What happens if your firearm is stolen

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by gherx » 06 Jan 2014, 10:29 am

Heya,

Haven't had a firearm stolen thankfully, I've got my gun safe and everything in order.

This is all new to me though and got me wondering what happens if your firearm is stolen?

Anyone had it happen? If so, how were the police in dealing with it.

The little spree of break ins I've read about in Tassie lately got me wondering.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Yelp » 06 Jan 2014, 10:38 am

If you're security is all above board, nothing to you.

If it got stolen because you left your rifle on the couch, you'd be deep in the do do.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Humir » 06 Jan 2014, 10:44 am

Yep, there's been a bit of a spate of firearm thefts .

14 got pinched from one bloke about 2 weeks ago here, and there have been a couple of smaller ones around the same time.

Haven't seen anything in the news about them recovering anything from the big theft yet :(
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by RDobber » 06 Jan 2014, 12:51 pm

There have been a few from memory.

One of the guys had a pair or rifles stolen from home and the police recovered them both and returned them to him.

Someone had their car stolen while it had two rifles in the boot too I think? Don't know what the outcome of that one was.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Blackened » 06 Jan 2014, 1:03 pm

You could find the number of penalty units and the specifics in part 6 of the firearms act if you really wanted to.

In short though, if you failed to store your firearms correctly you would lose your license (I believe it's for 5 years?) and cop a fine - the more firearms stolen the greater the fine. If the police recovered your firearms they'd be confiscated and you'd have to sell them via a dealer or surrender them for destruction.

If everything was stored correctly and the police were able to recover the firearms they would be returned to you , perhaps after a delay if they needed them for evidence etc. but they'd just be returned the same as any other recovered stolen property.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Khan » 06 Jan 2014, 2:50 pm

The prison guard says "here, bite down on this".

:P

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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Monty » 06 Jan 2014, 3:10 pm

Khan wrote:The prison guard says "here, bite down on this".


And you got on Interpol's most wanted list as an international arms dealer before leading police on a merry chance through the city, "fast and furious" style.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Warrigul » 06 Jan 2014, 5:05 pm

RDobber wrote:There have been a few from memory.

One of the guys had a pair or rifles stolen from home and the police recovered them both and returned them to him.

Someone had their car stolen while it had two rifles in the boot too I think? Don't know what the outcome of that one was.


If it is the one I am thinking about he pleaded guilty to improper storage of firearms and was fined $800 and had a hard time getting permits for the replacements.

The story went:

The victim went to the other end of the state and parked his car with the firearms in the boot at a mates place whilst he went out to the pub, the car was stolen and rammed into a house and incinerated, the firearms were never recovered.

In TAS you are not allowed to leave firearms in an un-attended car. If he had taken the bolts or disabled the firearms by parts removal he MAY have been shown leniency apparently but not as he left complete firearms, even though they were trigger locked.

He whined about it for ages but didn't get much sympathy.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by VICHunter » 06 Jan 2014, 8:47 pm

Warrigul wrote:He whined about it for ages but didn't get much sympathy.


Fair enough IMO.

It takes all of 2 seconds to break a car window and grab something. I don't know how to steal a car but if you know what you're doing I imagine it only takes a minute.

Leaving them unattended in your car is hardly responsible...
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Yelp » 06 Jan 2014, 9:05 pm

Warrigul wrote:If it is the one I am thinking about he pleaded guilty to improper storage of firearms and was fined $800 and had a hard time getting permits for the replacements.


I'm surprised his licensed wasn't canned completely?
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Warrigul » 07 Jan 2014, 11:37 am

Yelp wrote:
Warrigul wrote:If it is the one I am thinking about he pleaded guilty to improper storage of firearms and was fined $800 and had a hard time getting permits for the replacements.


I'm surprised his licensed wasn't canned completely?


Apparently it was under serious review.

A lot of people rubbish firearm services down here but they are capable of seeing the big picture(in most cases) and in this case there was no intent to do wrong and they accepted that he thought it was legally acceptable to keep them in a locked boot when away from home.

