Animal trespass laws - Victoria

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Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 1:16 pm

Trying to help somebody out but having trouble finding relevant legislation.
He wants me to come and clear out some sheep. The animals "belong" to a neighbour on the other side of a pine plantation. I use "belong" in it's legal meaning. However, he gave up years ago on trying to keep them fenced within his own property, so they simply roam around as they wish. When he very occasionally wants meat, he shoots one. To date, they've merely been an annoyance. But now part of the plantation is being revegetated back to native bush, and these sheep are creating a very significant cost to protect the seedlings, a cost that virtually wipes out the grant money that should be spent on the seedlings.

Shooting is prohibited within the site, but the sheep do also venture into surrounding properties where I can shoot them.

We are sure we're legally allowed to cull them as the "owner" has been made aware of his responsibilities numerous times, over many years, regarding proper fencing and containment.

I know we can cull them if we can show that they are damaging infrastructure or injuring livestock, but they're not really doing that. None of the surrounding properties run stock, so they don't have, or require, stock-grade fencing. They have done some damage to seedlings however.

I'm hoping somebody here might be able give me some direction to find relevant legislation. Specifically, our responsibilities under law, before beginning culling action.

It was suggested that we try trapping a few, cart them off to the local authorities, and have them take it up with the owner to ensure he rectified his fencing. This might work, but is distasteful to all, it would be very expensive and unreasonably punitive on the owner. There is no animosity as this has been occurring for years without affecting anybody, until now.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 1:23 pm

just round them up onto a trailer and sell them, simple.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 1:24 pm

depending on the sheep they could be fetching as much as $250 a head at the moment, seems retarded beyond all belief that you would want to just outright shoot them.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by No1Mk3 » 26 May 2021, 1:42 pm

G'day bladeracer,
This is a Local Council matter, the landowner should contact his local Ranger and inform them there is stock at large. Rangers are authorized under the Impounding of Livestock Act 1994 to deal with these animals. If the owner of the sheep is aware of the issue, and is willing to put it in writing, then rounding up and selling of the sheep and splitting the money after deducting costs would be the best bet, as ZaineB pointed out there could be a few quid in this, Cheers.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 2:00 pm

ZaineB wrote:depending on the sheep they could be fetching as much as $250 a head at the moment, seems retarded beyond all belief that you would want to just outright shoot them.


They wouldn't be wasted.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 2:03 pm

ZaineB wrote:just round them up onto a trailer and sell them, simple.


I think that would be a major undertaking, they have been roaming for more than one generation and not approachable at all, as in hundreds of meters. It would be very, very difficult to handle them. Their wool is so thick I'm not all sure what it might do to a bullet, I'd head-shoot them to be sure.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 2:16 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day bladeracer,
This is a Local Council matter, the landowner should contact his local Ranger and inform them there is stock at large. Rangers are authorized under the Impounding of Livestock Act 1994 to deal with these animals. If the owner of the sheep is aware of the issue, and is willing to put it in writing, then rounding up and selling of the sheep and splitting the money after deducting costs would be the best bet, as ZaineB pointed out there could be a few quid in this, Cheers.


Unfortunately, the owner prefers the status quo, he wants to leave it as is. He has no interest in selling the animals as he "keeps" them for his own consumption. He basically bought a few dozen sheep many decades ago, probably eats two or three a year, and has never paid for meat since. But he certainly doesn't have facilities to keep a dozen or more butchered animals for himself in one go. Having seen the property, I also doubt he has the finances to re-fence even part of the property to sheep-standard, and they do keep his grass well cut as a bonus, so no slashing every season. Basically, he considers them to be his stock, and that they should be allowed to roam as they always have done.

As I said, the consensus is that they don't want to bring him legal trouble if it can be avoided. But, the other landowners also don't want to bring legal problems down on themselves by dealing with the problem in haste. The ideal I think is to shoot them and distribute the meat around the neighbours involved.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by deye243 » 26 May 2021, 2:27 pm

He would not get away with that around here couple of phone calls to the council would be taking care of QuickSmart problem is your friendly Status Quo neighbour would not be that for long as he would be liable for the cost they are damaging infrastructure your seedlings
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 3:09 pm

if they are not shorn or crotched regularly that is cause for the RSPCA to have penalties brought against the guy, perhaps tell him that if they arent adequately housed (fenced in), and regularly shorn, drenched, needled, crotched, if they arent marked that they are as good as not his.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 3:29 pm

ZaineB wrote:if they are not shorn or crotched regularly that is cause for the RSPCA to have penalties brought against the guy, perhaps tell him that if they arent adequately housed (fenced in), and regularly shorn, drenched, needled, crotched, if they arent marked that they are as good as not his.


