Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by sbd850 » 22 Jul 2021, 7:34 pm

Hey all,

I'm not depressed nor suicidal, however I'm struggling a little with lockdowns and am extremely frustrated at the injustice of it as I'm stuggling to feed my family etc

I'm considering going down the line of a mental health plan and getting s referral to speak to a psychologist so that I have more tools to hold it together.

I see shooting as relaxing and therapeutic. I do not see rifles as a violent weapon. I see target shooting as a skill that can always be improved, with shooting being one of those sports where you never stop learning, with many different caliber's to build skill with over the years etc.

Anyway, if I go down this road, does it make me an "improper person"? Will it cause me to lose my license if I do so?

Cheers
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Harrynsw » 22 Jul 2021, 7:45 pm

Possibly....I used to work with a bloke who had some psychological issues "on record" so to speak, he applied for a firearms licence and got knocked back.

Are you claiming any covid assistance from the government?
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by ZaineB » 22 Jul 2021, 8:16 pm

are you self funding the sessions or getting them as a referral from the GP and utilizing the 10 free sessions?

If you are funding it yourself without involving medicare and dont mention anything about firearms then you will have 0 issues, if you use a GP referral and Medicare then you will be on record.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by JohnV » 22 Jul 2021, 8:26 pm

Be careful some of these medical practitioners feel obliged to tell on you and under the firearms act you can't sue them for it so don't tell them anything about owning any guns , NOTHING ! It's none of their business . If they ask you any leading questions say no I don't own any . I look at it this way , will they help you pay your bills ? NO . So think hard before you talk to any of them .
We are all in the same boat mate I have hardly left my house in 5 year's . 2 year's of covid and 3 year's of getting over cancer .
Take advantage of any food banks and get whatever you can free , give up any vices that cost you money and if things get really bad pets and luxuries have to go . If you have parental support ask them for financial help for the necessities not luxuries . Hang in there and stay calm and do the right thing by your family .
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by ZaineB » 22 Jul 2021, 8:31 pm

Also might be against the grain for you but a lot of churches offer free counselling via counselling accredited pastors and ministers etc, and even neo secular church organizations like salvos, holy oak (uniting care?), and so on all have similar things as well as free financial and planning counselling for those in need... dont feel like you need to go and put yourself into the system with the GP and have it on your health record.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by sbd850 » 22 Jul 2021, 8:31 pm

ZaineB wrote:are you self funding the sessions or getting them as a referral from the GP and utilizing the 10 free sessions?

If you are funding it yourself without involving medicare and dont mention anything about firearms then you will have 0 issues, if you use a GP referral and Medicare then you will be on record.


I was hoping to utilise the free sessions and wasn't going to mention anything about firearms.

Or will it be something that instantly flags on the lrd system that leads to them suddenly rocking up and taking my license?
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by ZaineB » 22 Jul 2021, 8:34 pm

sbd850 wrote:
ZaineB wrote:are you self funding the sessions or getting them as a referral from the GP and utilizing the 10 free sessions?

If you are funding it yourself without involving medicare and dont mention anything about firearms then you will have 0 issues, if you use a GP referral and Medicare then you will be on record.


I was hoping to utilise the free sessions and wasn't going to mention anything about firearms.

Or will it be something that instantly flags on the lrd system that leads to them suddenly rocking up and taking my license?



with different state police being invasive and breaching trust and probably privacy laws by looking at people's health records through government access points, I wouldn't be putting myself on the system anytime soon.

Personally can't see it as being legal for them to look on the health records at all, they aren't medical practitioners who have permission from yourself or those caring for you, even a random doctor cant legally look you up, even if working for the government, so I see this as a major issue, but we know they do it... so best avoid being their target.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by boingk » 22 Jul 2021, 8:38 pm

Hey mate, try lifeline. I hear they are often pretty good at talking through life problems and mental health. Beyond Blue are also a good group.

