What's a "Public Rd"

[Fionn]

I happen to be looking at this right now trying to help a mate that has some inconsiderate shooters nearby.
Sending him the relevant parts of the Regs which includes the section about not target shooting within 100m of a "road", leading me to check the definition of a "road" under the Road Safety Act.

A "road" is an area open to the public for the purposes of driving or riding motor vehicles. So it wouldn't include a walking or bicycle track, which does seem odd to me with regard to shooting.

You would be better looking at the definition of a road under the Road Management Act, as the Road Safety Act is about the providing for safe, efficient and equitable road use; and to set out the general obligations of road users in relation to responsible road use.

Not what defines a road as such.

[bladeracer]

I happen to be looking at this right now trying to help a mate that has some inconsiderate shooters nearby.
Sending him the relevant parts of the Regs which includes the section about not target shooting within 100m of a "road", leading me to check the definition of a "road" under the Road Safety Act.

A "road" is an area open to the public for the purposes of driving or riding motor vehicles. So it wouldn't include a walking or bicycle track, which does seem odd to me with regard to shooting.

You would be better looking at the definition of a road under the Road Management Act, as the Road Safety Act is about the providing for safe, efficient and equitable road use; and to set out the general obligations of road users in relation to responsible road use.

Not what defines a road as such.

Possibly, but the Firearms Regulations specifically links to the definition in the Road Safety Act.

[Fionn]

Possibly, but the Firearms Regulations specifically links to the definition in the Road Safety Act.

Yes but in the circumstances where its not obviously a road, like we have been discussing the road safety act points to the Road Management Act.

[stihl88]

Possibly, but the Firearms Regulations specifically links to the definition in the Road Safety Act.

Yes but in the circumstances where its not obviously a road, like we have been discussing the road safety act points to the Road Management Act.

The Road Management Act is more about the declaration/ownership and management of roads i.e. VicRoads, Councils, Forestry etc. however reading between the two Acts (Road Safety & Road Management) they both define the meaning of a Public Road as equally as each other in a round about way...

[stihl88]

So now that we've pretty much covered "Public Roads" is there any final determination on minimum land size someone can hunt or "sight" in their firearms? I've seen several threads on the topic but nothing definitive in my eyes and the Regs/Acts seem devoid of any definition on this topic.

So a good place to start would be, what's to stop my uncle from sighting in an air rifle on his suburban block?

[bladeracer]

So now that we've pretty much covered "Public Roads" is there any final determination on minimum land size someone can hunt or "sight" in their firearms? I've seen several threads on the topic but nothing definitive in my eyes and the Regs/Acts seem devoid of any definition on this topic.

So a good place to start would be, what's to stop my uncle from sighting in an air rifle on his suburban block?

There is no minimum land size in any state. It has to be safe to shoot there. Remember, in Australia it has to be safe for the user as well. Discharging any firearm, including air-rifles or paintball, in a suburban block, without additional permits, _may_ be able to be done safely, but is it really worth finding out in court? Some states might allow it, but I'm not aware of any. Most require "rural" land. To shoot in built-up areas generally requires permits for pest control or reenactment and other such things, or range licences. There are also external factors that might affect whether it is allowed, like excessive noise, or if there's a school down the street, or a party of nuns having a corroboree in the park. If any member of the public calls Police and says they are fearful of your activity then you can expect a visit, that may be fine, or it may not.

Some people have bought an empty block near a friend, and they come out on weekends and shoot from dawn until dark. He's pretty laid back, they're not doing any actual harm and he's happy to let them live their best lives. But his neighbour is an old lady who has just lost her husband, and she is finding it upsetting. So he asked me to find out the regs around it and perhaps we can get the DFO to go and have a word with them. Maybe get better organised so they're shooting in blocks of an hour or two then having a break. What they're doing is legal, no qualms about that. But if there are more than five people shooting, which he's not sure about as he hasn't visited, then they need to abide by the additional regs regarding target shooting.
They can't shoot within 250m of any dwelling without permission - this looks like it might be an issue for them, but only if there are more than five shooters.
They can't shoot within 100m of a road - they're probably okay here, but I'd have to go out for a look to be sure, there are a bunch of roads coming together there.
Shooters must be stationary
It must be during daylight
Shooters must not consume alcohol or drugs (not consume, regardless of how much)
The shoot must not be advertised
Shooters must not be paying any consideration to the property owner
And, Police must be notified 48hrs prior to the event - this one is unlikely so we need to find out how many shooters there are, and the simplest/safest way to do so is to ask the DFO to visit.

[stihl88]

Yeah just as I suspected and good old common sense plays a major role here.