So perhaps in this case it was a good decision, or maybe not depending on your viewpoint.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Lorgar » 07 Jan 2014, 1:30 pm

Warrigul wrote:A lot of people rubbish firearm services down here but they are capable of seeing the big picture(in most cases) and in this case there was no intent to do wrong and they accepted that he thought it was legally acceptable to keep them in a locked boot when away from home.


I think there is some ambiguity on that in the firearms act as well.

There was a thing in one of the SSAA mag 2 months ago or something on "guns in the car", don't know if you caught it?

The gist of it anyway... It was a lawyers arguments for someone who had firearms stolen from their car and was being charged with improper storage, but according to the lawyers arguments they were stolen while being "used and transported" not "stored" which is what's covered in the firearms act.

I have the article cut out at home. I'll find it and post it here.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Warrigul » 07 Jan 2014, 1:40 pm

Lorgar wrote:
Warrigul wrote:A lot of people rubbish firearm services down here but they are capable of seeing the big picture(in most cases) and in this case there was no intent to do wrong and they accepted that he thought it was legally acceptable to keep them in a locked boot when away from home.


I think there is some ambiguity on that in the firearms act as well.

There was a thing in one of the SSAA mag 2 months ago or something on "guns in the car", don't know if you caught it?

The gist of it anyway... It was a lawyers arguments for someone who had firearms stolen from their car and was being charged with improper storage, but according to the lawyers arguments they were stolen while being "used and transported" not "stored" which is what's covered in the firearms act.

I have the article cut out at home. I'll find it and post it here.


Thanks, I haven't seen it (I am a member and get the magazine but seldom read it much).
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Lorgar » 07 Jan 2014, 7:43 pm

I posted it as a new topic Warrigul to make it easier to find for future queries, here:

Guns in the car.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by gherx » 06 Feb 2014, 12:40 pm

Thanks for typing out that article Lorgar, appreciate it.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by loaded » 23 Feb 2014, 6:07 pm

A little known fact is that there is a gun theft in Victoria every week. Thus the taskforces checking gun owners that started 2 week ago in parts of Vic. They (police) are showing no-tolerance on the inspections, storage not right you will lose your guns. I know of a few that have lost their guns and licences suspended, so get your storage right.

The law in Vic is;
Apart from the storage requirements
You must take reasonable precautions that the firearms are not lost or stolen.
You must notify police of a lost or stolen firearm within 24 hours of becoming aware of it.
The police are good, however, it they felt you breached the law with your storage you will be charged.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by SendIt » 23 Feb 2014, 6:34 pm

loaded wrote:Thus the taskforces checking gun owners that started 2 week ago in parts of Vic. They (police) are showing no-tolerance on the inspections, storage not right you will lose your guns. I know of a few that have lost their guns and licences suspended, so get your storage right.


How's this any difference to regular safe inspections?

You know a few guys who've all lost their licenses in the last 2 weeks? :?
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Pom » 23 Feb 2014, 6:49 pm

loaded wrote:They (police) are showing no-tolerance on the inspections, storage not right you will lose your guns.


I'm pretty sure that's not necessarily the case.

I could swear I've read more than a few reports from people where something wasn't up to scratch and they had 7 days or whatever to fix it up.

If not fixed by then, then you had a problem.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by loaded » 23 Feb 2014, 11:20 pm

It is 100% correct the NEW Area DFO has instructed that no tolerance policy be enforced.
And that is what they are doing, 20 police inexperience’s in longarms have been allocated to the task. The inspections are occurring around Geelong to Warrnambool. The inspections are occurring where there are more than 10 firearms on the property. If you know anyone anywhere near there best you warn them.

And yes they are taking guns and licences.
Some may say well too bad they broke the law.
I bet not everyone here knows the law and cannot garrentee they are 100% legal.
These clowns should be out their helping people understand the law not what they are doing.

I have heard that this DFO has lost his longarm instructors respect that run the safety course, not sure if they are still running it. He is a new rooster in the house trying to show his authority, he’s not making any friends that’s for sure. Yes a reasonable DFO would give you time to fix it up not this sack of…..
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Vati » 24 Feb 2014, 7:54 am

loaded wrote:Some may say well too bad they broke the law.


A little bit, yeah...

