Gun safe inspection and "entrapment"

[brett1868]

This is only for the NSW guys but may be relevant to other states....

Declaration.JPG (54.1 KiB) Viewed 5598 times

Taken from the "Application for a Firearms License" P561 form....

We all signed it to get our licenses, its a legal document and to moan and complain about the various laws contained within the Act after signing is a bit childish. Admittedly the enforcement of some of the regulations leaves a lot to be desired but it is what it is so suck it up and get over it.

I know this post my upset a few but I value integrity, I signed the form so I'll follow their rules wether I like them or not.

[happyhunter]

Remember, some of us have been shooters most our lives through family introduction and have had to unwillingly give up inherited firearms and comply with a growing number of restrictions that purposely make participation in shooting progressively more difficult.

When I got my licenses I was 12 years old and I just walked into the local cop shop and payed the 9 bucks or whatever it was. Since then we have had no choice other than agree to the new regime of surveillance or give up shooting and don't give me this s**t about signing up knowingly when non-compliance means having your door kicked in by the ninja turtles.

[Gwion]

100% bullshit. Including seatbelt laws. Complete nonsense and nanny state BS.

Strongly agree with that last point.

So, any law enacted to encourage responsible action is bulls**t?

Because obviously, every individual is responsible without question. So, you're also ok when someone who drank a bottle and a half of whiskey jumped in their car and was on the wrong side of the road when your responsible 19 y/o child was driving their friend home?

Maybe they were from the States and forgot what side of the road they were driving on. Still, if they left out the whisky, they may have remembered.


It's all still ok, right?

[brett1868]

I've been a licensed shooter since 1986, I rocked up to the local cop shop in my shorts, singlet and dress thongs on my 18th birthday and 30 mins later walked out fully licensed. I caught a train into the city to a little gunshop on Liverpool St next to where Hungry Jacks is and picked up a Stirling 22LR semi-auto topped with a Nikko Stirling 4x32. Put it in a bag and caught the bus home stopping by KMart to buy a box of ammo.
I remember the old days very well, many of my favourite firearms were "stolen" by little Johnny in the great crime of 96'. Like all things, laws and society change with time and we either learn to adapt and get on with it or we jump on a forum and whinge like old men. Yes, some of our laws suck ass bigtime, they are unfair and poorly enforced but I love the sport and will adapt. Admittedly NSW is one of the more liberal states in regards to firearms laws so I can only emphasize with those of our community in the less enlightened states.

[Baronvonrort]

I've been a licensed shooter since 1986, I rocked up to the local cop shop in my shorts, singlet and dress thongs on my 18th birthday and 30 mins later walked out fully licensed.

Mine took around 10 minutes in 1984 , the police came and visited me around 1986 when I moved because I didn't change the address on my shooters license and they wanted to know why, I told them I forgot and said they knew where I was because I changed my drivers license,that was a 2 minute visit it was all cool they never asked to see any guns or anything they just gave me a nice reminder to not forget next time I moved.

[Title_II]

100% bullshit. Including seatbelt laws. Complete nonsense and nanny state BS.

Strongly agree with that last point.

So, any law enacted to encourage responsible action is bulls**t?

Because obviously, every individual is responsible without question. So, you're also ok when someone who drank a bottle and a half of whiskey jumped in their car and was on the wrong side of the road when your responsible 19 y/o child was driving their friend home?

Maybe they were from the States and forgot what side of the road they were driving on. Still, if they left out the whisky, they may have remembered.


It's all still ok, right?

"encourage" responsible action? That's not what laws do. That's what families do. Laws criminalize.

Perhaps you've let you government take over the role of your mother, father, sister, and brother. Having lived a few decades in the 20th Century, we do know what the point of that is and where it leads. I think I saw it in a couple technical manuals by Marx and Alinsky.

Let me ask you a question. If you ended up having to move to another country, would you be pushing to have laws passed in that country requiring gun storage requirements and inspections?

[Gwion]

"encourage" responsible action? That's not what laws do. That's what families do.

You had better remind the Williams, Moran and Pettingill families from Melbourne of this then. Lovely responsible types. That statement was so naive and simplest as to be laughable.

Edited for the sake of civility.
For what it is worth, I was 25 in 96 & having a few police acquaintances, I argued heavily against some of the new laws while agreeing that some weren't a bad thing. Funnily, 3/4 of these police friends agreed that the new laws would largely do nothing.

By the way, I'm not going to move to any new country, so your question is pointless.

[lole]

Getting a bit heated in here.

