisonment for an offence under section 321 or 321A of the Crimes Act 1958 ; or

(ii) in relation to whom, not more than 10 years have expired since the person finished serving a term of imprisonment for an offence specified in subparagraph (i); or

(bb) a person—

(i) who is serving a term of imprisonment in another State or a Territory of the Commonwealth for an offence of a corresponding nature to an offence specified in paragraph (ba)(i); or

(ii) in relation to whom, not more than 10 years have expired since the person finished serving a term of imprisonment in another State or a Territory of the Commonwealth for an offence specified in paragraph (ba)(i); or

(c) a person who is subject to—

(i) a final order under the Family Violence Protection Act 2008 , a final interstate DVO or a final recognised DVO that does not include conditions cancelling or revoking a licence, permit or authority under this Act or, in the case of a DVO, a corresponding law of the jurisdiction in which the DVO was made; or

(ia) a final order under the Family Violence Protection Act 2008 , a final interstate DVO or a final recognised DVO that does include conditions cancelling or revoking a licence, permit or authority under this Act or, in the case of a DVO, a corresponding law of the jurisdiction in which the DVO was made; or

(ib) a final order under the Personal Safety Intervention Orders Act 2010 that does not cancel or suspend a licence, permit or authority under this Act, or an order of a corresponding nature made in another State or a Territory; or

(ic) a final order under the Personal Safety Intervention Orders Act 2010 that does cancel or suspend a licence, permit or authority under this Act, or an order of a corresponding nature made in another State or a Territory; or

(ii) an old community-based order, within the meaning of clause 1 of Schedule 3 to the Sentencing Act 1991 ; or

(iia) a community correction order, within the meaning of the Sentencing Act 1991 , that has a supervision condition attached under section 48E of the Sentencing Act 1991 ; or

(iii) a supervision order under section 26 or 38ZH of the Crimes (Mental Impairment and Unfitness to be Tried) Act 1997 —

or, in relation to a person, not more than 5 years have expired since the person was subject to such an order; or

(ca) a declared individual within the meaning of the Criminal Organisations Control Act 2012 ; or

(cb) a person to whom a control order (within the meaning of the Criminal Organisations Control Act 2012 ) applies; or

(cc) a person who is subject to a supervision order or an interim supervision order under the Serious Offenders Act 2018 that—

(i) suspends, cancels or revokes a licence, permit or authority under this Act; or

(ii) does not suspend, cancel or revoke a licence, permit or authority under this Act;

(d) a person, in relation to whom, not more than 12 months have expired since that person was found guilty by a court, whether in Victoria or in another State or a Territory, of—

(i) an offence against this Act, in relation to which it was open to the court to impose a term of imprisonment; or

(ii) an offence against any other Act involving the possession or use of firearms and in relation to which it was open to the court to impose a term of imprisonment; or

(iii) an indictable offence—

and who is not, by virtue of the operation of any other paragraph of this definition, a prohibited person; or

(e) any person who is of a prescribed class of persons;

I hope that is a sufficient answer for you.

[Paul]

Thanks Aliqua, I only saw your similar post after I'd posted mine.

Thanks to you other folk for responses also.

One thing I have yet to find is the exact Legislation regarding this. I understand that the SSAA may have their own rules, but does anyone know where the Vic. Legislation states what the go is? And I emphasize the VIC, part, not planning on a shoot in Qld very soon , and yes, quite odd how that legislation changes over 18. Maybe free spirit kicks in then and ANYTHING can happen as opposed to a nice complaint and obedient <18yo Lol.

regards,
Paul

[Aliqua]

Read that link I posted on the firearms act. It's in there.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Also note that what the ACT person told you is most probably true for ACT, as every state or territory might have different rules

[Aliqua]

Thanks Aliqua, I only saw your similar post after I'd posted mine.

Thanks to you other folk for responses also.

One thing I have yet to find is the exact Legislation regarding this. I understand that the SSAA may have their own rules, but does anyone know where the Vic. Legislation states what the go is? And I emphasize the VIC, part, not planning on a shoot in Qld very soon , and yes, quite odd how that legislation changes over 18. Maybe free spirit kicks in then and ANYTHING can happen as opposed to a nice complaint and obedient <18yo Lol.

regards,
Paul

Legislation simply states that unlicensed cannot handle/shoot ANYWHERE with the exemption of sporting clubs. If you want to read into the firearms act you'll have to find the 'exemptions' of unlicensed persons shooting at sporting clubs etc...

That's the best I can offer you before I'm obliged to charge you legal fees

[No1Mk3]

G'day Paul,
The part of Victorian Law that allows a non-licenced person over 18 to use a CatA/B firearm under direct (that means you cannot shoot alongside but must actually watch) supervision only at an approved range can be found in the Firearms Act 1996 v.95, Part 2, Division 10, Section 54, Sub-Section (1). It will specify the circumstances to found in Schedule 3 of the Act, Item 5, Cheers

[Paul]

G'day Paul,
The part of Victorian Law that allows a non-licenced person over 18 to use a CatA/B firearm under direct (that means you cannot shoot alongside but must actually watch) supervision only at an approved range can be found in the Firearms Act 1996 v.95, Part 2, Division 10, Section 54, Sub-Section (1). It will specify the circumstances to found in Schedule 3 of the Act, Item 5, Cheers

Thanks No1Mk3, this is exactly what I was after, now a happy camper with the primary source to check. One thing I am curious about is the use fo the term "receiving instruction". Does this imply firing the firearm? I could not locate a definition of this in the ACT. Being nit picky here, but better to be exact in these cases than 'loose'.

