Bolting gun safe in shed! Q&A -Victoria-

[Skitz]

Hey guys Skitz here!

I'll make it quick and simple

Just about to get my CAT A&B license, wanting to put safe in shed.

Concrete floor, little 4 pain glass window and made out of corrugated iron as any shed is.

I plan on using 4 dyna bolts, covering safe with a tarp and removing my power tools from there for added security.

Moving house soon but needed to know if this is acceptable and legal short term. I've looked around the forums and haven't seen any specific answers.

Cheers blokes

[AusTac]

Whilst " technically " legal it seems frowned upon unless its some fully sick tough as impenetrable shed which by the sounds of it it's not. If anything were to happen although legal you can still be charged, also if you get an inspection expect the cop to not be thrilled with it

[duncan61]

You will be updating the Address so secure it properly when you move.Can you have it in the new house?It is better behind locked doors in a house.I fitted a new lock to the back door when I moved to a new address as only the flyscreen locked before so I fitted a bigass reinforced dead bolt

[Skitz]

cheers guys! Well i might just take Aus tac for his word, bolt it down which is no problem and let them frown for now, will be going in garage next house and if possible indoors, wife wouldnt like that haha

[No1Mk3]

G'day Skitz,
it is perfectly legal providing the shed door is lockable, either by a normal latch lock or a hasp and clasp with padlock. Use decent dyna bolts, and if possible run a Tek screw through the top into the shed frame, Cheers.

[Oldbloke]

G'day Skitz,
it is perfectly legal providing the shed door is lockable, either by a normal latch lock or a hasp and clasp with padlock. Use decent dyna bolts, and if possible run a Tek screw through the top into the shed frame, Cheers.

Spot on. That's what I have done. I'm in Victoria.

[coroboreeboy]

A friend of mine who lives in NSW had his guns stored in a safe in the shed. We know that the police had no issues with this storage because they didn't raise any complaints when his guns were all stolen!!!!!!!
He now has a gun safe in the house.

[Daddybang]

If I was moving I would hide the gun safe under a bench or something like that.I would not fix it to a wall and floor only to take it out again.

Gday skitz don't do the above
If ya safe weighs less than 150kgs it must be bolted down if the police see it unbolted you risk losing everything.

[bladeracer]

If I was moving I would hide the gun safe under a bench or something like that.I would not fix it to a wall and floor only to take it out again.

Gday skitz don't do the above
If ya safe weighs less than 150kgs it must be bolted down if the police see it unbolted you risk losing everything.

There must be some grey zone when moving a safe to a new place of permanent storage. The Act can't possibly require a new safe to be installed before you can remove the old safe from your current residence. Until you advise them of the changed place of permanent storage I would think you'd be under "travelling with firearms" requirements? In which case, I would think having your firearms locked in a safe that's not bolted down would have to be considered as "taking all reasonable precautions" to prevent loss of your firearms.
Maybe email your local Firearms Officer and ask him (get it in writing) what you should be doing?

[Gwion]

If I was moving I would hide the gun safe under a bench or something like that.I would not fix it to a wall and floor only to take it out again.

Gday skitz don't do the above
If ya safe weighs less than 150kgs it must be bolted down if the police see it unbolted you risk losing everything.

There must be some grey zone when moving a safe to a new place of permanent storage. The Act can't possibly require a new safe to be installed before you can remove the old safe from your current residence. Until you advise them of the changed place of permanent storage I would think you'd be under "travelling with firearms" requirements? In which case, I would think having your firearms locked in a safe that's not bolted down would have to be considered as "taking all reasonable precautions" to prevent loss of your firearms.
Maybe email your local Firearms Officer and ask him (get it in writing) what you should be doing?

Nope. No grey areas. You either comply or you do not comply.

[bladeracer]

There must be some grey zone when moving a safe to a new place of permanent storage. The Act can't possibly require a new safe to be installed before you can remove the old safe from your current residence. Until you advise them of the changed place of permanent storage I would think you'd be under "travelling with firearms" requirements? In which case, I would think having your firearms locked in a safe that's not bolted down would have to be considered as "taking all reasonable precautions" to prevent loss of your firearms.
Maybe email your local Firearms Officer and ask him (get it in writing) what you should be doing?

