Transporting you rifle laws changed (vic)

[rsj223]

Came across this and was wondering what does
While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle

http://www.firearmscouncil.org.au/index ... -and-ammo/

[AusTac]

So i have a mazda 3 ( for now ) what the f*** am i ment to do if a boot doesn't surfice and my glove box which isn't lockable and actually contains other items and would fit at best maybe 5 boxes of ammo ( 12 guage ) which is 2 rounds of less of trap, do the police actually expect me to get some kind of lock box in the back when i strugle to fit my cased 12 g into already? And its not like i can just pick a bolt whilly nilly to run some form of steel cable to secure my nylon slip case that a pair of scissors and maybe a pair of sire cutters wouldnt sort out anyway...

And apart from rsj223 starting this thread how are we supposed to know the stupid law has changed?

[KWhorenet]

My interpretation is no different than it ever was.

Locked part of the vehicle, being inside the cabin, not lying in the back of a ute with a tarp over it. Particularly if you want to leave it unattended.

Ammo in locked box/tool kit or GLOVE box if it'll fit.

Is it any more or less than that?

[AusTac]

While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle.

Cartridge ammunition is to be stored separately from the firearms in a part of the vehicle not readily accessible by an unauthorised person. A lockable glove box would suffice provided the key to the glove box is kept securely by the holder of the firearm licence and cannot be accessed by persons unauthorised to possess ammunition or firearms.

The way i've interpretrd that is no longer can i carry my ammo in a locked box on the back floor as its not secured to the inside of the vehicle and i would think the cabin wouldn't pass for a lockable component and it wouldn't be 100% out of sight if you looked, and the cabin is pretty easily accessed if you want something, the ammo can't go in the slightly more secure boot because the firearm in is there.. doesn't leave me with anywhere to put my ammo unless i run a cable somewhere into the chassis to " secure " my ammunition and firearm in the rear passenger area

[southeast varmiter]

So are we needing to put the equivalent of a safe in our cars?

[<<Genesis93>>]

This is NOT a law change.

this would be a police policy / interpretation / enforcement change.

They can NOT be allowed to make it up as they go along..... how about the part about complying with the guidelines may still result in charges!!!! WTF is wrong with these guys....

CHASE THE f***ing CRIMS!! Thats right you let them drive away with stolen guns..... FFS

[bluerob]

Use a plastic coated wire security cable and attach that to your car?

I've seen guys use this technique.

Loop the cable through something (I've seen guys modify hild seat anchor points ) and padlock it. Its now secured in the vehicle.

[AusTac]

This is going to be my soloution if it is found to be a law change.. i'm really hoping theres not going to be some kind of " random " spot check or something on the in road to the clay range this afternoon


http://www.bunnings.com.au/cable-looped ... -_p4214681

[<<Genesis93>>]

The police are doing a Robin Hood.... Drawing a LONG BOW in relation to the actual / real / passed by our LEGISLATORS law....

I think a search of court outcomes might be necessary, to see HOW they are convincing the magistrates that these laws have been broken by a shooter driving to the bush or to the range, while being fully licensed to USE and CARRY the firearm and ammo....

###########################
Firearms Act 1996
...
126 Safekeeping of firearms and cartridge ammunition while being carried or used

{firearms}

(1) A person who is carrying or using a category A or B longarm must—
(a) ensure that the firearm is carried and used in a manner that is secure and is not dangerous;
and
(b) must take reasonable precautions to ensure that the firearm is not lost or stolen.
Penalty: 60 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment.

[[[Same for cat c/d penalty doubled 120p/2yrs]]]
[[[Same for cat E penalty quadrupled 240p/4yrs]]]

{Ammunition}
(4) A person who is carrying or using cartridge ammunition must—
(a) ensure that the cartridge ammunition is carried and used in a manner that is secure and is not dangerous; and
(b) must take reasonable precautions to ensure that the cartridge ammunition is not lost or stolen.
Penalty: 60 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment.


Now I would suggest that driving along a public road, with the rifle in the footwell of the passenger seat, no 'padded case', with, say a closed box of ammo on the seat is secure and not dangerous.....

