Tougher Storage Requirements on the agenda for Tassie

[MeccaOz]

http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?%2Fpr-article%2Frene-hidding9%2F

If your not into it , ya better let her know

[Fozzy]

Sounds like they are pretty lax at the moment to be honest.. Better Storage = Less Theft = Better for us all..

[1290]

Same BS.... the crackdown on theft is tougher stance on those doing the right thing- penalise the shooters for the crimes of others, GO AFTER THOSE DOING THE ROBBERIES!

Have any Tasmanian firearm owners on here (or the other place, I know you're here) expressed the desire for tougher requirements? Maybe a #secure# database or failing that NO database....

damn right we're concerned, concerned that our details are available on lists distributed wide and far, but you Minister are 'convinced' that the registry is secure and there, what WE are telling the crims about out storage??

THIS will have implications for all states as tassy has the standard A/B hardwood-minimum, not easily penetrated, bolted if under 150kg, C cat steel....
If Tassy changes ALL states will follow......

CHASE THE CRIMS!
DISBAND THE REGISTRY!
LEAVE THE LAWFUL BE!


Rene Hidding: Government working on response to firearm thefts
Rene Hidding, Minister for Police and Emergency Management
06.06.14 3:48 pm

Any theft of firearms is a very serious matter and I share the concerns of the community and Tasmania Police.

As Police Minister I started work on this very issue from Day 1.

My office has been working on an almost daily basis with Tasmania Police and stakeholders to pursue amendments to the Firearms Act.

These matters and all related issues are being expedited after four years of Labor-Green inaction and I intend to deliver a strong package of measures to address these concerns as soon as possible.

I share the concerns of firearms owners in Tasmania who are becoming increasingly worried that their homes may be targeted for the specific purpose of firearm theft.

While I’m convinced that Government databases are secure and unauthorised access can be ruled out, I have a growing concern that knowledge of private firearms storage is being discussed elsewhere.

Firearm owners tell me that they are quite prepared to have tougher storage requirements but they also expect the Government to respond with stronger deterrent measures.

I intend to present legislation, after four years of Labor-Green dithering, which will implement a new regime of storage requirements and harsh penalties for burglaries involving firearms

[bigfellascott]

No doubt whatever they do there will be coming to a state near you!

[Warrigul]

Sounds like they are pretty lax at the moment to be honest.. Better Storage = Less Theft = Better for us all..

The original purpose to a gun safe was to keep firearms out of the hands of kids- yes it will slow down a criminal but will never stop them.

The criminals break the law when they enter a house, break it again when they force the gunsafe door and a third time when they remove the firearms. Better storage requirements are only a cover up for ineffective policing.

To be honest comments like yours never make it any better for the rest of us in any way at all.

[MeccaOz]

Sounds like they are pretty lax at the moment to be honest.. Better Storage = Less Theft = Better for us all..

I have been kinda waiting for this generation of shooters to come through. It seems long gone are the days the old mans pump actions shotgun LIVED behind the seat in the ute "Where it was needed" on the farm, or for whatever reason. To be honest the only people im worried about stealing my guns, are the cops firstly, and secondly we all know how $$ will open any database as long as you find the right person.

EDIT : I should qualify that, EG: another buyback or an outright cancellation of licenses.

[Fozzy]

I dont think a school locker is suitable storage for a firearm Personally. Sorry for having a differing opinion.

Ive spent plenty of times on farms where a rifle is needed on the gun rack etc.. However thats not in a residential street where someone might happen upon it and steal it. Its not a generation thing or anything like that. In my opinion is its common sense if you keep them very secure they wont get stolen as easily.

Yes its illegal to break into someones house and what not we all know that. But it happens and will continue to happen. The governement continues to cut the budget to policing and they will just get further and further stretched and response times will become longer. Its in our best interest to make our guns as secure as possible because otherwise they are more likely to be taken off us... Should we have to.. No but I still think we need to.

End of the day we are all entitled to our opinion.

[Warrigul]

I dont think a school locker is suitable storage for a firearm Personally. Sorry for having a differing opinion.

Ive spent plenty of times on farms where a rifle is needed on the gun rack etc.. However thats not in a residential street where someone might happen upon it and steal it. Its not a generation thing or anything like that. In my opinion is its common sense if you keep them very secure they wont get stolen as easily.

Yes its illegal to break into someones house and what not we all know that. But it happens and will continue to happen. The governement continues to cut the budget to policing and they will just get further and further stretched and response times will become longer. Its in our best interest to make our guns as secure as possible because otherwise they are more likely to be taken off us... Should we have to.. No but I still think we need to.