Yes, which is what we want to avoid. Getting on the wrong side of a neighbour lasts a lifetime...
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by Oldbloke » 26 May 2021, 3:51 pm

This stuff is always a bit like catch 22. You can't win.

Not sure this is of use. However my understanding is if they are loose on un-leased public land you can capture or shoot if you want. Treat the same as pests. Cant quote the Act though.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 4:10 pm

Oldbloke wrote:This stuff is always a bit like catch 22. You can't win.

Not sure this is of use. However my understanding is if they are loose on un-leased public land you can capture or shoot if you want. Treat the same as pests. Cant quote the Act though.


The plantation was a lease but is being returned to National Park.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 4:25 pm

well whatever the arrangment is, sounds very odd and dumb to me all over, but the person who wants the pest animals out, if not wanting to be direct and assertive with the other landowner, should just go ahead and fence off their property properly at their own expense, then set about treating any livestock still on the place after as their own. if the other bloke doesnt like that they will be fenced in there, he has that time to come and get them out. if he fails to act, that is his fault. really I cant see how someone would not have already addressed the fence situation if good biosecurity is their aim.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 4:32 pm

ZaineB wrote:well whatever the arrangment is, sounds very odd and dumb to me all over, but the person who wants the pest animals out, if not wanting to be direct and assertive with the other landowner, should just go ahead and fence off their property properly at their own expense, then set about treating any livestock still on the place after as their own. if the other bloke doesnt like that they will be fenced in there, he has that time to come and get them out. if he fails to act, that is his fault. really I cant see how someone would not have already addressed the fence situation if good biosecurity is their aim.


It didn't really become a problem to neighbours until they removed the plantation that was between them. The neighbours don't have stock because they don't want stock, or the responsibilities of stock owners, like fencing. To spend thousands of dollars replacing their current fencing with sheep fencing is an expensive way to address the problem.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 4:37 pm

well fences are good policy regardless, you cant imply someone or especially some animal is infringing on your property if you yourself have not gone to the lengths to fence the property correctly. its pretty much a universal cost most to all land owners incur, even cattle stations of 400,000+ acres have fences. I find it hard to have an argument for biosecurity if there is no measures to keep out undesirable species.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 4:39 pm

ZaineB wrote:well fences are good policy regardless, you cant imply someone or especially some animal is infringing on your property if you yourself have not gone to the lengths to fence the property correctly. its pretty much a universal cost most to all land owners incur, even cattle stations of 400,000+ acres have fences. I find it hard to have an argument for biosecurity if there is no measures to keep out undesirable species.


They have perfectly adequate fencing already as they are not fencing stock in, merely "securing" the property. It is not a property owner's responsibility to fence other people's animals out.

Biosecurity has never been raised as an issue, these are all neighbouring properties.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 4:44 pm

again "I find it hard to have an argument for biosecurity if there is no measure to keep out undesirable species", biosecurity encompasses the issue of domesticated livestock infringing on land. not one property owner that I know has ever fallen short of installing required fencing to keep out whatever pests or trespassers they wish to keep out, its kind of just common sense,
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 4:55 pm

ZaineB wrote:again "I find it hard to have an argument for biosecurity if there is no measure to keep out undesirable species", biosecurity encompasses the issue of domesticated livestock infringing on land. not one property owner that I know has ever fallen short of installing required fencing to keep out whatever pests or trespassers they wish to keep out, its kind of just common sense,


I know _lots_ of property owners with what you would consider inadequate fencing around here. An awful lot of property owners move out here for the lifestyle, not to run a farm. They certainly don't want to replace their perfectly adequate $8/m boundary fencing with $15/m sheep fencing when they don't abut any sheep properties. We re-fenced several paddocks with sheep/pig fencing ourselves to open up our own options.