Nope. No grey areas. You either comply or you do not comply.

Yes, I understand that, but security compliance only applies at the place of permanent storage - which you are leaving.

[bladeracer]

My brother and I have discussed this as when he visits me he must comply with the "travelling with firearms" laws, in Victoria, and also under the requirements of his ACT licence. But my firearms here at home must comply with "permanent storage" requirements.
The problem is, for a period I did not have alarms in place as required for storing more than fifteen firearms. So, is it legally better to ensure I comply with storage requirements by not putting his firearms into my safes and leaving them to his "travelling with firearms" responsibilities, or put his firearms into my safes but putting me in breach of the storage requirements?
We decided that as he is travelling then his firearms are not permanently stored at my premises and thus do not breach my compliance, and putting his firearms into my safes is the most "reasonable" means he has of ensuring they are secure.

As the OP is moving to a new address I fail to see why he isn't in a similar position. Until he installs the gun safe and advises firearms of his new permanent storage address he should merely have to comply with travelling requirements. However, as I suggested, it would be smart to ask the people that would be enforcing the law rather than a forum.

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
I would agree with your view, because you're relocating, and have seven days to notify change of permanent storage, the day you shift the safe you are "in transit" so abide by the guidelines for travelling with firearms. Get to the new joint and install your safe, take the rifles out of the boot or wherever you carried them, and all is good. Don't go to the pub to celebrate first. Cheers

[AusTac]

My brother and I have discussed this as when he visits me he must comply with the "travelling with firearms" laws, in Victoria, and also under the requirements of his ACT licence. But my firearms here at home must comply with "permanent storage" requirements.
The problem is, for a period I did not have alarms in place as required for storing more than fifteen firearms. So, is it legally better to ensure I comply with storage requirements by not putting his firearms into my safes and leaving them to his "travelling with firearms" responsibilities, or put his firearms into my safes but putting me in breach of the storage requirements?
We decided that as he is travelling then his firearms are not permanently stored at my premises and thus do not breach my compliance, and putting his firearms into my safes is the most "reasonable" means he has of ensuring they are secure.

As the OP is moving to a new address I fail to see why he isn't in a similar position. Until he installs the gun safe and advises firearms of his new permanent storage address he should merely have to comply with travelling requirements. However, as I suggested, it would be smart to ask the people that would be enforcing the law rather than a forum.

Thats actually a really interesting interpretation of the law, never thought about it like that.

[Gwion]

I highly doubt the police will agree with that interpretation. I would be inclined to fix it at you current address and not offer yourself as a test case for BR's interpretation of the legislation. It's half an hour's work to ensure your legally safe.

[bladeracer]

I highly doubt the police will agree with that interpretation. I would be inclined to fix it at you current address and not offer yourself as a test case for BR's interpretation of the legislation. It's half an hour's work to ensure your legally safe.

Installing the safe is not relevant as the firearms are still not compliantly stored during that half hour according to you.

[Gwion]

No mate. You are extrapolating that he is in transit from a simple "I'm moving soon" comment. Soon might be weeks or a couple of months away. If you're happy to skate on the edge of the law and risk your firearms and licence, then that is your prerogative but encouraging others to do so on the basis of an interpretation of the law dreamed up by yourself and your brother is kind of irresponsible.

Obviously you can have your firearms out of strict safe storage under many circumstances but having an unfixed safe for any length of time beyond what it takes to install it is probably pushing a little beyond what the police are going to take kindly to.

[bladeracer]

No mate. You are extrapolating that he is in transit from a simple "I'm moving soon" comment. Soon might be weeks or a couple of months away. If you're happy to skate on the edge of the law and risk your firearms and licence, then that is your prerogative but encouraging others to do so on the basis of an interpretation of the law dreamed up by yourself and your brother is kind of irresponsible.

Obviously you can have your firearms out of strict safe storage under many circumstances but having an unfixed safe for any length of time beyond what it takes to install it is probably pushing a little beyond what the police are going to take kindly to.

