Category C question

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 10 Dec 2022, 9:31 am

Hi there,

I’m a farmer with a newly approved Category C license.

Does this license permit only firearms that are defined by the category definition? I.e. semi auto rimfires and semi auto shotguns?

Or can I purchase anything from A and B also (my license only shows C though).

I was thinking a centrefire 223 would be appropriate since kangaroo culling (under permit) is one one the the farms needs and I can’t see a rimfire doing that, regardless of semi auto firing.

223 seems like a better choice but is that available to category C holders?
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Re: Category C question

Post by No1Mk3 » 12 Dec 2022, 12:33 pm

G'day Hagakure,
The general understanding in Victoria for many decades is that you may purchase a firearm UP TO the Category on your licence, so a Cat A may only own a manually operated (break action, bolt action etc) shotgun or rimfire rifle, Cat B may own centrefire & rimfire or shotgun, so your Cat C allows pump action or semi-auto shotgun and rimfires within the mag limits as well as lesser Categories. Where you need to have some care is that LRD may look at your application and decide that having acquired a Cat B firearm your Genuine Reason for Cat C is invalid and may cancel your licence
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Re: Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 12 Dec 2022, 1:16 pm

Thanks for the reply No1mk3, that I think, was my assumption when I applied. I specified in the application that I would eventually be assuming responsibility for both my grandfather and my dad’s rifles continuing the farm, so C seemed logical. I always thought C was ‘higher’ than A and B and so when I the licence came back C only I double checked and it seems centrefire bolt actions aren’t covered on C. I spoke to the local gun shop and they said I would need an A/B also to cover the .22, .223 and 10 gauge as my C license only covers semis.

I did specify all farm activities including varmin and putting down the occasional animal.

bloody frustrating. I was told basically to put in another application to cover those other one.
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Re: Category C question

Post by bladeracer » 12 Dec 2022, 2:04 pm

Hagakure wrote:Hi there,

I’m a farmer with a newly approved Category C license.

Does this license permit only firearms that are defined by the category definition? I.e. semi auto rimfires and semi auto shotguns?

Or can I purchase anything from A and B also (my license only shows C though).

I was thinking a centrefire 223 would be appropriate since kangaroo culling (under permit) is one one the the farms needs and I can’t see a rimfire doing that, regardless of semi auto firing.

223 seems like a better choice but is that available to category C holders?


If you only have a CatC licence I would expect you can only own and use CatC firearms. Add CatA/B to your licence. But buy a CatC rifle or gun as well if you want to keep your CatC licence, you were granted it because you showed a genuine reason for it. If you no longer have genuine need for it I would expect them to cancel it, though what would precipitate them doing that I don't know, it might not occur until renewal time when their records will show that throughout that period you never actually bought one, thus you have no need of it.

.223 will be either CatB (all actions except semi-auto), or CatD for semi-auto rifles.

It is quite difficult to get cull permits for roos, and you can't take them with rimfires anyway, minimum is .204 I think.
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Re: Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 13 Dec 2022, 4:32 pm

bladeracer wrote:If you only have a CatC licence I would expect you can only own and use CatC firearms. Add CatA/B to your licence. But buy a CatC rifle or gun as well if you want to keep your CatC licence, you were granted it because you showed a genuine reason for it. If you no longer have genuine need for it I would expect them to cancel it, though what would precipitate them doing that I don't know, it might not occur until renewal time when their records will show that throughout that period you never actually bought one, thus you have no need of it.

.223 will be either CatB (all actions except semi-auto), or CatD for semi-auto rifles.

It is quite difficult to get cull permits for roos, and you can't take them with rimfires anyway, minimum is .204 I think.


Yes, that's more or less what the firearms store people said -- that you're restricted to arms inside the definition. In any case, I have applied for the A/B now to cover the existing arms, and will probably pickup a semi .22 magnum for myself. Historically, it hasn't been too difficult to obtain roo culling licenses on this farm, but the work was always done by outsider guys.

Thanks for your help guys -- I hope this thread gets picked up as I looked pretty extensively, but it's a difficult search query to find precise answers for. Cheers
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Re: Category C question

Post by bladeracer » 13 Dec 2022, 5:26 pm

Hagakure wrote:Yes, that's more or less what the firearms store people said -- that you're restricted to arms inside the definition. In any case, I have applied for the A/B now to cover the existing arms, and will probably pickup a semi .22 magnum for myself. Historically, it hasn't been too difficult to obtain roo culling licenses on this farm, but the work was always done by outsider guys.

Thanks for your help guys -- I hope this thread gets picked up as I looked pretty extensively, but it's a difficult search query to find precise answers for. Cheers


Sounds like a plan, but be aware that you can't take roos with the WMR. WMR is allowed for wallabies out to 80m.
Appendix 3 of the Code.
https://agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/20-126-digital.pdf
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Re: Category C question

Post by dpskipper » 15 Dec 2022, 10:54 am

bladeracer wrote:Sounds like a plan, but be aware that you can't take roos with the WMR.


Back my in day (when roos where not protected) WMR was an excellent choice. cheaper than 22-250 or 222 swift and perfect for closer distances.

