Curious about Austalian licenses

[GLS_1956]

Hello to my fellow gun buffs:

I'd appreciate a little information on the gun laws you have in Australia, I'm sure that like in the USA they vary from state to state as well as having over riding national laws.

Here in Oklahoma we have to deal with the Instant Background Check, which is federally mandated, which generally only takes a few minutes to pass or fail. Otherwise there is no restriction, other than age, on rifle, pistol or shotguns. Nor on ammunition or magazine capacity. Indeed the longest I have had to wait was when I got my concealed, now either concealed or open, and that took about 3 months because of fingerprinting problems and a backlog at the state agency that did the background checks.

[Title_II]

Here in Oklahoma we have to deal with the Instant Background Check, which is federally mandated, which generally only takes a few minutes to pass or fail.

It's only federally mandated if you buy a gun from or through a federally licensed gun dealer.

Further, many states provide you can even buy a gun from or through a federally licensed gun dealer with NO background check if you have a carry license.

[GLS_1956]

Both statements are true, to a degree, in Oklahoma I've needed to have the background check even though I have a carry permit.

[adam]

What exactly would you like to know?

Basically from my understanding in Victoria you first require a reason for the gun license that the government will approve. Farming, Hunting or Gun Clubs are the main ones.

If farming or hunting you either need to give evidence that you own the land, or you need to have a letter from someone with land that gives you permission to hunt on it. (This can be a government department if you're going to shoot on their land I believe). This needs to be submitted each time your license is due for renewal as well as upon your first application.

If the reason is a gun club, you must provide evidence of current membership each time your license is due for renewal.

Technically you are only supposed to use your license for the reason originally given (which is imprinted on your license).

For your initial license you must also sit a test.

Most of the reasons above only allow you to have CAT A&B license. (Non semi automatic rifles and shotguns). For semi auto's you need to apply for a CAT C license. (Which is only for farmers, and requires more burden of proof to obtain).

Pistols are only permitted if you are part of a pistol club. And then, only pistols that match the competitions that you are planning on shooting. They can only be used for that event. No hunting, no protection.

Every gun we purchase must first be approved by the government to allow us to buy it. (Application to Aquire). They hold this information in a registry and know where every legal gun is kept. They do surprise inspections to ensure that those guns are there, and that the storage meets the required standards. Direct sales between owner to owner are illegal and must go through a firearms dealer with associated paperwork so the government knows what's going on.

A few decades ago there was no gun registry, only licenses. They then brought one in, and mandated all firearm owners to have their guns registered to the database (with the promise that they were only doing this to know what was out there - not to take our guns away from us). Some years later, they brought in restrictions on guns and took a number of guns away from us. (ie, automatics, semi auto's, etc).

It seems every time illegal guns are used in crime. (ie, guns not controlled or registered with the government, and held normally by unlicensed criminals) the target once again is on legal owners instead, and that the honesty of the gun owners who did the right thing legally by registering their firearms will be used against them in the future as certain factions and organisations continue to push for total removal of all firearms from our country. (With the exception of those who are dishonest and criminally owned of course).

There is no provision to use your firearm for anything else. Home invasion protection is way out of the question. Conceal Carry is a pipe dream. In fact - any form of weapon in Australia is illegal to own for the purpose of our own protection. There is some 'gray' area that if that object is used for another purpose (knife in the kitchen for cutting food) and happens to be there if needed in a life threatening situation then you may not get into as much trouble, but it's illegal to keep a baseball bat next to your bed when you don't play baseball and your primary reason of being able to defend yourself in the instance of a home invasion.

I'm a bit rusty on all the facts, so I'm sure someone will correct me if I've stuffed up anywhere, but that's a general overview as I understand Australian firearms laws.

[<<Genesis93>>]

We've had the same gungrabbing forces acting in Aus as in US, literally the same $backed forces, difference is obviously we don't have the 'right to bear arms' clearly stated in our most recent founding documents... these forces had been devising a plan for a revolution in gun laws in Aus and had prepared a plan of action, referred to the national firearm agreement WELL BEFORE 1996, anyone doubting this scratch the surface, and consider how quickly after PAM it fell into place....

It had been said that it would take a massacre before laws would be changed and wammo......the 'event' transpired.

After this incident of 28 April 1996, we had all the State and territory Police minister meet in Canberra (I beleive it was still the Aus & NZ group, but not sure if NZ turned up....not surprisingly, yup cause enzed is technically a state of this commonwealth)

& on the 10th day of May, these pollies and there bureaucratic brains-trust devised a technical document that has gone down in Aus history as the greatest treason against law abiding firearm owners.... ever. A suite of 'proposed laws' 11 days after the incident! Now can any reasonable person state how long it normally takes for the politicians to think-up, draft, debate, revise debate and invoke a law in Australia?? ITs certainly a good deal longer than 11 days or even 11 months! [[The document was prepared a long time before April 1996]]

anyhow, this was an Australia wide agreement that had to be legislated state by state, which did occur but there are various interpretation differences between the states, so all states are very similar, not identical. The federal govt (The Commonwealth) can not legislate on firearm licensing and use, but can do so on customs / imports hence by default do so by 'prohibiting' and regulating imports such as the Adler lever, and other stuff like mags and stock...anything you want to bring in, anything.