Again, nobody is arguing this from a biosecurity angle, it's purely an animal trespass and fencing issue.

Which state are you in?
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by Oldbloke » 26 May 2021, 5:37 pm

"The plantation was a lease but is being returned to National Park."
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So,, an old pine plantation is about to become NP. (National neglect park)

Sheesh, madness

Well,, if it was me. As soon as a sheep trespasses I would shoot it.

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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 6:08 pm

animal trespass is a biosecurity issue, its inalienable, in any case the bloke who owns the joint and has sheep he doesnt want on the place is kidding himself if he thinks that its not his responsibility to secure his property from pests he does not want entering.

likewise instead of pussy footing around with the prick next door, go over and be direct (as being direct shows the most respect and maturity anyway) and maybe take a 6 pack or whatever to lube the gears a bit and have the frank discussion about the sheep.

whole thing sounds like two people as bad as each other and neither one wanting to grow up over it.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 6:08 pm

Yes, it's a part of the plantation lease that was always too rugged to do anything with, or maintain anyway, so it's being returned to National Park status and revegetated with natives.


Oldbloke wrote:"The plantation was a lease but is being returned to National Park."
bladeracer

So,, an old pine plantation is about to become NP. (National neglect park)

Sheesh, madness

Well,, if it was me. As soon as a sheep trespasses I would shoot it.

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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 6:11 pm

if the sheep are indeed un marked and on your mates property they are as good as his, the other bloke has no claim to them, further more if the other bloke has not got a brand, then he cant claim them anyway, I would tee up a cocky that wants the sheep, round em up (dont care how wild they are all sheep can be rounded up), and shove em on a trailer or whatever and make some coin back for the issues they have caused.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2021, 6:44 pm

ZaineB wrote:if the sheep are indeed un marked and on your mates property they are as good as his, the other bloke has no claim to them, further more if the other bloke has not got a brand, then he cant claim them anyway, I would tee up a cocky that wants the sheep, round em up (dont care how wild they are all sheep can be rounded up), and shove em on a trailer or whatever and make some coin back for the issues they have caused.


No idea about brands or tags, and they're so overgrown it'd be tough to find tags anyway, the animals barely have visible faces.
I'd agree that anything can be rounded up, if the terrain is amenable, this area is extremely steep and heavily vegetated deer country, even walking anywhere is a real mission. Getting to a sheep after shooting it would be difficult, I wouldn't want to imagine trying to herd the bastards in there :-)

We often move our cattle using a portable yard and race, which would be impossible in this area.

I agree that the animals have been loose for so long they are feral, and as such, belong to whomever owns the property they're standing on at the time. But I don't have to spend the rest of my life living with a pissed off neighbour, my friend does :-)

I think we'll probably end up just dropping one or two occasionally to try to thin the flock down, and perhaps train them to stay away. I doubt anybody knows precisely how many sheep are in there.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by on_one_wheel » 26 May 2021, 7:05 pm

I shot 6 sheep last year, the neighbours were notified of their presence 6 months prior and nothing was done about it probably because the sheep had already learned that they were untouchable on the rocky slopes above the creek.
I managed to butcher 1 but the rest were put in the too hard basket because they'd tumbled all the way into the gully.

The sheep were causing damage to an orchard and revegetated bush therefore they were considered a pest. It was a very similar situation to your mates, I use to knock one over once in while but it got out of hand with triple fleased sheep getting around.

If your mate makes a effort to contact the owners ideally with some form of proof, phone records, diary entries or emails im pretty sure the owner won't have a leg to stand on if they kick up a fuss about the animals being destroyed.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by ZaineB » 26 May 2021, 7:34 pm

if thats the case just shoot the rams. the rest wont breed after that, also if you start feeding them in an accessible area, likelihood is that they will come to that spot. bushland usually doesnt provide nearly as much food for them as pasture, they would get keen on a decent hay bale once in a while in one spot, then its easy peasy.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bigpete » 28 May 2021, 2:02 pm

Just make them disappear
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by Skinna » 29 May 2021, 12:06 am

Yep..if you want to keep it all above board & legit, id ask the council over the phone, then get their reply in writing.
Once you have that, notify the neighbours & away you go.
If its thick country like you say you'd want some good sheep dogs if youre to heard them up.
Alternatively train them with feed is the easiest to a convenient place to nutt them...& add a water point with the feed as well, Once they know its there, you will be able to set your clock to them coming each day.
Then a 22hp to one or two at a time & open that neck up right back the vertebrae with your waders on LOL.
Take the legs & straps too--it will help in breaking down the carcass & also make you some mighty fine taco mince, a good ragu, mutton burgers, beautiful curry, & bolognaise sauce...ribs for the dogs, & shanks for a nice long braise in the slow cooker...ah gees im hungry now...