Takes 5 seconds to Google for the requirements in your state.

If you're not sure that you're up to code, that probably a good sign that you're not.

Not that hard really...
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Grrzrr » 24 Feb 2014, 8:47 am

I'm with Vati.

150kg + leave it standing. Less than 150kg bolt it down. Not rocket science...

The requirements are readily available on every state Police website. And any gun store could just as easily give you the info.

No point painting your district firearms officer as the bad guy if you didn't do your part. If you've failed to secure your stuff properly that's completely on you.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by loaded » 24 Feb 2014, 10:32 am

Not everyone has the internet.
Not everyone is aware of the security changes that occurred in 2005
Not all know the “police” meaning of “sturdy construction”, “effective alarm system”, “not easily removable”, “not easily penetrable”, “made of steel or any other robust material”……………
Not everyone reads the firearms regulations or Act, why would they 600 pages of very boring read. Give me songs of fire and ice any day.
The people that have lost guns were not aware they were in breach of the law.

Some were in breach of the security change for alarm systems that in 2005 went from 15 pistols to 15 firearms.
Im talking about people that have had guns for 20 or more years and like me don’t read all just browse the application forms or licence renewals information.

I put this to all, how many of you
Have loaded round on your loading benches – illegal
Have mags or you rifle bolts in the ammo cupboard– illegal
Have loose ammo in your shooting jacket, car, gun room benches– illegal
Has a partner that has access to your firearms but no licence – illegal
Takes a non-licenced shooter hunting allowing to carry or use (Vic) – illegal

Yes you may be right the law is easy to find its far from crystal clear
I know of one person that had many inspections over 10 years then was told the doors are not of solid construction, was ok every other time, this officer believed solid meant not hollow, others felt that solid meant firm which they were. The fact that the walls were plaster didn’t matter, he was give 2 weeks to replace the doors. The way the inspections are being done at the moment this person would have lost his guns.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Grrzrr » 24 Feb 2014, 11:53 am

I'm not sure what you're aiming for here. Sympathy for them?

"The people that have lost guns were not aware they were in breach of the law."

Since when was "I didn't know" an excuse for breaking the law?

Like the laws or not, it's each owners responsibility to stay up to date and make sure they comply.

Not everyone has the internet? So call a police station, visit a station, call your local gun shop, call a safe manufacturer, borrow someone's computer for 5 minutes. There are no shortage of ways they could have checked and it would have taken 2 minutes. This all just sounds like making excuses for them and saying it was someone elses fault they lost their stuff.

If I did any of the things you mentioned above - left ammo in the car, gave my partner access, took a non-licensed shooter hunting etc. - it would be my fault. No one elses.

Anyway, not going to argue any further about this. That's it from me.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Westy » 25 Feb 2014, 6:39 am

Quick Question why are you guys pointing the finger at firearm owners and not at the theiving Bastards causing all the problems??????
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by Grrzrr » 25 Feb 2014, 2:09 pm

We got off topic here but I/loaded were talking about people getting there licenses suspended for improper storage, not thieves.

Anyway, as above, excuses like "I don't have the internet" are rubbish. It's peoples own responsibility to keep their affairs in order and if they don't store their stuff properly that's on them, not the big bad firearms officer who takes away their toys.
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Re: What happens if your firearm is stolen

Post by loaded » 06 Mar 2014, 7:06 am

One of the latest causalities of these inspections is an 85 year old man.

Police turned up at his door. He had removed his hearing aid for the day and could not tell what they wanted. The police being righteous, fair and honourable, took his guns and cancelled his licences on the grounds that because they (police) could not communicate with him he’s not "a fit and proper person" to have a licence.

The age of this person should not come into it there are a lot of hearing impaired shooters out there.

Now please feel free on comment on this gentleman breaking the law. Because Im sure the police being the administrators of justice believe being hearing impaired makes you “not a fit and proper person”. I believe this case is discrimination, however under the act the police may win in court, the may be one interpretation of the law.

I believe this gentleman because of his age and the hassles of attending court is not going to appeal.

I have to say it but others are going to follow. This is downright wrong, unfair, unjust, and excessive.
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