Relax friends

[headspace]

I'm with Brett on this, we had laws pushed through that we didn't agree with, but the politicians used an unfortunate tragedy to get what they wanted. What I would suggest is this; lobby your local member, be a member of a the SSAA, act responsibly and we just may get a few entitlements back. the bleat and whine about all this on a forum is like preaching to the choir. It achieves nothing, but should some of the anti gun mob look n here and see some of the nonsense they can and will use it against us. This is still a democracy of sorts and you may still email your local member or the Prime Minister if you wish, but for Christ's sake keep it civil or you'll just fall into the mould they already have made for us. By the way, I go back to the early 1960's, I was working in the gun shops in George street before I went into the Army. I know what it was like back then, but it's gone and won't be coming back.

[Title_II]

Getting a bit heated in here.

Relax friends

3

Agreed. I've stated my mind as I always will. But I am a guest in your Nation and will not engage in arguments or causing trouble. And there is nobody here I have personal issues with that posts regularly, including the above, which is great and one of the aspects that distinguishes this place. I like everybody here that posts regularly. Maybe I saw an annoying person here or there but they were not regulars and seem to go away. And few at that.

[happyhunter]

This thread still going? hahaha.nothing llike a good debate

[Title_II]

This thread still going? hahaha.nothing llike a good debate

Troublemaker

[headspace]

Thanks for the comments Title11, at least here there is still a democracy in operation. I was a bit surprised to see this thread still going because most of it is pretty repetitious. You blokes at least have your 2dn Amendment, which is great, but you still have to be on your guard. It's got to the point where we as licensed, law abiding firearms owners must constantly be on our guard to protect our image and therefore our sport. It's for this reason I try to encourage the members here to post in a responsible manner. Just about anyone who can turn a computer on can come on here and see what we say. It's not like we are having a private chat around a campfire. With this in mind all our comments should be kept respectful to the police especially. I believe that most of the cops are good people doing a tough job. They get abused by the bottom feeders of the world on a daily basis. We don't need to included in that company.

[Title_II]

Thanks for the comments Title11, at least here there is still a democracy in operation. I was a bit surprised to see this thread still going because most of it is pretty repetitious. You blokes at least have your 2dn Amendment, which is great, but you still have to be on your guard. It's got to the point where we as licensed, law abiding firearms owners must constantly be on our guard to protect our image and therefore our sport. It's for this reason I try to encourage the members here to post in a responsible manner. Just about anyone who can turn a computer on can come on here and see what we say. It's not like we are having a private chat around a campfire. With this in mind all our comments should be kept respectful to the police especially. I believe that most of the cops are good people doing a tough job. They get abused by the bottom feeders of the world on a daily basis. We don't need to included in that company.

Just because I choose not to argue does not mean I showed my belly. I will not be lectured and I am not the slightest bit concerned about my conduct or posts. And you are still my mate

[headspace]

Well I'm glad we got that sorted out.

[Hercl]

With this in mind all our comments should be kept respectful to the police especially. I believe that most of the cops are good people doing a tough job. They get abused by the bottom feeders of the world on a daily basis. We don't need to included in that company.

Most comments on this kind of stuff are a bit misdirected or more often just poorly addressed.

I think it's right to say the majority of people have issue with our legislators and laws, not the individuals that make up our police forces, but in casual conversation everything gets bundled under the same label of "cops" being the issue.

[chewtah]

I spent a long time in the NSW Police and this would be something some of them would do, Id be boning up on all the laws of safe keeping, storage and NOT have impromptu visits, unless it suits you, x10. and then clean the safe out and make dead sure no ammo has fallen into the gun cabinet, no mag in the gun cabinet, in case it has a round in it, and maybe bolt out so it cant be still loaded. No need to open the ammo cabinet IMO.

I have a mini camera stuck to the top of my gun cabinet and make sure its running if I get a visit.

[chewtah]

I meant to add, airgun pellets can fall through gaps in my safe, from the ammo cabinet to the gun safe, needs some silastic around the gaps, something to watch for with 'ammo stored with firearm'

[GLS_1956]

The enemies of liberty love paranoia. It is their main weapon when it comes to deleting freedom from society. You in Australia have a foe that has released the imagined demon of someone running into a house grabbing the gun owner's firearms and ammunition and wrecking mayhem on an innocent public. Hence all these overboard gun and ammo storage regulations. We have these proponents here in the USA as well.

[<<Genesis93>>]

No. The one running into the house is the police ....

[AusTac]

The inspection i had last year, the two nice police members hardly knew which end was dangerous... lol but they were friendly enough and quick, so i got the big tick and that should be it forever ( wishfull thinking )

[BBJ]

I meant to add, airgun pellets can fall through gaps in my safe, from the ammo cabinet to the gun safe, needs some silastic around the gaps, something to watch for with 'ammo stored with firearm'

gaps = gas vents?

