Hunting on foot.

[bladeracer]

I'm curious about laws around carrying a rifle on foot in public.
We have three separate blocks, but within walking distance of each other.
All are on a fairly major rural road, both sides.
Generally I take the ute but it'd be nice sometimes to just walk between the blocks, via the road (the paddocks gets pretty muddy which is why I take the ute).

I know I'd have to be unloaded, and probably need to conceal the rifle, but what would the exact requirements be?
I'm sure there must be hunters that don't have driver's licences and or vehicles.
Is a rifle bag slung over the shoulder sufficient?
Do I even need to conceal it if I'm actually carrying it (as opposed to being in a vehicle)?
In a sensible world I would think simply carrying an unloaded rifle without waving it about would be sufficient, just as it used to be.

[Grandadbushy]

Well bladeracer mate i move around a few properties by access of a main road , some only 300yds from gate to gate some a couple klm so awhile back i asked the local constabulary where i stood if i left the rifle out of the case whilst crossing or traveling to the next gate , he told me it would be rare but if i was pulled up i could be fined for traveling in a public place without properly securing a fire arm, a couple of years ago a station owner was caught crossing the main road 20mtr for having a rifle in a rack behind the seat in a cruiser, he was just unlucky they were doing random checks because of stealing in that area, mainly fuel. i don't know if this is the norm but you'd be on a main road, but in a bag and unloaded probably would be ok depends on who catches you i suppose , i'm probably no use to you but it will give you something to think about.

[womble]

You have a lawful excuse.
However, the 300 police cars that arrive on the scene within 5 minutes in Victoria will not investigate your reason for carrying until after they shoot you and probably each other in all the excitement.

[Member-Deleted]

You have a lawful excuse.
However, the 300 police cars that arrive on the scene within 5 minutes in Victoria will not investigate your reason for carrying until after they shoot you and probably each other in all the excitement.

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
The description "fairly major" would ring alarm bells with me for open carry, it only takes 1 rat driving past to call the cops in a blue funk. The cops will attend, check your licence and authority to hunt, then tell you to cover the rifle whilst you walk down the road. Gun bag means no issues at all. Just remember that a loaded magazine in your pocket will count as a loaded firearm, so I used to have a small ammo wallet to put the rounds in whenever I wasn't on the hunting ground. just as a caution, a mate crossed a mountain dirt road, right up the back of Club Terrace, not a house within miles not even a logging coup, just as the jacks came along on anti-tree hugger patrol. Cost a couple of months loss of guns and licence until the court case, no conviction and $500 in the poor box plus legal fees, Cheers.

[Oldbloke]

Lol. Same problem I have.

What's a public place.jpg (539.3 KiB) Viewed 5293 times

Publics place.jpg (587.02 KiB) Viewed 5292 times

Very, very restrictive.

And, yes. Get spotted and the boys in blue will arrive as quick as a flash. And watch out if he got a knock back that morning.

[Farmerpete]

Are you a primary producer or pro shooter from memory in Queensland you don't have to unload when "crossing" a road during an active cull
walking down the road for a bit might be a stretch of the exemption i would contact weapons licensing via email and if they allow it keep a copy of the correspondence while walking down the road.

[Oldbloke]

Are you a primary producer or pro shooter from memory in Queensland you don't have to unload when "crossing" a road during an active cull
walking down the road for a bit might be a stretch of the exemption i would contact weapons licensing via email and if they allow it keep a copy of the correspondence while walking down the road.

Good idea. Or just ask the local boy in blue. Not the same but the personal touch often helps. Get to know him.

[bladeracer]

Are you a primary producer or pro shooter from memory in Queensland you don't have to unload when "crossing" a road during an active cull
walking down the road for a bit might be a stretch of the exemption i would contact weapons licensing via email and if they allow it keep a copy of the correspondence while walking down the road.

Interesting but no, I am a Primary Producer but am not licenced that way.

Yes, I'm thinking some emails to my local station and to Firearms is not a bad idea.