So the adler hasnt been been 'banned' just blocked at the border while remaining FULLY 'license-able' in most if not all states, dont know about the stasi-esque states of WA and SA.....

Why did all the states sign up back in 96/97? Its said that the Feds threatened to withhold$$$.... Money generally talks....

[Wes]

I'm sure that like in the USA they vary from state to state as well as having over riding national laws.

Yeah they vary a little, time required to wait before getting your license is a big one. I live in Victoria where things aren't too bad.

Here we have to...

1) Do a mandatory safety course and get a certificate to include with our license application.

2) Submit application with certificate and enough ID to police for criminal history check and to apply.

3) There is mandatory 1 month waiting period before license is issued.

4) Also 1 month waiting period before getting first rifle.

Once you have your first gun, next ones come quicker. We need a permit for each firearm, a dealer submits this on their computer and it usually comes back within a day then we pick up the next rifle.

Pistol is about 9 months to get the license I think, but I haven't done it so don't know the process exactly.

[Arth]

What exactly would you like to know?

That's kinda the key. Putting all out licensing and gun laws here would be a small novel

Basic points though are:

You need a license.

Your subject to criminal background checks to get your license. Even without a criminal record if you're judged to not be a "fit and proper" person due to some other reason your license application can be rejected.

Need a permit for each firearm.

Need a "genuine reason" for each firearm. e.g. hunting, target shooting, pest control...

There are 100 conditions to your license and if you breech any of them you're license can/will be revoked. Some are serious of course, but some are very trivial IMO. Some are frankly ridiculous. Empty brass is considered live ammunition under law in one of our worse off states and having an empty case in your car/pocket would technically be failing to store ammunition correctly under the law.... stupid...

[GLS_1956]

We've had the same gungrabbing forces acting in Aus as in US, literally the same $backed forces, difference is obviously we don't have the 'right to bear arms' clearly stated in our most recent founding documents... these forces had been devising a plan for a revolution in gun laws in Aus and had prepared a plan of action, referred to the national firearm agreement WELL BEFORE 1996, anyone doubting this scratch the surface, and consider how quickly after PAM it fell into place....

It had been said that it would take a massacre before laws would be changed and wammo......the 'event' transpired.

After this incident of 28 April 1996, we had all the State and territory Police minister meet in Canberra (I beleive it was still the Aus & NZ group, but not sure if NZ turned up....not surprisingly, yup cause enzed is technically a state of this commonwealth)

& on the 10th day of May, these pollies and there bureaucratic brains-trust devised a technical document that has gone down in Aus history as the greatest treason against law abiding firearm owners.... ever. A suite of 'proposed laws' 11 days after the incident! Now can any reasonable person state how long it normally takes for the politicians to think-up, draft, debate, revise debate and invoke a law in Australia?? ITs certainly a good deal longer than 11 days or even 11 months! [[The document was prepared a long time before April 1996]]

anyhow, this was an Australia wide agreement that had to be legislated state by state, which did occur but there are various interpretation differences between the states, so all states are very similar, not identical. The federal govt (The Commonwealth) can not legislate on firearm licensing and use, but can do so on customs / imports hence by default do so by 'prohibiting' and regulating imports such as the Adler lever, and other stuff like mags and stock...anything you want to bring in, anything.

So the adler hasnt been been 'banned' just blocked at the border while remaining FULLY 'license-able' in most if not all states, dont know about the stasi-esque states of WA and SA.....

Why did all the states sign up back in 96/97? Its said that the Feds threatened to withhold$$$.... Money generally talks....

What has happened to you in Australia is the dream of many elite politician and their supporters here in the USA. We are fortunate to have had Founding
Fathers that distrusted governmental powers, hence our Constitution that restricts the Federal abilities. While there are a number of states, California and New York being the greatest abusers, we see poling that shows more than half of the American population support gun ownership.

Oklahoma passed a bill a few years ago that allows for the use of suppressors in hunting now.

[Title_II]

At least you can carry a gun in California and New York, unlike the 3 out of 50 states you can't. New Jersey, Maryland, and Hawaii.

[coloradoboy]

it just ain't as good as here in the United States. I used to stay in Queensland so I know a bit about Queensland here is the link to the Qld state law enforcement agency https://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/ ... licensing/. I don't think you can even walk into a academy or basspro or walmart and grab some ammo and walk out no questions asked.

I dislike everything, however I think it would be a good idea if everyone here in the states needed to pass a safety brief before getting their hands on a firearm. It is disconcerting having to walk into BassPro and get a firearm pointed at me just because somebody wanted to check out the sights or whatever. really disconcerting.