Its free and completely confidential. Call on a private number just to be careful.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by sbd850 » 22 Jul 2021, 8:43 pm

ZaineB wrote:
sbd850 wrote:
ZaineB wrote:are you self funding the sessions or getting them as a referral from the GP and utilizing the 10 free sessions?

If you are funding it yourself without involving medicare and dont mention anything about firearms then you will have 0 issues, if you use a GP referral and Medicare then you will be on record.


I was hoping to utilise the free sessions and wasn't going to mention anything about firearms.

Or will it be something that instantly flags on the lrd system that leads to them suddenly rocking up and taking my license?



with different state police being invasive and breaching trust and probably privacy laws by looking at people's health records through government access points, I wouldn't be putting myself on the system anytime soon.

Personally can't see it as being legal for them to look on the health records at all, they aren't medical practitioners who have permission from yourself or those caring for you, even a random doctor cant legally look you up, even if working for the government, so I see this as a major issue, but we know they do it... so best avoid being their target.



Alrighty, I'll probably just save my pennies and fund it myself then, better to be safe.

I want to do this for a life long hobby. It would be a shame to lose it for being a non violent person who just needs a little help to put everything back together in a more resourceful way.
Last edited by sbd850 on 22 Jul 2021, 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Oldbloke » 22 Jul 2021, 10:30 pm

boingk wrote:Hey mate, try lifeline. I hear they are often pretty good at talking through life problems and mental health. Beyond Blue are also a good group.

Its free and completely confidential. Call on a private number just to be careful.


This makes good sense to me.
John v gave some good advice too.

Take it easy
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by boingk » 22 Jul 2021, 11:00 pm

ZaineB wrote:Personally can't see it as being legal for them to look on the health records at all


Mate if you havent opted out of 'My Health' they have all you info.

If you are over 60 and travel around a lot (aka grey nomad) I'd recommend keeping it but otherwise opt the fahrk out.

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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by pomemax » 23 Jul 2021, 12:59 am

Under section 316 of the Act, a person who knows or believes that he or she has information that might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension, prosecution or conviction in relation to a serious indictable offence must bring that information to the attention of a member of the NSW Police Force or other appropriate authority. An exception is provided if you are engaged in a ‘prescribed profession’, which includes the practice of psychology.

this exception does not, however, absolve us of responsibility where there is a significant risk of harm. Historically, psychologists have not been expected to act on risk unless there was an immediate and specified risk.

Following a Coroner’s case in Victoria and with reference to the Lindt Café siege in NSW, the APS Code of Ethics had a ‘patch’ added. Section A. 5 .2 (c) of the Code states that psychologists may disclose confidential information “if there is an immediate and specified risk of harm to an identifiable person or persons that can be averted only by disclosing information”. Psychologists covered under the Federal privacy legislation may disclose client information if they believe the “disclosure is necessary to lessen or prevent a serious threat to life, health or safety of any individual, or to public health or safety. The threat does not have to be immediate or specific”.
I was wondering about it so I went looking on the net
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by straightshooter » 23 Jul 2021, 7:41 am

ZaineB wrote:are you self funding the sessions or getting them as a referral from the GP and utilizing the 10 free sessions?

If you are funding it yourself without involving medicare and dont mention anything about firearms then you will have 0 issues, if you use a GP referral and Medicare then you will be on record.

I note your location is "other" so things may be different there but all other states of Australia have mandatory reporting rules by all health professionals.
So if, even inadvertently, you disclose some possible tendency to a reportable matter that could affect that health professional's registration what do you think will take precedence.
I can tell you now, the health professionals future livelihood will always come first.

sbd850
The simple fact that you recognise the circumstances within which you have an issue suggests you have the capacity to deal with it without professional intervention and thus achieve the positive outcome you seek.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jul 2021, 8:22 am

sbd850 is in Victoria
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by sbd850 » 23 Jul 2021, 8:39 am

Yeah I'm in Vic, I just won't mention firearms regardless,

All I really need to know is - If I go through the GP referral/10 free sessions is there some alert that will pop up and next thing I know my license is gone? As in, will my license be taken virtually the instant that I go through Medicare for a health plan? Without them even knowing the specifics of the reasoning?