End of the day we are all entitled to our opinion.

You are bending over and taking it in the arse whilst smiling and the sad thing is you can't see anything wrong with it because you know no better.

[MeccaOz]

I follow what your saying Fozzy. Your right about police response times, I have even spoken to an ex copper I worked with and sometimes those times are stretched so there is no hassle when they get there. Also Ive had very good friends who have been on the wrong end of a home invasion. So my thoughts are that having a gun by your side might not be the worst thing in the world, especially in your own home, which can and should be done with a high level of safety.

[Fozzy]

Im not disagreeing with that.. I would even go as far as saying I support open carry. But when they are unattended in a residence for any period of time they need to be secure.

[MeccaOz]

Im not disagreeing with that.. I would even go as far as saying I support open carry. But when they are unattended in a residence for any period of time they need to be secure.

Well If I'm not using a gun it will be locked up, whether the laws says so or not.

[bigfellascott]

I don't mind the rifles being locked away in my safe, I don't have a prob with that at all, what I have a prob with is the pollies making life harder for us because they know as well as we do you can't stop someone from committing an offense, no law in the world does that, all laws do is give the authorities a measure which to penalise you with, that's it, so in their vain attempt to look like they are in control and can actually stop people from being crims they just screw over those who have no intention of committing offenses - pathetic when you think about it really.

It won't ever change - that's the reality, they will screw us at every turn as it makes them look good despite the fact it has zero affect on the real problem and that is why crims are crims and the majority of these B and E's is drug related, sort the drug problem and this problem would all but disappear along with a heap of other issues as a direct result of peoples drug issues.

Sad fact is they can't fix the drug issue either, so expect to see harsher and harsher laws regarding firearms ownership, on top of that the UN want us disarmed so we are well up against it.

[RoginaJack]

"BUM CRACK BANDIT" JAILED FOR ROBBERY.

So screamed the headlines of the Gold Coast Bulletin on Tuesday, 27th May, 2014.

The article goes on to report that a young Queensland woman has been jailed over a robbery and shooting after she was identified by a distinctive tattoo above her derriere and armed with a handgun she and an associate broke into the Coomera Lodge Hotel in December, 2011, stealing cash and money.

After the robbery the pair and others met a drug dealer to buy amphetamines. After the transaction and high on drugs and alcohol she leaned from the back of the car and fired at the dealer as he was leaving on his motor bike, hitting him in the arm and hand.

She was arrested and eventually pleaded guilty to break and enter and acts intended to cause grievous bodily harm after an attempted murder charge was downgraded.

The Justice pointed out that " to fire a loaded weapon at someone on a motorbike was highly dangerous" and went on to sentence her to 6 years' imprisonment BUT took into account her youth (age 21) and limited history and set parole eligibility earlier than usual, after she has served 20 months. As she has already spent 14 months behind bars she can apply for parole from December this year.

Words fail me and the Tassie Government are looking at tougher storage requirements...

[MeccaOz]

LOL RoginaJack, sounds pretty typical though. But what has got me stuffed if they are positive that no outsider has infiltrated this database, and all the robberies were licensed firearms owners, scattered throughout Tassie. Given that everyday last week a different cop has been charged from everything from importing illegal products, to paedophile offences, wouldnt it stand to reason they should be looking inwards ??

[on_one_wheel]

All secure gun storage aside, the government is missing the real point.

Criminals are not scared of your laws or your punishment !

Take a look at a Russian prison, I bet we would cut crime in half if we ran a prison like that. But no, we will give then a cell mate, TV, PlayStation, good food, and the list goes on. Its literally a 4 star resort where you can mix with like minded people, make new friends, learn about crime, network with gangs..... what a joke, its a better alternative than the dole for some people.

Inside Russia's toughest prison http://natgeotv.com/asia/inside-russias ... st-prisons That's what we need, some real consequence.

Don't make it tougher for us, make it tougher for the crims.

[RoginaJack]

The Minister for Police and Emergency Management Rene Hidding means well but we've heard all this beating of chest and general huffing and puffing all before and what comes of it, NOTHING other than another impost on law abiding citizens.

When the gun amnesty and new firearms ownership laws were first proposed, we had every state premier and Federal member running around sprouting tougher penalties, heavy fines and minimum jail time for crimes involving firearms and what happened, NOTHING, just another load of hot air and more posturing.

I'd like to know what the Ministers' stats are re B & E to premises with and without firearms being stolen. I also suspect that there is a connection with leaked database information and the B & E as this happens with large screen T.Vs, Lap top Computers and other expensive goods, so why should firearms be an exception.