[bladeracer]

Are you a primary producer or pro shooter from memory in Queensland you don't have to unload when "crossing" a road during an active cull
walking down the road for a bit might be a stretch of the exemption i would contact weapons licensing via email and if they allow it keep a copy of the correspondence while walking down the road.

Good idea. Or just ask the local boy in blue. Not the same but the personal touch often helps. Get to know him.

I don't really know any local LEO's other than my DFO, and he went to school with Rose's siblings so knows the family very well. I get on well with him, but he intimately knows my background, local officers probably don't have a clue who I am.

[bladeracer]

You have a lawful excuse.
However, the 300 police cars that arrive on the scene within 5 minutes in Victoria will not investigate your reason for carrying until after they shoot you and probably each other in all the excitement.

Yep, and the lever-action .22LR and half-box of CCI Standard Velocity hits the news as "...high-capacity military-grade assault rifle and large stockpile of ammunition...", just what I'd like to avoid

[winton]

G'day bladeracer,
The description "fairly major" would ring alarm bells with me for open carry, it only takes 1 rat driving past to call the cops in a blue funk. The cops will attend, check your licence and authority to hunt, then tell you to cover the rifle whilst you walk down the road. Gun bag means no issues at all. Just remember that a loaded magazine in your pocket will count as a loaded firearm, so I used to have a small ammo wallet to put the rounds in whenever I wasn't on the hunting ground. just as a caution, a mate crossed a mountain dirt road, right up the back of Club Terrace, not a house within miles not even a logging coup, just as the jacks came along on anti-tree hugger patrol. Cost a couple of months loss of guns and licence until the court case, no conviction and $500 in the poor box plus legal fees, Cheers.

Can you supply any regs for VicPols interpretation that a loaded mag in you pocket counts as a loaded firearm? What about in your backpack? It just doesn't make sense to me. Where else are you going to put a mag if not in your pocket? Seems like a stretch.

Also, crossing a mountain dirt road with a rifle slung over your shoulders counts as an offence? Wow. Was it rangers that caught him or police?

Your friend obviously won his case, but the experience is pretty much par for the course here in Vic.

[Fionn]

Can you supply any regs for VicPols interpretation that a loaded mag in you pocket counts as a loaded firearm? What about in your backpack? It just doesn't make sense to me. Where else are you going to put a mag if not in your pocket? Seems like a stretch.

Section 130(7) of the Firearms Act 1996.

[Fionn]

probably need to conceal the rifle, but what would the exact requirements be?

There is no law requiring concealment of the firearm.

[bladeracer]

Can you supply any regs for VicPols interpretation that a loaded mag in you pocket counts as a loaded firearm? What about in your backpack? It just doesn't make sense to me. Where else are you going to put a mag if not in your pocket? Seems like a stretch.

Section 130(7) of the Firearms Act 1996.

I can't see anything there stating that a loaded magazine that is not inserted into the firearm is counted as a loaded firearm.

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It specifically states that it is only considered loaded if operation of a part of the firearm transfers ammunition into the chamber or barrel.

"S. 130(7) inserted by No. 2/2018 s. 25(6).

(7) In this section—

"loaded", in relation to a firearm, includes the following—

(a) a firearm that has cartridge ammunition in its chamber or barrel;

(b) a firearm that is fitted with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition, if the cartridge ammunition can be fitted to the chamber or barrel of the firearm by the operation of another part of the firearm."

[bladeracer]

probably need to conceal the rifle, but what would the exact requirements be?

There is no law requiring concealment of the firearm.

What if walking between properties is considered "transporting" a firearm, rather than "using" a firearm.

[Member-Deleted]

"(b) a firearm that is fitted with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition, if the cartridge ammunition can be fitted to the chamber or barrel of the firearm by the operation of another part of the firearm."

I don't really understand this, can anyone provide me with an example?

[bladeracer]

"(b) a firearm that is fitted with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition, if the cartridge ammunition can be fitted to the chamber or barrel of the firearm by the operation of another part of the firearm."

I don't really understand this, can anyone provide me with an example?

If a loaded magazine is installed in the firearm, then operation of a part of the firearm can transfer that ammunition into the chamber - cycling the slide, pump, bolt, etc. If the mag is not installed then no operation of any part of the firearm can transfer a cartridge into the chamber.

