Details recorded when buying powder and primers

[juststarting]

I think this may have been covered, but an interesting observation... I purchased primers the other day and the shop recorded my licence details. Same shop, buying powder, same story. I was told that they have to now. However, between then and now, I purchased powder at a different store - no details recorded. Also, no details recorded buying .22 ammo. I was told, primers and powder - it is now a requirement, but not factory ammo.

Feels weird.

[happyhunter]

It's another point less burden on the gun dealers and a security risk to us all. A gun shop in Geelong had their ledger stolen and surprise, surprise, the house break ins began.

[AusTac]

I had that too out east, one shop ( my usual ) - no worries here ya go, the other shop was writing stuff down left right and centre.. i'm no fruit cake but i still don't like it

[bladeracer]

I think this may have been covered, but an interesting observation... I purchased primers the other day and the shop recorded my licence details. Same shop, buying powder, same story. I was told that they have to now. However, between then and now, I purchased powder at a different store - no details recorded. Also, no details recorded buying .22 ammo. I was told, primers and powder - it is now a requirement, but not factory ammo.

Feels weird.

Curious.
My local already knows all my details so maybe they're filling in the paperwork on their time rather than mine?
I bought 2000 primers about four weeks ago and I'll be getting some more AR2206H and AR2208 this week, I'll try to remember to update this afterwards.

[Wylie27]

I bought powder last week and they had to sight my licence only.

[juststarting]

Ye, I am used to sighting the license. But this was literally writing in the ledger of some sort.


What I find curious, is, why it's only done with components, but not factory ammo.

[bladeracer]

Maybe trying to see how much we're stockpiling?

[juststarting]

Yeah, no idea.

[scotty87]

In QLD its a photocopy of your driver's licence the first time you buy at a shop then what you buy each time is recorded. Encountered this only when buying powder, primers just sight firearms licence.

[deadkitty]

I wonder if this is just a Victorian thing?, in NSW they write down my details when buying firearms and ammo of any sort, but, have never written down details for my reloading supplies. Given the recent surge of interest in reloading, perhaps the powers to be think they should keep an eye on it too?.

[brett1868]

In NSW it's a legal requirement to record ammunition sales in a form approved by the registry, be it in a Zion's journal or electronically. Many shops have their POS systems setup so as to allow reporting of sales of ammunition which can be submitted to the registry if required. Any shop in NSW selling ammo without recording the proper details in in breach of the Act.

[happyhunter]

Maybe trying to see how much we're stockpiling?

The Victoria police pushed for the law because they claimed a small number of licensed owners were providing hand loaded ammunition to criminals. I don't know if they had any proof of this.

[wade06]

Maybe trying to see how much we're stockpiling?

The Victoria police pushed for the law because they claimed a small number of licensed owners were providing hand loaded ammunition to criminals. I don't know if they had any proof of this.

Does sound like a logical way to get ammo if you have an unregistered gun.

Every shop i have bought ammo from has asked for my details.

[brett1868]

Now the really stupid part of this legislation....I cannot purchase pistol ammunition without showing the registration of a pistol that uses that ammo. However and this is the stupid bit, there is no law in place preventing me from buying the cases, powder, projectiles and primers to make my own. Anyone with a Cat A license can produce pistol ammunition though its only once the components are assembled that it becomes illegal for them to possess.

[juststarting]

The Victoria police pushed for the law because they claimed a small number of licensed owners were providing hand loaded ammunition to criminals. I don't know if they had any proof of this.

I heard this too.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Maybe trying to see how much we're stockpiling?

The Victoria police pushed for the law because they claimed a small number of licensed owners were providing hand loaded ammunition to criminals. I don't know if they had any proof of this.

What law???
Recording your details is BS. There's no requirement to record details of ammo, if there's a 'small number' of licensed owners then they should go out and bust their asses....unless its another fantasy, they love to talk fantasy, like Steve Hanna Fontana with his some kind of Automatic bolt action Savage...

Its an offence to sell ammo, without a licence, just as its an offence to acquire ammo without a licence..... so the laws are covered, further than that its a compliance matter...

Just as Vicpol suggested they know WHO the gun toting crime gangs in the western suburbs are, EVEN down to a specific number of suburbs.....SO GO BUST THEM!!!


As far as recording details, I really dont like the handwritten ledger sitting on the counter, but its a 'legal' necessity......
A photo copy of my licence and/or additional ledger/exercise book with my details sitting around the gunshop??? No thanks, I would cancel the purchase and go elsewhere...

[doc]

Maybe trying to see how much we're stockpiling?

The Victoria police pushed for the law because they claimed a small number of licensed owners were providing hand loaded ammunition to criminals. I don't know if they had any proof of this.

I was wondering how effective logging down who's purchased primers and powder would be for vicpol in tracking criminal use?

AFAIK, there's no serial numbers, and given the number of people who reload the best I could imagine they could hope to achieve is get a list of everyone who's loaded using that brand of primers. (Maybe forensics could also work out the powder used, but still.. the combination of the two seems likely to be used by too many different people for it to be of value to Vicpol for serious investigations).

At first glance, it seems to me like this is another brain child of someone who doesn't have a clue but wants to be seen to be 'doing something constructive', only ending up with a lot of meaningless work for others, and creating yet another security risk for licensed owners.