This might be a good place for the Minister to start the investigation.

[MeccaOz]

The Minister for Police and Emergency Management Rene Hidding means well but we've heard all this beating of chest and general huffing and puffing all before and what comes of it, NOTHING other than another impost on law abiding citizens.

When the gun amnesty and new firearms ownership laws were first proposed, we had every state premier and Federal member running around sprouting tougher penalties, heavy fines and minimum jail time for crimes involving firearms and what happened, NOTHING, just another load of hot air and more posturing.

I'd like to know what the Ministers' stats are re B & E to premises with and without firearms being stolen. I also suspect that there is a connection with leaked database information and the B & E as this happens with large screen T.Vs, Lap top Computers and other expensive goods, so why should firearms be an exception.

This might be a good place for the Minister to start the investigation.

I'd be very keen to know myself. I'd also like to know how much home invasions have risen over the last 20 years too.

[model41]

I think that they are on the right track. Less stolen guns is good for all of us.
Watch this space as Victoria will follow and so it should.

Currently legal in Vic are;
school lockers, that can be opened with a screw driver in 5 seconds,
cheap ebay Chinese padlock that will open with a small wack with a hammer,
for pistols digital safes from bunnings that can be opened in 5 seconds with a hammer & battery,
And the list goes on….

These are the bulk of storage facilities guns are being stolen from.
Serious shooters have great storage facilities; hacks have legal but substandard storage.
You guys out there with descent storage will not need to upgrade.

I love my shooting and believe that anyone that cannot spend 500 bucks on a decent gun locker to secure our sport should leave and take up bowls.

[Warrigul]

I think that they are on the right track. Less stolen guns is good for all of us.
Watch this space as Victoria will follow and so it should.

Currently legal in Vic are;
school lockers, that can be opened with a screw driver in 5 seconds,
cheap ebay Chinese padlock that will open with a small wack with a hammer,
for pistols digital safes from bunnings that can be opened in 5 seconds with a hammer & battery,
And the list goes on….

These are the bulk of storage facilities guns are being stolen from.
Serious shooters have great storage facilities; hacks have legal but substandard storage.
You guys out there with descent storage will not need to upgrade.

I love my shooting and believe that anyone that cannot spend 500 bucks on a decent gun locker to secure our sport should leave and take up bowls.

No they are not, of the nine instances I know the circumstances of ALL were proprietary gun safes, in one case it was far in excess of requirements(A chubb safe). In TAS you are not allowed lockers or cheap pistol safes.

Many of the existing gun safes sold do not meet the proposed new requirements for storage- how many of you out there have safes with 5mm doors and 3.2mm walls?

Then there is the numbers game, if you have more than 14 firearms you will need a minimum of an $860 back to base monitored (minimum of $105 a month for service) alarm.

So next time have a think and look up some hard facts before you spout some crap that you have randomly thought up in support of another inpost on law abiding people instead of hitting out at those that actually break the existing laws.

When you lay the blame on the owner of the firearms it is a slippery slope to being required to keep firearms at an approved storage facility.

[WesleySnipes]

No they are not, of the nine instances I know the circumstances of ALL were proprietary gun safes, in one case it was far in excess of requirements(A chubb safe). In TAS you are not allowed lockers or cheap pistol safes.

Many of the existing gun safes sold do not meet the proposed new requirements for storage- how many of you out there have safes with 5mm doors and 3.2mm walls?

Then there is the numbers game, if you have more than 14 firearms you will need a minimum of an $860 back to base monitored (minimum of $105 a month for service) alarm.

So next time have a think and look up some hard facts before you spout some crap that you have randomly thought up in support of another inpost on law abiding people instead of hitting out at those that actually break the existing laws.

When you lay the blame on the owner of the firearms it is a slippery slope to being required to keep firearms at an approved storage facility.

With Warrigul here, spending time and money making extreme storage laws for the law abiding citizens will achieve nothing. It will not deter the criminal element nor will it stop any burglaries. As above all of the robberies during a certain period were not cheap school lockers, but proper safes that met or exceeded proper storage requirements. Making new laws whilst not policing the old ones is counter productive at best.

[MeccaOz]

With Warrigul here, spending time and money making extreme storage laws for the law abiding citizens will achieve nothing. It will not deter the criminal element nor will it stop any burglaries. As above all of the robberies during a certain period were not cheap school lockers, but proper safes that met or exceeded proper storage requirements. Making new laws whilst not policing the old ones is counter productive at best.

+ 1

[model41]

Hey Guys my comments were for VICTORIA.

