Legal storage of primers & powder

[doc]

I am looking at the possibility of reloading my own ammunition and are just trying to work out all the facts before I get myself into something more than I bargain for.

In particular, I am wanting some ideas to ensure that when I get powder and primers I am 100% legally.

I have discovered that I will need to change what I originally had planned for storage. I had planned to store them at the opposite end of the house to where I sleep in a spare bedroom but have since found that this would not be legal and that I have to store them separate to the house that I occupy. An open carport isn’t secure, which leaves me to consider the back shed.

As I’m concerned about environmental changes (high temperatures in summer and humidity) - I thought that I could insulate the storage by putting them in an old fridge, but have found that this also does not meet legal requirements so I'm back at square one.

[bigM]

What state are you in ?

In NSW you simply have to store them so they are not accessible to unauthorised persons. ie lock them up.
You do not have to store them separately and the only restriction is you can only store 12kg of powder.

Legal to have unlimited ammunition, unlimited primers and up to 12kg of powder if you have a firearms license;
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2013/476/part3/div4/subdiv2/sec48

Not required to comply with other storage if you hold a firearms license - paragraph (7);
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2013/476/part5/div4/sec84

Unauthorised persons must not have access;
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2013/476/part5/div7/sec101


ADI recommends that their powder is stored below 25 degrees C.

Some US powder manufacturers recommend that you store powder in a locked box made of 1 inch wood or other locked container that can blow out ie filing cabinet or thin sheet metal cupboard.

Note that smokeless gunpowder only explodes at very high temperatures but it does burn very quickly.
If it is stored in a strong container (ie a safe) burning powder can build up a lot of pressure until the container explodes.
Safes are NOT recommended for powder storage. Yes WA we are talking about you.

ADI says its powder should have a 10 year shelf life if stored under 25 degrees C.
I have heard from a few reliable sources that they have stored powder in a locked cupboard in their garage where the temp goes from 5 to 40 degrees for over 15 years and it still performed as expected. Not recommended but powder is reasonably robust.

For larger quantities most regs require separate storage for powder and primers.

I have a locked 3 drawer filing cabinet that I use. The top and middle drawers have polystyrene boxes (from diet meals!) with powder stored in them. The bottom drawer has primers. I have placed a 20mm plywood sheet in the bottom of the middle drawer (just in case).
I also lock the study door but this is more so I can leave powder in the press powder measure and still comply.

[bladeracer]

What state are you in ?

In NSW you simply have to store them so they are not accessible to unauthorised persons. ie lock them up.
You do not have to store them separately and the only restriction is you can only store 12kg of powder.

ADI recommends that their powder is stored below 25 degrees C.

In Victoria it's 20kg of smokeless and 5kg of black.
I understand primers are limited to 10,000, I'm not yet sure if that includes percussion caps but I believe it does.

[bladeracer]

I am looking at the possibility of reloading my own ammunition and are just trying to work out all the facts before I get myself into something more than I bargain for.

In particular, I am wanting some ideas to ensure that when I get powder and primers I am 100% legally.

I have discovered that I will need to change what I originally had planned for storage. I had planned to store them at the opposite end of the house to where I sleep in a spare bedroom but have since found that this would not be legal and that I have to store them separate to the house that I occupy. An open carport isn’t secure, which leaves me to consider the back shed.

As I’m concerned about environmental changes (high temperatures in summer and humidity) - I thought that I could insulate the storage by putting them in an old fridge, but have found that this also does not meet legal requirements so I'm back at square one.

I have heard of this "requirement" about not storing ammo in the same building as the firearms but I've not seen it in any official form.
Do you have a link to where you got this information?

[doc]

Good morning...

I'm in Victoria...

Originally I got the information from this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... G4QucUDq38
DFO Answers 20 Questions on Vic Gun laws. (Interesting watch if you have 20 minutes up your sleeve.)

I decided to confirm what he was talking about and searched through the regs. I found the following:


DANGEROUS GOODS (EXPLOSIVES) REGULATIONS 2011 - REG 63

Explosives to be kept secure

(1) A person who stores explosives must ensure that any storage of explosives—

(a) is kept securely locked, except when it is required to be open for purposes relating to its use or management; and

(b) is kept in a secure building or container that is locked, and is separate from buildings in which persons live.


and...