I still know a few pro shooters who :allegedly: prefer win mag
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Re: Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 15 Dec 2022, 12:43 pm

bladeracer wrote:Sounds like a plan, but be aware that you can't take roos with the WMR. WMR is allowed for wallabies out to 80m.
Appendix 3 of the Code.
https://agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/20-126-digital.pdf


Indeed, that is why I'm applying to extend the license to A/B/C because it's my view also that a 22wmr isn't adequate for a roo. I'm sure a crack shot could manage that a close range, but I'm not interested in inflicting non-fatal wounds on wildlife, that's for sure. .223 for sure.
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Re: Category C question

Post by bladeracer » 15 Dec 2022, 1:18 pm

Hagakure wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Sounds like a plan, but be aware that you can't take roos with the WMR. WMR is allowed for wallabies out to 80m.
Appendix 3 of the Code.
https://agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/20-126-digital.pdf


Indeed, that is why I'm applying to extend the license to A/B/C because it's my view also that a 22wmr isn't adequate for a roo. I'm sure a crack shot could manage that a close range, but I'm not interested in inflicting non-fatal wounds on wildlife, that's for sure. .223 for sure.


Absolutely. The combination of WMR and semi-auto I think you might struggle to get the accuracy for head-shooting wallabies even out to 80m though. Have you decided what model of semi-auto WMR you're interested in?
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Re: Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 10 Jan 2023, 11:35 am

bladeracer wrote:Absolutely. The combination of WMR and semi-auto I think you might struggle to get the accuracy for head-shooting wallabies even out to 80m though. Have you decided what model of semi-auto WMR you're interested in?


Sorry, just saw this bladeracer, I haven’t decided yet - just wanted to get the licensing out of the way. Would you have any recommendations for WMR semis?
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Re: Category C question

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jan 2023, 1:29 pm

Hagakure wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Absolutely. The combination of WMR and semi-auto I think you might struggle to get the accuracy for head-shooting wallabies even out to 80m though. Have you decided what model of semi-auto WMR you're interested in?


Sorry, just saw this bladeracer, I haven’t decided yet - just wanted to get the licensing out of the way. Would you have any recommendations for WMR semis?


The CZ512 is the first one that comes to mind, and Savage do one I think. The KelTec carbine is common in the US but I've never heard of the brand down here. I know nothing about any of them so couldn't recommend any, but the CZ would likely be what I would look at first.
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Re: Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 11 Jan 2023, 5:23 pm

bladeracer wrote: CZ512 is the first one that comes to mind, and Savage do one I think. The KelTec carbine is common in the US but I've never heard of the brand down here. I know nothing about any of them so couldn't recommend any, but the CZ would likely be what I would look at first.


Thanks - yes, those the CZ and the savage seem to be the two that come up the most in Australian searches. Probably there isn’t an aweful lot of choice really. Seems like you need to start with what’s available rather than what’s out there generally. Both seem pretty decent though.
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Re: Category C question

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2023, 6:23 pm

Hagakure wrote:
bladeracer wrote: CZ512 is the first one that comes to mind, and Savage do one I think. The KelTec carbine is common in the US but I've never heard of the brand down here. I know nothing about any of them so couldn't recommend any, but the CZ would likely be what I would look at first.


Thanks - yes, those the CZ and the savage seem to be the two that come up the most in Australian searches. Probably there isn’t an aweful lot of choice really. Seems like you need to start with what’s available rather than what’s out there generally. Both seem pretty decent though.


I think the early CZ has an issue with the action not being fixed well in the stock, or the rail is not screwed to the action, something like that. I'll see if I can find a video I watched about it.

Couldn't find the one I saw but I did find one with a different issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3SpkAND8M
He has a follow-up video after returning it to CZ but that may not be something we can rely on in Oz.

There are reasons why not many manufacturers have bothered making WMR semi-auto's. The cartridge is just too hot to make a straight blow-back (as with .22LR). The bolt has to be heavy enough to keep the case in the chamber until the bullet leaves the muzzle, and a heavy bolt can be difficult to get recoiling back fast enough to recock the system. Like many semi-auto firearms they can be very finnicky regarding ammo choices. If you find an ammo that it functions with though it should run fine. As with semi-auto handguns and shotguns you have to hold the rifle fairly securely, if it is free to recoil that saps energy out of the bolt.
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Re: Category C question

Post by Hagakure » 18 Jan 2023, 8:43 am

bladeracer wrote:Thanks - yes, those the CZ and the savage seem to be the two that come up the most in Australian searches. Probably there isn’t an aweful lot of choice really. Seems like you need to start with what’s available rather than what’s out there generally. Both seem pretty decent though.


I think the early CZ has an issue with the action not being fixed well in the stock, or the rail is not screwed to the action, something like that. I'll see if I can find a video I watched about it.

Couldn't find the one I saw but I did find one with a different issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3SpkAND8M
He has a follow-up video after returning it to CZ but that may not be something we can rely on in Oz.

There are reasons why not many manufacturers have bothered making WMR semi-auto's. The cartridge is just too hot to make a straight blow-back (as with .22LR). The bolt has to be heavy enough to keep the case in the chamber until the bullet leaves the muzzle, and a heavy bolt can be difficult to get recoiling back fast enough to recock the system. Like many semi-auto firearms they can be very finnicky regarding ammo choices. If you find an ammo that it functions with though it should run fine. As with semi-auto handguns and shotguns you have to hold the rifle fairly securely, if it is free to recoil that saps energy out of the bolt.[/quote]

Thanks bladerunner! Very informative and a good starting point for my final decision. Generally, I get the impression that CZ make a decent rifle but those points about WMR semi-auto is new information to me. Thank heaps. I usually don’t make a decision until I’ve read up completely. At this point, although I have the C license, I’ll wait until the AB addition so I have finalised my license paperwork. Not in any hurry, but enjoying the research stage.

thanks again
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