You seem to have entirely ignored the OP's post. He is merely asking if it is acceptable to bolt his safe down in his shed.
"Concrete floor, little 4 pain glass window and made out of corrugated iron as any shed is. I plan on using 4 dyna bolts, covering safe with a tarp and removing my power tools from there for added security. Moving house soon but needed to know if this is acceptable and legal short term."

And you are completely forgetting the requirement to inform of change of storage address.
He has 14 days maximum to notify change of address and/or storage address.

Which part of my interpretation do you consider implausible?
You seem to believe that when moving house you're firearms must go from a safe immediately into another safe.

My statement was aimed specifically at the suggestion further down the discussion of using an unbolted safe for storage while moving house.
And in both instances I recommended asking Firearms Branch so I don't see how you can even suggest I'm encouraging anybody to do anything I suggested.

[Gwion]

The suggestion was to not bother bolting the safe in the current shed as it would move shortly. This suggestion and any arguments in its favour I find quite irresponsible.

I recognise that you suggested checking with police but you are also making some pretty rash assumptions. Totally agree that while in the actual move he only has to comply with transport laws but at either end he should have his safe fixed in place as soon as practicable.

[bladeracer]

The suggestion was to not bother bolting the safe in the current shed as it would move shortly. This suggestion and any arguments in its favour I find quite irresponsible.

I recognise that you suggested checking with police but you are also making some pretty rash assumptions. Totally agree that while in the actual move he only has to comply with transport laws but at either end he should have his safe fixed in place as soon as practicable.

I agree with you, but I never saw any suggestion about using an unbolted safe in his current residence.
It certainly was not something suggested by myself...

Edit: I went back through the thread and I now see that Duncan did indeed make exactly that suggestion, before it was deleted. I agree with you, that would be bloody stupid.

"duncan61 wrote: If I was moving I would hide the gun safe under a bench or something like that.I would not fix it to a wall and floor only to take it out again."

[Gwion]

All good, mate.

[Oldbloke]

Hey guys Skitz here!

I'll make it quick and simple

Just about to get my CAT A&B license, wanting to put safe in shed.

Concrete floor, little 4 pain glass window and made out of corrugated iron as any shed is.

I plan on using 4 dyna bolts, covering safe with a tarp and removing my power tools from there for added security.

Moving house soon but needed to know if this is acceptable and legal short term. I've looked around the forums and haven't seen any specific answers.

Cheers blokes

When it comes to firearms each state is different so beware of people other than Vic helping here. They may provide misleading info.

Bolted down in the the shed is OK provided the shed is locked. As mention earlier also good to bolt to a wall joist. If the new firearms arrive before you move to the new residence the safe must be bolted down. Often new purchases and licences attract an inspection these days. If you get inspected and it's not fixed to floor &/or wall you risk losing both.
When you move, just prepare the new location and then transport everything and bolt down the safe. You then have I think 14 days to notify the firearms department. Might then get another inspection.

Don't get confused,
Safe must be fixed to floor &/or wall.
Firearms in safe unless transporting or on use.
Ammo locked up separately.

When transporting.
Out of sight, preferably locked in boot or container.
Ammo locked up in box or glove box.
Consider a trigger lock.
Always leave in car locked.
Only licenced people have access. This can be tricky if an unlicensed person is travelling with you, hence the trigger lock.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Whilst " technically " legal it seems frowned upon unless its some fully sick tough as impenetrable shed which by the sounds of it it's not. If anything were to happen although legal you can still be charged, also if you get an inspection expect the cop to not be thrilled with it

Charged with what??

If the safe is fixed OR over 150kg and 'not easily penetrable' of 'hardwood or steel'...

Thats all that matters... as far as the 'receptacle' goes...

[<<Genesis93>>]

G'day Skitz,
it is perfectly legal providing the shed door is lockable, either by a normal latch lock or a hasp and clasp with padlock. Use decent dyna bolts, and if possible run a Tek screw through the top into the shed frame, Cheers.

Where is that stated? required?....logical, reasonable yes... 'law' no