[wade06]

Now the really stupid part of this legislation....I cannot purchase pistol ammunition without showing the registration of a pistol that uses that ammo. However and this is the stupid bit, there is no law in place preventing me from buying the cases, powder, projectiles and primers to make my own. Anyone with a Cat A license can produce pistol ammunition though its only once the components are assembled that it becomes illegal for them to possess.

Yeah, it is strange.

It is also strange that I can buy ammo of a different caliber to a gun that i own.
Its a wonder there isn't an online check that requires the LGS enters my licence number and I am only allowed to buy ammo for calibers that I own.
Likewise with reloading projectiles and cases.

Not that i'm proposing it should happen.

[bladeracer]

Yeah, it is strange.

It is also strange that I can buy ammo of a different caliber to a gun that i own.
Its a wonder there isn't an online check that requires the LGS enters my licence number and I am only allowed to buy ammo for calibers that I own.
Likewise with reloading projectiles and cases.

Not that i'm proposing it should happen.

Already in WA.

[sandgroperbill]

Yup. In WA I have to take a paper license listing my firearms, calibers and serial numbers as well as a plastic firearms license id card, and have to show this simultaneously to purchase ammo, powder or primers

[wade06]

Its a wonder this loophole hasn't been closed in all states.

[Wylie27]

Why is it strange? It's not a loop hole.. it's common sense..

Me: hey bro I am coming up the farm this weekend, want me to get you anything?
Bro: hell yeah pick me up some 308 and 22 the boys need more!
Me: no worries...

I don't own a 308.. but I can tell you I will shoot the barrel out when I get there..

What I find funny is for "pistol" ammo in NSW I can't buy 9mm without owning it, but if Brett gives me 9mm that's ok! I can keep that in my safe...

[wade06]

I agree it's handy to get someone else to get the odd box of ammo if needed.
I was more looking at it being a "loophole" from the governments point of view.

From their position: Say Joe had an illegal 243, at the moment he could buy 243 ammo with no questions asked (except WA).
If ammo was tied to the guns Joe owned he would need to know someone with a 243 to get him that ammo for his illegal 243 which makes it a lot tougher.

Wouldn't be surprised is other states follow WA one day.

[brett1868]

What I find funny is for "pistol" ammo in NSW I can't buy 9mm without owning it, but if Brett gives me 9mm that's ok! I can keep that in my safe...

Not sure about having possession of pistol ammo without having a pistol of that cal registered in your name. The confusing part would be that if I lend you a 9mm then I have to also supply you the ammo as you shouldn't be able to buy it. Cat A & B holders can possess any ammo they like even if they don't have a rifle registered to them in that chambering because they can borrow / lend rifles.

[wade06]

Cat A & B holders can possess any ammo they like even if they don't have a rifle registered to them in that chambering because they can borrow / lend rifles.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[bladeracer]

Cat A & B holders can possess any ammo they like even if they don't have a rifle registered to them in that chambering because they can borrow / lend rifles.

Not in WA though. To borrow somebody else's firearm you need to add it to your licence first. You can use somebody else's firearm as long as the owner maintains control over it.

[Wylie27]

What I find funny is for "pistol" ammo in NSW I can't buy 9mm without owning it, but if Brett gives me 9mm that's ok! I can keep that in my safe...

Not sure about having possession of pistol ammo without having a pistol of that cal registered in your name. The confusing part would be that if I lend you a 9mm then I have to also supply you the ammo as you shouldn't be able to buy it. Cat A & B holders can possess any ammo they like even if they don't have a rifle registered to them in that chambering because they can borrow / lend rifles.

It got brought up in the safe handling course at SMPC. The law says something about purchasing and not possessing. It's ok to possess just not purchase. Written by politicians

[<<Genesis93>>]

Its a wonder this loophole hasn't been closed in all states.

WTF??
My bat senses cause my ears to prick up at most of your comments, David, sorry Sam... sorry... whats your name??

[doc]

What I find funny is for "pistol" ammo in NSW I can't buy 9mm without owning it, but if Brett gives me 9mm that's ok! I can keep that in my safe...

Not sure about having possession of pistol ammo without having a pistol of that cal registered in your name. The confusing part would be that if I lend you a 9mm then I have to also supply you the ammo as you shouldn't be able to buy it. Cat A & B holders can possess any ammo they like even if they don't have a rifle registered to them in that chambering because they can borrow / lend rifles.

I would imagine pistols can be loaned, or ammo used at the range in someone else's pistol - just like any other firearm law?

Those rules requiring you to produce evidence you own such a gun is ridiculous. You only require a license of that category to be able to shoot one (regardless of who's name it's in).

Case example: My wife holds a guns licenses, and uses my firearms but yet has no firearm in her own name. Does this mean in WA she wouldn't be allowed to pick up ammo from down the street - even though she's licensed and uses my firearms?

Just another law that needs to be included in this 'review' I think!

[bladeracer]

I would imagine pistols can be loaned, or ammo used at the range in someone else's pistol - just like any other firearm law?

Those rules requiring you to produce evidence you own such a gun is ridiculous. You only require a license of that category to be able to shoot one (regardless of who's name it's in).

Case example: My wife holds a guns licenses, and uses my firearms but yet has no firearm in her own name. Does this mean in WA she wouldn't be allowed to pick up ammo from down the street - even though she's licensed and uses my firearms?

Just another law that needs to be included in this 'review' I think!

Yep, and she can't use your firearms if you aren't around either - WA sucks in almost every firearms aspect except one. In WA you can allow any unlicenced person to use your firearms under your supervision in any place it's legal to have those firearms.