Refer to the only offence relating to carriage in a town or other public place;

130 Offence to carry or use a firearm in certain places
(1) A person must not carry a loaded firearm or use a firearm in a town or populous place or on any
thoroughfare or place open to or used by the public for passage with vehicles.
Penalty: 60 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment.

Yes. Its ONLY AN OFFENCE under firearms law TO **CARRY** in public IF IT IS LOADED!!




I'm as law abiding as the next guy, but when the allow the enforcers to MAKE (up) the law..... specifically targetting the good guy, its a worrying state of affairs. There are already very tough penalties for prohibited individuals (ie crims) to possess anything, particularly the unregistered, shortened, prohibited type of firearms.....


I think an email to our parliamentary dynamic duo is in order.

[rsj223]

This is NOT a law change.

this would be a police policy / interpretation / enforcement change.

They can NOT be allowed to make it up as they go along..... how about the part about complying with the guidelines may still result in charges!!!! WTF is wrong with these guys....

CHASE THE f***ing CRIMS!! Thats right you let them drive away with stolen guns..... FFS

I should have looked a bit closer, its a RULE change from that page

[Noisydad]

I only have the one vehicle which is a single cab, tray back ute. I have no behind the seat space - in fact NO cab space. I use a locked tool box bolted to the tray with a locked ammo box in it.

[Chronos]

Download and read the appropriate legislation for your state and follow it to the letter. Anything else is just "guidelines"

If you feel you need to carry a copy in the glove box and show anyone who thinks they make the law.

Chronos

[Gwion]

Law V Regulations.....

Wouldn't like to test the beak on it!

[<<Genesis93>>]

Law V Regulations.....

Wouldn't like to test the beak on it!

Do you mean Law v policy/guidelines??

Regs are 'legislative instruments' created under the Act, the Regs can change without Parliamentary input...Act / Regs, same same in the courts...

The problem here is that the police are not too concerned with your own interpretation, whether you yourself believe your firearms are 'secure and not dangerous', (= the extent of the letter of the law) they will read THEIR OWN POLICY ...... and while your arguing the point your favourite target rifles will be 'securely' locked in the back of the police car.... and they'll be filling out a few sheets of offences

[Gwion]

ACT (Law):
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas ... fa1996102/

V's

REGS (Reugulatory stipulations or official interpretation of the Law, ie: the law as it is enforced by police and tested in the courts):
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas ... fr2006211/

Not really the same thing.

[Gwion]

In this particular case, the Regs are set out by the Police Commissioners in each state.

Totally agree, you can test any interpretation of the Regs (policy) but it is going to cost you time, money, charges and your firearms until (if) you win the court action by proving your case.

[Spudman75]

Use a plastic coated wire security cable and attach that to your car?

I've seen guys use this technique.

Loop the cable through something (I've seen guys modify hild seat anchor points ) and padlock it. Its now secured in the vehicle.

Yep, unless the entire car is stolen then it is secure. You have taken 'reasonable' steps to prevent it being stolen.

[happyhunter]

.

[Spudman75]

In this particular case, the Regs are set out by the Police Commissioners in each state.

Totally agree, you can test any interpretation of the Regs (policy) but it is going to cost you time, money, charges and your firearms until (if) you win the court action by proving your case.

In SA they are moving 99% of the stuff into Regs. We recently got a new Bicycle "Law" but it is actually a change in Regs, no changes in the Act. It is driven entirely by SAPOL and motivated by lobby groups.

The new SA Firearms Bill 2015 is doing the same thing... all major things that you can get into trouble for are in the Regs (which haven't been written yet). The Bill puts in a series of offences classified from A-F (Page 44) but all of these are to be defined in the yet unwritten Regs...

Regs = No Parliamentary control, your Vote doesn't count and you cant get them changed
ACT = Your vote counts here...

So we should work on getting Regs abolished!!

[southeast varmiter]

You would need to demonstrate that the regulation conflicts with the act to get it amended. There is a process for this but quite difficult.

[southeast varmiter]

I have it on very good authority the next assault will be on ammunition.