Remember to take the tag to cover yourself either way.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by NTSOG » 29 May 2021, 7:15 am

G'day,

I'd always start by notifying the owner of the trespassing stock in writing by registered letter that invading and unwanted animals must be removed or prevented from coming onto my property. [I did this in relation to a flock of randy geese owned by couple of fools who came from the city and turned their poultry loose. The filthy blighters quickly started ranging all over my property and bred like rabbits. I informed the owners the geese would be 'terminated' if they didn't act within a specified time.] If one goes and shoots the invading animals out of hand without informing the owner, things can get nasty in a legal sense. Then tell the local By Laws Officer/Ranger [and even the local Police] what's going on and take his recommendation. Take photos/video too: Rangers like to have photographic evidence. Then either the Ranger deals with the problem directly - the local Ranger came and shot the geese on my property before I owned firearms - or the owner of the property does. In the case of sheep there is the issue of animals like sheep and cattle having to be ear tagged so they can be processed through sale yards or at abattoirs for reasons of disease/biosecurity. Sellers have to make legally binding declarations about the long term health and history of the animals. I would get the ranger to remove them and have them destroyed, carcasses then burned unless they would be a useful source of lamb or mutton ongoing, but retaining them might create ongoing problems with the original owner who might then demand their return.

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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by Fionn » 29 May 2021, 3:43 pm

bladeracer wrote:As I said, the consensus is that they don't want to bring him legal trouble if it can be avoided. But, the other landowners also don't want to bring legal problems down on themselves by dealing with the problem in haste. The ideal I think is to shoot them and distribute the meat around the neighbours involved.


Shooting the sheep without the owners expressed permission is illegal and a very good way to lose your licence and firearms if he objects to you doing such.

Just because he is breaking the law, doesn't mean you can.

No1Mk3 has told you the best way to handle it and the laws that cover it. ie. Impounding of Livestock Act 1994

If you are going to risk shooting them, then like murders, make sure there are no witnesses, tell know one and dispose of the bodies so they can't be found.
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Re: Animal trespass laws - Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 29 May 2021, 4:19 pm

If somebody else's animal is on your property, you can indeed shoot it without their permission, provided it is doing damage or threatening your own animals.
You can't shoot it merely because it is on your property.

Yes, we have no intention of breaking any laws, but also there is no intention of bringing the law down on the owner of the animals, if it can be avoided. The owner doesn't want, and frankly probably can't afford, the expense of re-fencing and trying to regain control over the animals, animals that are essentially wild ferals now.

This situation is a little tricky I think because there are decades of prior "tolerance" of these animals roaming freely, without them causing any trouble to neighbouring properties, until now when the situation has changed. While the intervening property was pine plantation, the animals roamed freely without damaging anything (this part of the plantation is so difficult it was never planted). Now that revegetation is occurring, very expensive seedlings are at great risk, but the property is now National Park and prohibited for shooting, before, the lessee could bring in professionals to deal with pest animals - they did not allow recreational shooters under any circumstances, even at the request of the National Park.


Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:As I said, the consensus is that they don't want to bring him legal trouble if it can be avoided. But, the other landowners also don't want to bring legal problems down on themselves by dealing with the problem in haste. The ideal I think is to shoot them and distribute the meat around the neighbours involved.


Shooting the sheep without the owners expressed permission is illegal and a very good way to lose your licence and firearms if he objects to you doing such.

Just because he is breaking the law, doesn't mean you can.

No1Mk3 has told you the best way to handle it and the laws that cover it. ie. Impounding of Livestock Act 1994

If you are going to risk shooting them, then like murders, make sure there are no witnesses, tell know one and dispose of the bodies so they can't be found.
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