[superkel66]

Quick question, having recently got my firearms license and only just submitted my PTA, when would the police come and inspect my safe? Would I be given prior notice? What would happen if they came by and I'm at work / away etc?

There is no standard inspection time in relation to your license/pta being issued. e.g. they don't come and visit you 1 month later on the day. It just happens when your name comes up.

You'll read in difference places it was 2 months for someone and 20 years for someone else.

You should be given prior notice, typically someone would call and arrange a time that's mutually agreeable. It's possible though that someone could turn up at the door unannounced if they couldn't reach you on the phone or for some other reason. Not typical, but possible.

As for being away or at work, if you're not home you obviously can't help them can you

Just remember only appropriately licensed residents can have access to the firearms, if the inspection date is booked don't leave the key with the wife 'just for the day'.

The inspection time has to be mutually agreeable, if you're at work and get the call you're not required to drop everything you're doing and race home at the drop of a hat.

They're not a big deal mate, usually done and dusted in 5 minutes for most people. Just get everything in order and if/when the call come you'll be right.

at the end of the day there are too many variables to be able to say when and how will be checked for compliance........i have never been checked but i am 50 and rually based........but i know of younger folk and those that a "mild history" that seem to attract attention. state to state person to person it will vary..........just make sure your compliant and there is nothing to worry about..........the set of keys in my sock draw my wife knew about! didn't open my locker........i knew she would cave to police pressure so i removed temptation. at the end of the day it states you and only you are responsible!

[Oldbloke]

My Mrs wouldnt know where my keys are. I hide them. If I fall off my perch I figure they will turn up in tbe clean up. Lol.
My Mrs would cave too.

[Wylie27]

My wife and I share a Cat A/B safe but I am the only one with a Cat H.

the Cat H is pin coded, she doesn't know it...

[dpskipper]

Hi All,
Quick question, having recently got my firearms license and only just submitted my PTA, when would the police come and inspect my safe? Would I be given prior notice? What would happen if they came by and I'm at work / away etc?

It really depends, apparently its random and they are supposed to mail/ring ahead and arrange a time that suits. In terms if you will get inspected, again I don't know. I have 3 guns on my licence and have had them for several years with no inspection. That being said my guns are only cat A/B
I have heard that people with cat D/H get inspected more however that is only anecdotal.
If the police ring and don't get an answer your supposed to ring them back and arrange a time.

[tallboy]

The police have to give 72 hours notice of an inspection. They cant just turn up out of the blue however if you have nothing to hide and it is convenient then why not let them inspect straight away rather than say you know your rights and make them come back at a convenient time , that is only making for a bad relationship with the police.

[BBJ]

You answered it yourself, Tallboy.

"The police have to give 72 hours notice of an inspection. They cant just turn up out of the blue"

You say if you have nothing to hide and it's convenient why not them in. If they have to give notice why didn't they?

Why is it always on us to make the exception.

I they're in the neighbourhood for other reasons and see you're there and it's an opportunity to do an inspection, just call and say "sorry for the short notice, we're in the area, would it be convenient to drop by for a gun safe inspection". You tell them it is or it isn't, they can come and do it if the time is right and if not no time lost.

They have no reason/excuse to turn up unannounced; that's fostering poor relations with the LAFO community.

No one is knocking them back to just be an asshole or cause the powers that be grief. It's asking to be communicated with and a little common courtesy.

[happyhunter]

It really depends, apparently its random and they are supposed to mail/ring ahead and arrange a time that suits.

Maybe it's random in some states but not here. A ny change of address will flag you and the last two I have been given no notice. The first I knew was cops banging at the front door, both times it was after 8pm.

Try having a conversation with them about required notice and they hit you with veiled threats. Also, if you decide not to answer the door expect your mobile to start ring. I have it on good authority that if you pretend nobody is home and they can prove otherwise you will get done for perjury.

[Mitch]

It really depends, apparently its random and they are supposed to mail/ring ahead and arrange a time that suits.

Maybe it's random in some states but not here. A ny change of address will flag you and the last two I have been given no notice. The first I knew was cops banging at the front door, both times it was after 8pm.

Try having a conversation with them about required notice and they hit you with veiled threats. Also, if you decide not to answer the door expect your mobile to start ring. I have it on good authority that if you pretend nobody is home and they can prove otherwise you will get done for perjury.

What state are you talking about?

In QLD I've changed address twice, and not yet had an inspection.

Try as they might my partner won't open it either, as its coded and she has no clue what the code is.

I can tell you right now that I will be making sure the time suits ME, not them