I know people may not have the answer to this, but if anyone has a rough idea etc.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Larry » 23 Jul 2021, 9:31 am

As someone else said there are disease that have mandatory reporting. Things like Typhoid, covid, plauge, child abuse,ect I dont know the status of what they may classify you are suffering. Sorry for your predicament mate I would go the private route at least at first and sus out the situation.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Fionn » 23 Jul 2021, 10:02 am

sbd850 wrote:Yeah I'm in Vic, I just won't mention firearms regardless,

All I really need to know is - If I go through the GP referral/10 free sessions is there some alert that will pop up and next thing I know my license is gone? As in, will my license be taken virtually the instant that I go through Medicare for a health plan? Without them even knowing the specifics of the reasoning?

I know people may not have the answer to this, but if anyone has a rough idea etc.


The answer is No, the police won't be informed and there is no alerts or warnings on any system police have access to

To get that information the police require court permission such as a warrant, court order etc.

The only way police will find out about it is if someone reports you to them in regards to your mental health condition is causing a danger to yourself or the public. When reported and the information entered in the police system it will show you have a firearms licence and firearms.

The medical profession have certain reporting requirements when they have concerns about your safety and others so are required to report, but it has to be serious concerns.

Seeing a psychologist doesn't automatically mean you have mental health problems, there are many reasons to see them, such as building and learning support strategies or simply having an expert to talk to about problems and how to deal with them in a constructive way.

I have a family member who is a licensed firearm owner who sees a psychologist monthly (for over 10 years) due to a job requirement. (They deal with stressful and distressing stuff in their job). To make sure they are traveling OK and it's not affecting them and to debrief.

The safest option is don't mention you have firearms (to anyone).as it increases the likelihood of being reported ie a depressed person vs a depressed person with access to firearms.

You need to take care of yourself for your family. If you are feeling depressed or not coping, maybe think about getting a licenced friend to look after your firearms for a while.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jul 2021, 12:45 pm

Yeh, I generally keep my hunting to my self. If asked why I'm going bush my reply is usually camping, hiking, bird watching.
Made the mistake a few months ago and mention hunting to my GP. Just hope he didn't note it on my record.

Although I am now traveling in a van (apprentice grey nomad) a fair bit I opted out of the "My Health" system. I figure the Mrs knows the name of our GP and can inform the hospital in the case of an emergency.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by ZaineB » 23 Jul 2021, 1:59 pm

straightshooter wrote:
ZaineB wrote:are you self funding the sessions or getting them as a referral from the GP and utilizing the 10 free sessions?

If you are funding it yourself without involving medicare and dont mention anything about firearms then you will have 0 issues, if you use a GP referral and Medicare then you will be on record.

I note your location is "other" so things may be different there but all other states of Australia have mandatory reporting rules by all health professionals.
So if, even inadvertently, you disclose some possible tendency to a reportable matter that could affect that health professional's registration what do you think will take precedence.
I can tell you now, the health professionals future livelihood will always come first.

sbd850
The simple fact that you recognise the circumstances within which you have an issue suggests you have the capacity to deal with it without professional intervention and thus achieve the positive outcome you seek.


My focus is more keeping it off the record. unless he presents a clear and present danger to himself or anyone else there really is no circumstance where someone would report his firearm ownership as an issue in relation to seeking counselling, however, we know the police step over the line like zealots so why give them the opportunity? I am well aware of the law regarding this stuff in at least qld, nsw and wa... and unless there is harm being committed or likely to be committed expressed via a threat made. there is no reason a practitioner (especially just a diploma level counsellor) would risk being sued over reporting someone as a threat. But rather than having to deal with some sort of eventuation, best to keep it under wraps, hence mentioning using pastoral care etc also, they arent just there to bible bash people and help dozens to hundreds of people a month, regularly.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by sbd850 » 23 Jul 2021, 2:32 pm

Fionn wrote:
sbd850 wrote:Yeah I'm in Vic, I just won't mention firearms regardless,

All I really need to know is - If I go through the GP referral/10 free sessions is there some alert that will pop up and next thing I know my license is gone? As in, will my license be taken virtually the instant that I go through Medicare for a health plan? Without them even knowing the specifics of the reasoning?