DANGEROUS GOODS (EXPLOSIVES) REGULATIONS 2011 - REG 69 - Part 5
Explosives not to be stored in safes or refrigerators A person who stores any explosives, except explosives of Classification Code 1.4S, must not store the explosives in a document safe, money safe or refrigerator.


I then contacted Worksafe to ask them directly to see whether or not we are exempt from the above as we are exempt from requiring a DG license and the reply I received back tells me Reg 63 still applies to me - even though I am exempt from a license being a licensed firearms. However they did add (and I quote) "though a locked garage, even adjoining, would be acceptable due to practicability". I guess that's nice if it applies to you...

They also confirmed that I cannot store gunpowder in a fridge - but I can store safety ammunition in a fridge. (So once the bullets are loaded it's OK - but not powder in a container).

I'm left with a DFO, the regs and a reply from Worksafe all telling me the same thing and I want to set myself up from the start being completely legal so I'm looking for what good options are available for me to store powder and primers outside of my house...

ADI recommends that their powder is stored below 25 degrees C.

That's precisely what I'm concerned about. I'm looking for ideas on how can I meet legal requirements whilst also meeting the recommendation of the manufacturers?

[Oldbloke]

I think you will find that regulation is in relation to work places. E.g. fireworks manurfacturing. To be sure I would need to read that reg. Its been a few years.So I might be wrong.
These arguments about worksafe pop up from time to time.
The reality is they are not interested in someone with 10 or 20 kg of powder for reloading. If it all goes pear shaped maybe, but I doubt it.. We dont even need a dangerous good licence.
They have their hands full with all of the serious injuries and fatalities we have in workplaces every year.

Lock it up in a wooden or lightly built metal box. (Perhaps vented ) Yes better in the shed. Avoid temperature extremes, will be good for 20 yrs.

Dont advertise you have firearms , ammo, or powder on the property.

[doc]

I think you will find that regulation is in relation to work places. E.g. fireworks manurfacturing. To be sure I would need to read that reg. Its been a few years.So I might be wrong.

That's what I originally thought as well, but I have contacted Worksafe to confirm this - and the reply I got is that it's applicable to all storage of powder - whether it's work related or home related and that we are not exempt because it's not work related. (The DFO in the video link above also mentioned this)...

These arguments about worksafe pop up from time to time.
The reality is they are not interested in someone with 10 or 20 kg of powder for reloading. If it all goes pear shaped maybe, but I doubt it.. We dont even need a dangerous good licence.

If you read the regs - the part that states we don't require a DG license specifically states that it does not exclude us from all other storage requirements. (This is why I first contacted them - to confirm one way or the other)...

They have their hands full with all of the serious injuries and fatalities we have in workplaces every year.

Agreed - however as originally mentioned I want to remain 100% legal. In addition - I wouldn't put it past insurance companies to completely void any insurance payout for house and contents in the event of a fire using this regulation as well...

Lock it up in a wooden or lightly built metal box. (Perhaps vented ) Yes better in the shed. Avoid temperature extremes, will be good for 20 yrs.

Avoiding the temperature extreme's is what I'm trying to find out how to do.

[doc]

Does anyone think making a wooden box with another wooden box in the middle, with dirt as insulation between the two work well for protecting the contents from heat if I was to store that outside in a garden shed?

(For what it's worth - I'm not wanting to have an argument, or even debate the issue on legal requirements.

What I'm looking for is ideas on how I can meet the storage requirements whilst also protecting them from extreme heat or humidity. (I only responded with the regs because people asked questions about where I got the information from)... but I fear that this thread is turning from different ideas on how I can store these items to questions and debates on regulations. )

[Oldbloke]

Wooden box in an old esky?

And keep in mind the 25c max is a recommendation. If it ocassionaly gets above that it only shortens the life of the powder a small degree. Different if its over 25c for most of the time.

[doc]

An old esky... of course. Maybe I'm trying to think too complicated. I don't need to keep them cool - just keep the temperature regulated. Thanks!