[sandgroperbill]

When talking about licensing, we should always consider Western Australia. You're gonna love this...

The first step is to buy a firearm (no, I'm not muddled up, you really do need to buy a firearm first).
You then need to sit a firearms safety test, and have this signed off by an accredited tester (usually someone at the gun club or a gunsmith/lgs)
Next step is to fill out the application, including the serial numbers of the firearms you have purchased, along with serviceability certificates from a gunsmith confirming the firearm is in good functioning order (this includes both brand new as well as used), a letter from a property owner stating the property they own, the feral animals that can be found on the property, the size of the property and what calibres they will allow you to use on their property.
Your application has to state which animals you will destroy with each firearm.
Alternatively, you can get a letter of support from a gun club, but then you are restricted from using your firearms anywhere except gun clubs and ranges. If you want to later use that firearm to hunt on a private property with permission, you have to complete a whole new application (and yup, pay the licensing fees again, get new serviceability certificates, property letters, etc)
You take a sheet that you've printed online with a barcode to the local post office and they take your supporting documentation.
You then wait a 28 day cooling off period.
At the end of the 28 days, you have to contact them in writing to tell them you still want to proceed.
You then wait several. more weeks. During this time, you get a letter stating whether or not it appears your application will be successful. You then have to complete a statutory declaration confirming you have installed a safe, the number of bolts and size of washers you have used, the brand, type and capacity of the safe, what surfaces it has been bolted to, and either attach a series of photos or have it inspected to confirm it meets requirements.
If your application has successful, you then have to wait for your paper license and a letter for the legs holding your firearms confirming that you may now collect your firearms.
If you're unsuccessful, you then have to sell the firearms (remember, step one was you had to already have purchased the firearm). Depending on the LGS, some will just refund your money, some will refund part of your money, and some won't give you a red cent until the firearm has been sold to someone else.

Now, let's say that you have a license and want to add another license. Remove the 28 day cooling off period and the safe installation, but the entire process remains the same.

If you want to co-license your firearms for someone else to use - yup, you guessed it, same process (including serviceability certificates and property letters) plus a letter from the owner confirming you have permission to use said firearms.

Extremely frustrating, lengthy and expensive process.

[<<Genesis93>>]

At least you can carry a gun in California and New York, unlike the 3 out of 50 states you can't. New Jersey, Maryland, and Hawaii.

Technically, in Aus, in Victoria anyway, we CAN carry...as we are licensed for carriage and use....we cant discharge in a town, but we can carry....

No one, well few anyway would walk down the street with a rifle slung as we would in about 25 seconds have SOG (SWAT in your land) swarming with their mp5 and m4s..... you wouldnt be 'breaking' any firearm laws, they find some disturbing the peace type of bs law to charge you with.

its a sad state of affairs we've got ourselves here.

btw, it was Soros apparently who financed the groundwork in AUSTRALIA leading up to the 1996 fiasco.....I also heard 'dame' murdoch was involved with the $$ but have not found anything to substantiate that. Either way, Australia seemed to have been the testbed of guncontrol, the reference for the grabbers in the USA to dream about..

[GLS_1956]

I'm finding the responses to be quite informative. Many politicians and elites hold up Australia as an example of what they want American gun laws to become, of course they are all anti-gunners. Even now in the state of Washington, it's on the northwest corner of the 48 contiguous states, the city of Seattle is proposing a $25 per firearm and $.05 per round "gun violence tax".

[<<Genesis93>>]

will the police pay the violence tax too??

Just consider that whenever the Aussie example is quoted; that absolutely everything stated about the 'supposed' success is based on very selective date interpretation at best, and outright lies at worst.... theres other threads here that point that out.... 96 gun laws were ONLY EVER about taking guns away from the community (while by default not touching the crims). this is very clearly detailed in the Hansard record after the 87 incident...

In Australia we've had a number of multiple murders (massacres as the grabbers cry) and everytime the pollies have whined and carried on about having to do something, and so blatantly they refer to "reducing the numbers of guns in the community" which invariable means taking them from the good guys, those who abide by the laws of the day, whether they agree or not. They wanted a gun registration system so they can know where they are, and in Vic they got it in 83 for longarms..... they complained about only 55% compliance a number of years after it came it, how surprising...

[Baronvonrort]

Many politicians and elites hold up Australia as an example of what they want American gun laws to become, of course they are all anti-gunners.

I find the anti gunners are ignorant with our laws.

Try google for -drive by shooting Sydney
Drive by shootings were unheard of in Sydney before our 1996 laws.

All you need to take from our laws are stop criminals and the mentally ill from having guns then tell those who can have them to lock them up in a safe,anything else is just bulls**t.

[Sender]

At least you can carry a gun in California and New York, unlike the 3 out of 50 states you can't. New Jersey, Maryland, and Hawaii.

Probably some politicians watched the Sopranos and got worried