[Wes]

While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle.

Cartridge ammunition is to be stored separately from the firearms in a part of the vehicle not readily accessible by an unauthorised person. A lockable glove box would suffice provided the key to the glove box is kept securely by the holder of the firearm licence and cannot be accessed by persons unauthorised to possess ammunition or firearms.

The way i've interpretrd that is no longer can i carry my ammo in a locked box on the back floor as its not secured to the inside of the vehicle and i would think the cabin wouldn't pass for a lockable component and it wouldn't be 100% out of sight if you looked, and the cabin is pretty easily accessed if you want something, the ammo can't go in the slightly more secure boot because the firearm in is there.. doesn't leave me with anywhere to put my ammo unless i run a cable somewhere into the chassis to " secure " my ammunition and firearm in the rear passenger area

I'm not reading it the same way as you.

Break it down bit by bit.

While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles...

Out of sight, self explanatory.

Rifle in a bag, ammunition in a locked box would be separate receptacles. It's "receptacles" not "safes".

...that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle.

Secured to the inside of your vehicle or in a lockable component.

I understand your point about a car not being a vault (e.g. all it takes is breaking a window to get in) but we are talking about carriage of a firearm here, not storage. The cabin itself is a lockable component, as is the boot.

If you left something in the car unattended for the night while you were asleep inside that would be a different thing to carriage.

Cartridge ammunition is to be stored separately from the firearms in a part of the vehicle not readily accessible by an unauthorised person.

Ammunition in a locked box addresses this as covered above.

The way i've interpretrd that is no longer can i carry my ammo in a locked box on the back floor as its not secured to the inside of the vehicle

You're mixing information now, no where does it says ammunition must be "secured to the inside of the vehicle", it only says that for firearms. It says ammunition is to be "stored separately from the firearms in a part of the vehicle not readily accessible by an unauthorised person"

If it's in a locked box in the boot it is not "readily accessible" by an unauthorised person sitting in the cabin.

IMO / 2c / my interpretation

[southeast varmiter]

Came across this and was wondering what does
While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle

http://www.firearmscouncil.org.au/index ... -and-ammo/

Apparently the police have edited the guidelines to "should" rather "will"
But speeding now can be construed to be compromising firearm safety.

[<<Genesis93>>]

the words are very important.....should and may are optional - while must is mandatory. So the police derived drivel is sufficiently flexible.... while they want to believe it is -IT-

What they SHOULD do IS REFLECT THE ACTUAL woring of the law and explain how we, the common punter, can do our best to comply RATHER that creating their OWN interpretation....

[anthillinside]

Try not to read to much into it.
"While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle"
Rifle Bag = Receptacle
Ammo Box = Receptacle (separate from above)
Boot = Lockable component of your vehicle (Or Tool Chest in a Ute . but Bolt it Down or it's not a "component" of the vehicle) also "Out of Sight"
Hatch Back? no lockable component so must be covered for "Out Of Site" and "Secured to the inside of the vehicle"
So interpret "Secured" ..
Steel Cable & Padlock = Yes in anyone’s language.
Paracord tied to the seat belt??? Possible but I wouldn’t try defend it.

[<<Genesis93>>]

So what about those who are well aware of the actual 'law' but have never happened upon the vicpol webpage with the police spin...??

[anthillinside]

So what about those who are well aware of the actual 'law' but have never happened upon the vicpol webpage with the police spin...??

GOTCHA

[<<Genesis93>>]

I can imagine.... you're pulled over by the cops, they say you've 'broken the law'... you then proceed to pull out both the Firearm Act as well as the Firearms Regulations, and ask the good constable to direct you to the relevant Section or regulation;

Oh no, its not in there..... ITS ON THE WEBSITE...

[anthillinside]

And in the mean time if Mr Plod is having a bad day you've just guaranteed to join him (in having a very bad day)

[KWhorenet]

Download and read the appropriate legislation for your state and follow it to the letter. Anything else is just "guidelines"

If you feel you need to carry a copy in the glove box and show anyone who thinks they make the law.

Chronos

Best advice for sure.