I know people may not have the answer to this, but if anyone has a rough idea etc.


The answer is No, the police won't be informed and there is no alerts or warnings on any system police have access to

To get that information the police require court permission such as a warrant, court order etc.

The only way police will find out about it is if someone reports you to them in regards to your mental health condition is causing a danger to yourself or the public. When reported and the information entered in the police system it will show you have a firearms licence and firearms.

The medical profession have certain reporting requirements when they have concerns about your safety and others so are required to report, but it has to be serious concerns.

Seeing a psychologist doesn't automatically mean you have mental health problems, there are many reasons to see them, such as building and learning support strategies or simply having an expert to talk to about problems and how to deal with them in a constructive way.

I have a family member who is a licensed firearm owner who sees a psychologist monthly (for over 10 years) due to a job requirement. (They deal with stressful and distressing stuff in their job). To make sure they are traveling OK and it's not affecting them and to debrief.

The safest option is don't mention you have firearms (to anyone).as it increases the likelihood of being reported ie a depressed person vs a depressed person with access to firearms.

You need to take care of yourself for your family. If you are feeling depressed or not coping, maybe think about getting a licenced friend to look after your firearms for a while.


Yeah exactly, I don't think I have mental health issues - I'm just after some guidance to deal with things in a more constructive manor and methods to deal with continuous uncertainty etc.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by womble » 23 Jul 2021, 3:48 pm

Ring a councillor already dude.
It ain’t weak to speak.
Just try it. Guarantee you will feel a lot better for it. Then follow up on it the next week and take it further from there if you need to.
Everybody goes through rough patches sometimes. Life is full of uncertainties. But then it would be boring without challenges to overcome.
But anyway, get on it now before it festers. Just do it.
They’re not going to take your licence just for that. You’re doing the responsible thing here for yourself and your family.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by cz515 » 23 Jul 2021, 4:19 pm

This is something I have had some experience with mate. But remember we can only give you opinions and opinions are like arseholes.

One of the biggest silent killer for farmers (and rural communities) is suicide. Where blokes are supposed to be strong and the pillar of the family/society. Talking to a trained professional or even a friend is not weak, it may actually save your life. We have access to lifeline and beyond blue, theses are two services that are completly free and confidential, look into them (but they are not for crisis, so use them before you end up doing something really bad)

Using a mental health plan gives you 10 free allied health sessions, considering the cost of psychologists (200-300/ session) I think this is a good way to get some much needed help. There is usually long waiting times at the moment due to the strain the system is under. Also be aware like a relationship not every psychologists is right for you. You may go through a few to find the good one.

Like others have said you do not need to mention you have a firearms license, if you are worried as I see you are, don't mention it.

The law is, if you are a danger then the health professional has to mandatory report you in Victoria. Other states differ.

---------

Now the numpty who is telling others not to use my health record, should ead. Except WA at the moment no other state police has looked into my health record. Even then its not like they can run a database search to show all users who have a firearms license (if no other reason because it doesn't store license info) and then search those who have seen a psychologists.

They can get a court order to look up a specific person. But then they can easily see who has been billing you in Medicare and contact them... trust me a GP will tell them everything if a cop showed up with a court order.