[Member-Deleted]

"(b) a firearm that is fitted with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition, if the cartridge ammunition can be fitted to the chamber or barrel of the firearm by the operation of another part of the firearm."

I don't really understand this, can anyone provide me with an example?

If a loaded magazine is installed in the firearm, then operation of a part of the firearm can transfer that ammunition into the chamber - cycling the slide, pump, bolt, etc. If the mag is not installed then no operation of any part of the firearm can transfer a cartridge into the chamber.

Like a loaded internal magazine? So a loaded Enfield would be considered loaded? Haha or any firearm with a loaded magazine inserted?

[bladeracer]

"(b) a firearm that is fitted with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition, if the cartridge ammunition can be fitted to the chamber or barrel of the firearm by the operation of another part of the firearm."

I don't really understand this, can anyone provide me with an example?

If a loaded magazine is installed in the firearm, then operation of a part of the firearm can transfer that ammunition into the chamber - cycling the slide, pump, bolt, etc. If the mag is not installed then no operation of any part of the firearm can transfer a cartridge into the chamber.

Like a loaded internal magazine? So a loaded Enfield would be considered loaded? Haha or any firearm with a loaded magazine inserted?

Lee-Enfield Rifles have detachable mags, so yes, if you have a loaded mag in the rifle it is loaded. If you have the mag not installed in the rifle then it is not loaded.

I guess if you had a magazine cut-off you could try to explain that with the mag cut-off in place, operating the bolt cannot transfer a cartridge from the magazine to the chamber. But operation of the cut-off and the bolt will, and the Act doesn't state only one action is allowed.

Basically, it's way better to err on the side of caution rather than have to win in court to get your licence back months later - unload the magazine, although it can be painful with some designs, like Ruger 10-22 mags, or at least put the loaded mag in a closed pack or pouch rather than a pocket.

[Member-Deleted]

I wonder if speed loaders would be classified as magazines.

[bladeracer]

I wonder if speed loaders would be classified as magazines.

Nope, nor stripper clips.

[winton]

"a firearm that is fitted with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition"

A loaded magazine in the pocket does not make a firearm that is "fitted" with a magazine or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition. It doesn't say that it "can be fitted" it just says "fitted" which implies that it needs to be a loaded magazine inserted into the firearm.

Obviously not going to stop any police officer liberally interpreting this as they see fit. Its only going to take you 3 months and loads of lawyer cash to get your firearms back.

[Member-Deleted]

"or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition"

What would that mean?

[Member-Deleted]

I wonder if speed loaders would be classified as magazines.

Nope, nor stripper clips.

How long could you leave ammo in stripper clips before they rust and what not?

[bladeracer]

"or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition"

What would that mean?

Stripper clips, en-bloc clips, moon-clips, speedloaders for revolvers and tube mags, and other devices that hold ammunition ready for loading a firearm.

[bladeracer]

I wonder if speed loaders would be classified as magazines.

Nope, nor stripper clips.

How long could you leave ammo in stripper clips before they rust and what not?

Several lifetimes, they generally are not going to rust under normal storage conditions.

[Fionn]

I can't see anything there stating that a loaded magazine that is not inserted into the firearm is counted as a loaded firearm.

There isn't, Winton wanted to know what was classed as loaded.

In a recognised deer habitat the laws are different, the magazine can't be loaded.

[Fionn]

probably need to conceal the rifle, but what would the exact requirements be?

There is no law requiring concealment of the firearm.

What if walking between properties is considered "transporting" a firearm, rather than "using" a firearm.

No different, you are required to make sure the firearm is secure and is not dangerous and take reasonable precautions to ensure that the firearm is not lost or stolen.

[Member-Deleted]

"or other device that is loaded with cartridge ammunition"

What would that mean?

Stripper clips, en-bloc clips, moon-clips, speedloaders for revolvers and tube mags, and other devices that hold ammunition ready for loading a firearm.

So it kinda says in a way that magazines and other devices loaded with cartridge ammo is considered loaded.