Thanks Aliqua for your follow up too (thumbs up).

Cheers,

Paul

[bladeracer]

G'day Paul,
The part of Victorian Law that allows a non-licenced person over 18 to use a CatA/B firearm under direct (that means you cannot shoot alongside but must actually watch) supervision only at an approved range can be found in the Firearms Act 1996 v.95, Part 2, Division 10, Section 54, Sub-Section (1). It will specify the circumstances to found in Schedule 3 of the Act, Item 5, Cheers

Thanks No1Mk3, this is exactly what I was after, now a happy camper with the primary source to check. One thing I am curious about is the use fo the term "receiving instruction". Does this imply firing the firearm? I could not locate a definition of this in the ACT. Being nit picky here, but better to be exact in these cases than 'loose'.

Thanks Aliqua for your follow up too (thumbs up).

Cheers,

Paul

Any handling of firearms or ammo needs to be under immediate supervision of a licenced shooter, and only at approved ranges.

[Paul]

G'day Paul,
The part of Victorian Law that allows a non-licensed person over 18 to use a CatA/B firearm under direct (that means you cannot shoot alongside but must actually watch) supervision only at an approved range can be found in the Firearms Act 1996 v.95, Part 2, Division 10, Section 54, Sub-Section (1). It will specify the circumstances to found in Schedule 3 of the Act, Item 5, Cheers

Thanks No1Mk3, this is exactly what I wanted. Now a happy camper as I have the primary source . I am curious about one thing though as Ive not been able to specifically find it as yet in the ACT, does "receiving instruction" imply or include the non-licensed person actually firing the firearm?

Thansk again (and for followup from others).

Regards,

Paul

[bladeracer]

G'day Paul,
The part of Victorian Law that allows a non-licensed person over 18 to use a CatA/B firearm under direct (that means you cannot shoot alongside but must actually watch) supervision only at an approved range can be found in the Firearms Act 1996 v.95, Part 2, Division 10, Section 54, Sub-Section (1). It will specify the circumstances to found in Schedule 3 of the Act, Item 5, Cheers

Thanks No1Mk3, this is exactly what I wanted. Now a happy camper as I have the primary source . I am curious about one thing though as Ive not been able to specifically find it as yet in the ACT, does "receiving instruction" imply or include the non-licensed person actually firing the firearm?

Thansk again (and for followup from others).

Regards,

Paul

Nope. Only licenced people can ever handle firearms or ammo, regardless of whether they're actually intending to do any shooting.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Paul,
Yes, it means the person is being instructed in the "use" of the firearm, which includes the practical component of actually firing the rifle. This is covered in Column 2 of Item 5 of Schedule 3, "When carrying or using a longarm of the category specified in the supervisors licence" etc. So under 5A, as a pistol shooter, I can let you use my handguns under my direct supervision even though you haven't a licence nor pistol club membership, just with handguns there is further regulatory BS where you need to fill out a form for LRD called a "Notification of Receiving Instruction" or NORI for short which I as instructor am obligated to send to LRD. I believe a similar form exists in other States for rifles as well, but fortunately we here in Vic don't have one for longarms, just the resytriction that it must happen at a range only, Cheers.

[Paul]

Thanks No1Mk3 for the clarification. I did look at that after my post and thought that by the word 'using' in column 2 as you point out that it would mean firing.

Im pretty comfortable now that I can take my friend/s to the range to introduce them to our sport and to try diff. calibers to guide their purchases.

Thanks all.

Paul

[Aliqua]

Just speak to the RO when you get there and let them know. That would be the right/respectful thing to do.

No1mk3, great research. I'm impressed (and now I have to admit to my laziness publicly!) Hehe.

[Mick375hh]

Is there a minimum age for a non licensed shooter to be instructed ?

[bladeracer]

Is there a minimum age for a non licensed shooter to be instructed ?

12 in Victoria.

[Mick375hh]

Thanks

[MRadd]

Hello everyone,
The situation is: a friend of mine a long-time A/B/H license and firearm holder, currently has his licence suspended because of DVO was issued against him. There was no final order yet (s**t happened just a month ago). As I understood because there was no final court hearing and no final order released, he is not a "prohibited person"
The question is: Is he allowed to visit the shooting club's range and shoot from someone's else handgun? Under the supervision of a currently licensed person, with NORI completed.
Thank you

[bladeracer]

Hello everyone,
The situation is: a friend of mine a long-time A/B/H license and firearm holder, currently has his licence suspended because of DVO was issued against him. There was no final order yet (s**t happened just a month ago). As I understood because there was no final court hearing and no final order released, he is not a "prohibited person"
The question is: Is he allowed to visit the shooting club's range and shoot from someone's else handgun? Under the supervision of a currently licensed person, with NORI completed.
Thank you

Well, I thought this would be fairly straightforward...until I looked it up.
You automatically attain the status of Prohibited Person as soon as you meet one of the requirements given in the definition within the Firearms Act, nobody else has to inform you of such status.
The NORI declaration asks only whether you are a Prohibited Person, thus the onus is on you to "know" whether you are a PP.
I agree that the Act constantly states "final order", thus he would not comply with the requirements, but it is pretty long-winded.
https://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/vic/consol_act/fa1996102/

I think if there is any possibility that he _might_ be considered a PP he really should talk to a lawyer to clarify his position. Legal AID may well be able to sort it for him.