As much as i hate to say it there's room for some regulatory "clarity" to be introduced on these topics, if anything just to take out the grey areas. They go to great lengths to cover off everything else however when it comes to these grey areas we're often left confused and/or it's open to interpretation leading to unsafe situations and/or potential penalisation for an activity we thought ok but law enforcement may just decide to interpret and determine otherwise.

Yeah that's a tough one, it all depend on the type of shooters you're dealing with. If they're of the descent common sense type then they'll happily oblige to any requests to quell the noise but if they're arrogant and uncouth shooters who don't align with our values if you know what I mean then you might stir up a Bull Ants nest if not handled correctly. It's probably just a matter of gauging them first then applying the appropriate approach hoping that the locals can apply some "local laws" if needed.

[bladeracer]

Yeah just as I suspected and good old common sense plays a major role here.

As much as i hate to say it there's room for some regulatory "clarity" to be introduced on these topics, if anything just to take out the grey areas. They go to great lengths to cover off everything else however when it comes to these grey areas we're often left confused and/or it's open to interpretation leading to unsafe situations and/or potential penalisation for an activity we thought ok but law enforcement may just decide to interpret and determine otherwise.

Yeah that's a tough one, it all depend on the type of shooters you're dealing with. If they're of the descent common sense type then they'll happily oblige to any requests to quell the noise but if they're arrogant and uncouth shooters who don't align with our values if you know what I mean then you might stir up a Bull Ants nest if not handled correctly. It's probably just a matter of gauging them first then applying the appropriate approach hoping that the locals can apply some "local laws" if needed.

It used to be that if the property was zoned rural you could shoot on it, but they did away with rural zoning in Victoria in 2018 (NSW as well I think), so the firearm regs had to be altered to suit. Victoria still allows us to carry out lawful activities on our own property, and public land, as long as we try not to encroach into other peoples' lawful activities. Most states don't allow us to shoot recreationally on private property (you can hunt animals, zero rifles, test ammo, and pattern guns, but that's all - you can't just go out to enjoy some shooting), and I don't think any other state allows us to shoot recreationally on public land any more, most don't even allow hunting on public land.

With my friend's situation we're giving them the benefit of the doubt. We doubt they're being obnoxious, they're just not thinking about their neighbours listening to hour after hour of centrefire rifle shooting. It's very dense bush so it's possible they don't even know there are neighbours so close to them. Nobody wants to cause trouble for them, but it'd be nice to have Police let them know and they can reduce the amount of hours that they're shooting.

[Fionn]

So a good place to start would be, what's to stop my uncle from sighting in an air rifle on his suburban block?

It depends, nothing under firearms laws, if its not done in a dangerous manner.

The dangerous manner is the tricky bit.

[Fionn]

the simplest/safest way to do so is to ask the DFO to visit.

That is the best course of action to take.

[Fionn]

It used to be that if the property was zoned rural you could shoot on it, but they did away with rural zoning in Victoria in 2018 (NSW as well I think), so the firearm regs had to be altered to suit.

I don't believe that has ever been the case in Victoria.

[Sarco]

I would have though that Pt3 s8 (c) of the Regulations is very clear and has been quoted earlier in this thread.

Without permission of neighbours with dwellings within 250M of "the suburban backyard" a firearm cannot be discharged

Though this is getting away from the question asked in the original post.

[bladeracer]

I would have though that Pt3 s8 (c) of the Regulations is very clear and has been quoted earlier in this thread.

Without permission of neighbours with dwellings within 250M of "the suburban backyard" a firearm cannot be discharged

Though this is getting away from the question asked in the original post.

That restriction _only_ applies to target shooting falling within the realm of more than five shooters _and_ for more than three hours, it is not a general requirement to shooting or hunting on private property.

[Oldbloke]

OK, I think this is a fair summary of the original question.

HUNTING, SHOOTING ON PUBLIC LAND IN VICTORIA

If shooting near a road you just need to ensure you are doing it in a safe manner.

Don't carry a loaded firearm on or across a public road. Empty means nothing in chamber or magazine. A ML is considered loaded with powder and ball only. Don't shoot on or across a public road.

WHAT IS A PUBLIC ROAD?

If it is on a 4x4 on a toppo map it's probably a road. If you can drive on it & its on public land it's likely a road. If its named, formed, and maintained its a road. A road includes a few meters either side.

TARGET SHOOTING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY

(More than 5 shooters)
You must not shoot within 100 meters of a road or 250 meters of a neighbours dwelling/house without permission.

GENERAL

You must not carry a loaded firearm on private property without permission of the owner. Projectiles must not enter or pass over private property without permission of owner.

[Fionn]

Not bad Oldbloke, the only one you are missing is the catch all offence - A person must not use a firearm in a dangerous manner.