Now health record, is I think one of the best ideas the government came up with.. only to fk it up like every other great idea. Wrong medications causing reactions in hospital emergency rooms results in thousands of complications and deaths every year. My friend, the apprentice gray nomad if bad thing happened and you both are in an accident, she might not be concious to give your history and even if there is usually not enough time
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by cz515 » 23 Jul 2021, 4:30 pm

Ohh btw I didn't mean I have to use the system. Moreso professional interest and have friends/family members seeking mental health care
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Larry » 23 Jul 2021, 6:42 pm

Victoria Police have also accessed the MY Health Record only they have done it in accordance with the rules and obtained a warrant first. It was only a small proportion of cases as compared to WA that just managed to access the records with no permission.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by linkoln » 23 Jul 2021, 6:50 pm

I can't speak to the immediate consequences but when your licence renewal comes around you will need to tell them you have been treated for an emotional illness and that could have an effect on if you get it back or not and if you fail to report it and they find out you could be considered an unfit person.

You will need to get a letter from the person who treated you or a health care professor who knows about your illness. I've seen posts on here of people saying their doctor refuses to write a note because they personally didn't like guns. Lrd aren't looking for someone personal opinion they want a medial diagnosis and it sounds like it can be tough to get that.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by womble » 23 Jul 2021, 7:38 pm

Yep. Look, speaking to a councillor or a psychologist is not the same as being diagnosed with a mental illness.
You’re looking after your mental health. And that’s a good thing. Body/mind/temple whatever. People get sad. People get stressed. People grieve. People get divorced etc. s**t happens.

Not the same a as clinical diagnosis for a chemical imbalance in your brain. That you would be obliged to declare. Like I’ve just been diagnosed as a homicidal maniac for example. That would be of relevance for them. Then they take your guns to prevent you from shooting everybody. Fair enough.

You don’t have to tell them you are feeling sad. What are you going to say, i was a bit emotional last year because i ran over dog again.

It’s ok to not be ok all the time.
It’s really none of their business.

So start at the beginning. Talk to someone, make a follow up appointment to touch bases again. See where it goes from there.
Ask for help. Do it now. There’s no shame in it. You’re not burdening anyone. You learn from it, you pay it forward. You get reassurance, it filters through your family.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by cz515 » 23 Jul 2021, 8:14 pm

linkoln wrote:I can't speak to the immediate consequences but when your licence renewal comes around you will need to tell them you have been treated for an emotional illness and that could have an effect on if you get it back or not and if you fail to report it and they find out you could be considered an unfit person.

You will need to get a letter from the person who treated you or a health care professor who knows about your illness. I've seen posts on here of people saying their doctor refuses to write a note because they personally didn't like guns. Lrd aren't looking for someone personal opinion they want a medial diagnosis and it sounds like it can be tough to get that.


As I said I personally know two cases where they got letters from their GP and psychologist to then get a license
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by boingk » 23 Jul 2021, 10:25 pm

linkoln wrote:I can't speak to the immediate consequences but when your licence renewal comes around you will need to tell them you have been treated for an emotional illness and that could have an effect on if you get it back or not and if you fail to report it and they find out you could be considered an unfit person.


And say 'no'.

The sessions are private. Unless you disclose them or there is a warrant for disclosure by the psychologist / counsellor then... yeah. Don't give them a reason.

"Have you been treated for any mental health condition?"

No. No you have not. You took pre-emptive action to speak to a professional because we're living in unprecedented modern times and just wanted to make sense of it.

Or, easier, just say "NO".
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Empie » 22 Dec 2021, 10:24 pm

For those who opted out of My Health Record, it looks like we are being forced into it if wanting a digital vaccination certificate e.g. as a requirement for cross-border travel. Paper vaccination certificates are not worth the paper they are printed on.
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Re: Will Starting Therapy Cause License to be Taken?

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Dec 2021, 6:55 am

Empie wrote:For those who opted out of My Health Record, it looks like we are being forced into it if wanting a digital vaccination certificate e.g. as a requirement for cross-border travel. Paper vaccination certificates are not worth the paper they are printed on.


I opted out of my health record and had no issues getting a digital certificate.
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