I’m talking about Victorian stolen guns where they are being stolen from storage facilities some that don’t even comply to current legislation (again Victoria). It’s these hacks in Victoria that will cause Victorian laws to change.
You are allowed these cheap and nasty storage requirements (in Victoria).

Sorry to hear that Tassie law makers are going down the track of monitored back to base for over 14. That was dropped in Victoria, it’s now an effective alarm system that complies to the AS.
Again sorry to hear that the alarm companies it Tassie are ripping you off, my monitored alarm costs $30 per month.

You are never going to stop someone breaking in and trying to steel you guns, only make it harder for them.
I sprouted facts for the Victorian situation, for which I do know about, and not from the media I must add.
Cheers.

[Lorgar]

Many of the existing gun safes sold do not meet the proposed new requirements for storage- how many of you out there have safes with 5mm doors and 3.2mm walls?

Part of the reason I went with the safe I did was 'future proofing' on this kinds of things.

VIC here, but the basics are a 'locker' type safe is enough as said above, and must be bolted if less than 150kg.

I went with a 150kg+ option, it's bolted down as well and has a 6mm door. I'll never have 14+ rifles but the house is alarmed anyway so that's a plus.

Got told by a few mates who were into shooting before me it was 'over the top' but if things change down the road I'll still be covered. The extra security is good piece of mind anyway.

But yeah, It meets all the possible requirements, not just enough of them for the moment. Should things tighten up here in the future I should still be covered so it will be a time/money saver then.

[Warrigul]

Hey Guys my comments were for VICTORIA.

I’m talking about Victorian stolen guns where they are being stolen from storage facilities some that don’t even comply to current legislation (again Victoria). It’s these hacks in Victoria that will cause Victorian laws to change.
You are allowed these cheap and nasty storage requirements (in Victoria).

Sorry to hear that Tassie law makers are going down the track of monitored back to base for over 14. That was dropped in Victoria, it’s now an effective alarm system that complies to the AS.
Again sorry to hear that the alarm companies it Tassie are ripping you off, my monitored alarm costs $30 per month.

You are never going to stop someone breaking in and trying to steel you guns, only make it harder for them.
I sprouted facts for the Victorian situation, for which I do know about, and not from the media I must add.
Cheers.

You spouted them in support of changes to the Tasmanian laws. What really was the point?

What also is the point in making it tougher for everyone in Victoria when a minority don't comply with existing storage legislation? The only ones that will comply already do, you are only penalising the law abiding.

Even if we were to find monitorinbg for $30 a month that is an extra $360 each year we are penalised simply for being gun owners and having an ineffective Police force.

I really can't make out how some people think, once again some people bend over in encouragement and don't even realise they are doing it.

[Lyam]

Sounds like they are pretty lax at the moment to be honest.. Better Storage = Less Theft = Better for us all..

I agree with that in principle, but there is always an element of what 1290 said too. As I've seen these things come and go anyway.

It's hard to stop the criminals, so they clamp down on LAFO instead so it looks like they're doing something.

I'm totally for reasonable security requirements. It's only common sense. Just too much focus on us LAFO for my liking though, and not enough where it matters.

How often do you see any announcements on new plans or actions being taken to actively find and take firearms directly out of the hands of criminals compared to just more and more pressure on LAFOs?

The article says this is a "response to firearms thefts". I'd like to know what's being done to recover ones that have been taken? Increasing the requirements for LAFO won't get them back after all...

[RoginaJack]

No one is going to argue against better storage or reasonable security but where do we draw the line? Am I expected to turn my home into a fortress to the extent that where my family need to evacuate; it puts them in danger of being trapped inside.

The Minister for Police and Emergency Management goes on to say that "Any theft of firearms is a very serious matter and I share the concerns of the community and Tasmania Police." No one would argue against that BUT when the cases reach the courts they are not treated as such - refer to my previous post and this is not just a Qld. thing, all other states have similar cases. I haven't heard the Police Minister or Attorney General jumping up to appeal against the in-antiquate sentencing.

As Lyam pointed out the article was a response to firearm thefts, well what about a response to B & Es in general and the outlets where the goods are being fenced. That would be good for everyone too!

Of all the B & Es', how many involved firearms, like percentage wise?

It would appear that the Tassie Government is using the sledge hammer to crack a walnut approach.

[agentzero]

No one is going to argue against better storage or reasonable security but where do we draw the line? Am I expected to turn my home into a fortress to the extent that where my family need to evacuate; it puts them in danger of being trapped inside.

Concrete walls and iron bars soon.

No wait, that's prison... Where criminals are supposed to be... Not us...