Obselete Calibers?

[juggler40]

Hey guys,
Vic police states that there are exempt firearms that do not require a license to own if they fall under the following categories.
1) Manufactured prior to 1900.
2) Does not take cartridge ammunition .
3) If they do take cartridges they have to be no longer commercially available.
Unfortunately I cant find any list of info on obsolete calibers, there is one from the Queensland police and a list from the collectors guild of Victoria, but none from Vic police.. at least to my awareness.

Anyway I've had a long-time interest in the Martini-Henry, and I was wondering whether 577-450 was an obsolete caliber, and if anyone had a list of obsolete calibers that I could read.

Cheers!

[JohnV]

Martini 577x450 is still commercially available even if it's hard to get the Police still see it as available if anyone in the World is advertising a sale . If you could find a cartridge that was absolutely not available commercially then you probably can't find any dies to reload it or cases either . Some old case designs had Berdan primers not Boxer and that creates another problem .
Say you could get custom made cases by Bertam or someone that still leaves you with finding suitable dies and primers . It's not as easy as you might think . If you could identify that cartridge and then make your own dies buying Newlon die blanks and machining them and then make your own brass from modern brass it could possibly be viable . But for the life of me I can't think of a suitable truly obsolete cartridge that fills the bill . I will probably be a European round as there is lots of strange obscure rounds that should be near impossible to by loaded ammo . This site has a list at the bottom of the page . https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/ ... libre-list Then you have to also have a rifle to shoot it in which could be another impossible search and a collectors item worth an arm and a leg . If you have the specs of the cartridge you could get a custom reamer made by JGS or Mansons and re-chamber a modern gun but bore diameter could be an issue as many of the old cartridges had strange bore diameters . So then it's a new custom made barrel . I am getting tired just thinking about it .

[No1Mk3]

Martini 577x450 is still commercially available even if it's hard to get the Police still see it as available if anyone in the World is advertising a sale . If you could find a cartridge that was absolutely not available commercially then you probably can't find any dies to reload it or cases either . Some old case designs had Berdan primers not Boxer and that creates another problem .
Say you could get custom made cases by Bertam or someone that still leaves you with finding suitable dies and primers . It's not as easy as you might think . If you could identify that cartridge and then make your own dies buying Newlon die blanks and machining them and then make your own brass from modern brass it could possibly be viable . But for the life of me I can't think of a suitable truly obsolete cartridge that fills the bill . I will probably be a European round as there is lots of strange obscure rounds that should be near impossible to by loaded ammo . This site has a list at the bottom of the page . https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/ ... libre-list Then you have to also have a rifle to shoot it in which could be another impossible search and a collectors item worth an arm and a leg . If you have the specs of the cartridge you could get a custom reamer made by JGS or Mansons and re-chamber a modern gun but bore diameter could be an issue as many of the old cartridges had strange bore diameters . So then it's a new custom made barrel . I am getting tired just thinking about it .

G'day juggler40
This is wrong info for Victoria, as far as LRD here are concerned 577/450 is obsolete. I own 6 M-H 577/450, 6 Snider 577, 5 Rolling Block in various calibres and several bolt actions such as M71 Mausers, Kropatscheks, Jarmann etc all of which lean on the wall here in my room. I have been inspected 3 times whilst these rifles were here without issue as all are Section 3 exempt. As for the list of obsolete calibres, VicPol are reluctant to post it, I have a copy of the list that was sent to dealers and it is very similar to the NSW one, I don't have a digital copy though and my scanner is kaput so I can't make one.

[No1Mk3]

wall (3).jpg (384.24 KiB) Viewed 3629 times

An old pic of the wall in my room, it has grown since this pic was taken.

[JohnV]

577x 450 is still commercially available ammo .

[JohnV]

577x 450 is still commercially available ammo .

[bladeracer]

577x 450 is still commercially available ammo .

Who makes it?

[No1Mk3]

577x 450 is still commercially available ammo .

Not considered to be in Victoria, on the obsolete list. Not all States have the same calibres listed, but Victorian Licensing takes the view that if you cannot walk into a shop and buy or order from a major manufacturer and it was first issued before 1900 it is obsolete. They do not count small speciality makers. My own Martinis prove this, they have been inspected leaning against the wall unregistered, by DFO's as well as an Inspector from an anti-firearms Task Force without issue. This is Victoria only by the way, other States may differ.

[JohnV]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001932065
If Victoria Police are interpreting it that way then that's good for you but as far as I see it's not consistent with the act and 577 x 450 is commercially still available . Where a problem can potentially come up is a judge may not see it that way .

[bladeracer]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001932065
If Victoria Police are interpreting it that way then that's good for you but as far as I see it's not consistent with the act and 577 x 450 is commercially still available . Where a problem can potentially come up is a judge may not see it that way .

I think it has to be commercially available somewhere in this country for it to count.

[No1Mk3]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001932065
If Victoria Police are interpreting it that way then that's good for you but as far as I see it's not consistent with the act and 577 x 450 is commercially still available . Where a problem can potentially come up is a judge may not see it that way .

I think it has to be commercially available somewhere in this country for it to count.

This is correct, and any Judge is bound by the Law not his interpretation of it. Licensing Services Division of Victoria Police have informed all Dealers and some organizations of the calibres they state are to be considered obsolete regarding the Firearms Act 1996. 577-450 M-H is also listed as obsolete on the NSW Police website. An anti-firearms Task Force has seen my guns, inspected my storage and paperwork, examined the rifles I have leaning against the wall, and said, "You're OK, see ya later".

[Rutabaga]

577x 450 is still commercially available ammo .

Who makes it?

Unique munitions still makes it. Shooters Delight in Brisbane gets it in occasionally, but it costs an arm and a leg.

https://shootersdelight.com.au/product-tag/577-450/ none in stock at the moment, but i have seen it there before.

In NSW it's considered an obsolete calibre.

[bigrich]

wall (3).jpg

An old pic of the wall in my room, it has grown since this pic was taken.

Nice wall . If Zulu’s attack your all set

I love my 1880 sporterised 303 martini