Applying a Class C licence?

[BenRh]

Hi All

I'm thinking about applying for a cat c license
I'm 19 grew up and still live on my fathers farm. I still help out with a bit of farm work eg shifting sheep, lamb docking and shearing. Anyway I was going to apply for a Class B but heard you can't use other class firearms. My father has a class C license with a semi auto 22 and thinking of getting a pump action shotgun so that would mean I wouldn't be able to use it right?.

So I though I would apply for a class C as the SAPOL website says "This category of licence authorises you to possess firearms for the purpose only of use in a primary production business, as either the operator or an employee or relative." so that would mean I'm eligible. (https://www.police.sa.gov.au/services-a ... ms-licence)

So I'm wondering if anyone has apply for something similar and how difficult would it be. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Im also interested in this one

[scoot]

Cat c is not unobtainable in SA. Don't quote me but From my distant memory you will need to prove you live or work on suitable land ( ie primary producer). & Have just cause to require one.It does however restrict you to one rimfire and one shotgun. Both are for exclusive use on the property.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

I am assuming you want to use the shotgun on your fathers farm? I think you will find if your father has the cat C for farm use you wont be allowed to get it as the farm already has a cat c licence holder. Your father should be able to obtain a shotgun and a rimfire with his cat C.

Also as a rural farm employee you may(Don't take my word for it) be eligible to use your fathers firearms without a licence as your father is the licence holder.

If you have your own farm then you absolutely be allowed a cat c.

[bladeracer]

Hi All

I'm thinking about applying for a cat c license
I'm 19 grew up and still live on my fathers farm. I still help out with a bit of farm work eg shifting sheep, lamb docking and shearing. Anyway I was going to apply for a Class B but heard you can't use other class firearms. My father has a class C license with a semi auto 22 and thinking of getting a pump action shotgun so that would mean I wouldn't be able to use it right?.

So I though I would apply for a class C as the SAPOL website says "This category of licence authorises you to possess firearms for the purpose only of use in a primary production business, as either the operator or an employee or relative." so that would mean I'm eligible. (https://www.police.sa.gov.au/services-a ... ms-licence)

So I'm wondering if anyone has apply for something similar and how difficult would it be. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

You can use any category of firearm you are licenced for. You can have CatA for rimfire rifles (except semi-auto) and shotguns (except semi-auto or pump), CatB for centrefire rifles (except semi-auto), CatH for handguns, and CatC for _one_ semi-auto rimfire rifle _and_ _one_ semi-auto or pump shotgun.

CatC firearms can _only_ be used on the specific properties they're licenced for. If you have a mate that only has CatA then he can only use your CatA firearms and can't have access to any others. In SA you can supervise an unlicensed person on private property with CatA/B, not CatH, and I don't think CatC.

You will need evidence of employment on a Primary Production property, not just a farm or bush block. I'm not sure if they still require you to explain why you can't use CatA/B firearms instead of CatC, but they might.

I think all states have provision for CatC firearms to be used by employees and some family members that work on the property. If you just visit every month or two for a weekend you may not qualify.

If you leave the position of employment you lose the qualification for the CatC licence also.

It may be worth a few hundred dollars to discuss it with a firearms lawyer and even have them draft your application to ensure it goes smoothly.
Ross Williamson, Karrie Loudon and Simon Munslow come immediately to mind, but there may be somebody local to you.

Try discussing it with your dealer as well.

[bladeracer]

If you have your own farm then you absolutely be allowed a cat c.

Only if it's a primary production business, simply owning a farm does not grant you CatC in any state.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

If you have your own farm then you absolutely be allowed a cat c.

Only if it's a primary production business, simply owning a farm does not grant you CatC in any state.

I use the term farm loosely. In QLD whilst it is not law pretty much if you have over 100 acres you will get cat C for pest control on your property and cat D if you have 5000 acres. It does not take much to be a primary producer status, a few head of cattle will do it.

[bladeracer]

If you have your own farm then you absolutely be allowed a cat c.

Only if it's a primary production business, simply owning a farm does not grant you CatC in any state.

I use the term farm loosely. In QLD whilst it is not law pretty much if you have over 100 acres you will get cat C for pest control on your property and cat D if you have 5000 acres. It does not take much to be a primary producer status, a few head of cattle will do it.

Doesn't sound right to me, but I'm not in Queensland.
All landowners have a responsibility to control pest plants and animals, so if you have a farm that you grow or graze nothing on, but it's alive with rabbits, I could see it being viable to apply for CatC. But if's not actually a primary production business you're protecting, they might say you're adequately covered with CatA/B.

Do you actually know anybody with CatC that is not operating an actual primary production enterprise?

[BenRh]

Thanks for all the replies

I have done a bit of research into the subject while I was waiting for the post to be approved.

Looks like I'm eligible under the current legislation. That being 18-3-b-i-B
In the case of a licence authorising the possession of a category C firearm the licensee must be a person who is engaged in such a business as an employee or relative of the operator and lives on or near the land on which the business is carried on, or frequently visits the land for the purposes of the business.

The other conditions of the license (ii), (iii), (iv) are already satisfied under my father's class c license.

Category 5 (primary production) licences.PNG (67.71 KiB) Viewed 8033 times

Just to respond to your responses

Thanks scoot your info seems to be pretty spot on.

Communism_Is_Cancer Never heard of only one licence per property as it wouldn't make sense if there was more that one operator or employee. I could see that you don't need a licence if you were under direct supervision not that I am rural farm employee. I am a relative that helps with the operation of a primary production business.

bladeracer
"You can use any category of firearm you are licenced for." That's what I though otherwise I would just go a class B and use dad's guns.

"You will need evidence of employment on a Primary Production property, not just a farm or bush block." I not a employee but going under relative that helps with the operation of the primary production business. The business has a primary production abn number.

"I think all states have provision for CatC firearms to be used by employees and some family members that work on the property. If you just visit every month or two for a weekend you may not qualify." I live there so shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway thanks for all the responses

[bladeracer]

I can't say if he is correct, but he may be as the CatC firearms are licenced on that property, and the law has provision to allow employees, etc to use CatC firearms licenced to that property, ie, anybody else that might qualify for a CatC licence already has access to CatC firearms on that property. You'll have to query that with Weapons Licencing. As the firearms can't be used anywhere else, they are likely to always be available at the property when required. It would seem pointless if all the employees and family members applied for a licence. I think he may be correct, unless you qualify for your own licence for another property.

[bladeracer]

You will also want to query whether merely living on the property qualifies you to use CatC firearms as well. Merely being a family member or residing at the property I don't believe qualifies you. You have to have some degree of active responsibility in the business side of it, as the firearms are licenced for "business" purposes only.

[BenRh]

I can't say if he is correct, but he may be as the CatC firearms are licenced on that property, and the law has provision to allow employees, etc to use CatC firearms licenced to that property, ie, anybody else that might qualify for a CatC licence already has access to CatC firearms on that property. You'll have to query that with Weapons Licencing. As the firearms can't be used anywhere else, they are likely to always be available at the property when required. It would seem pointless if all the employees and family members applied for a licence. I think he may be correct, unless you qualify for your own licence for another property.

In the case of a licence authorising the possession of a category C firearm the licensee must be a person who is engaged in such a business as an employee or relative of the operator and lives on or near the land on which the business is carried on, or frequently visits the land for the purposes of the business. I seem to fit that definition but I don't really care about buying any more cat c guns as all I want it for is to be able to use the firearms on the property. So I can get rid of the rabbits, hares, foxes and cats just roaming on the place. I do however want to get a bolt action centerfire just for a bit of hunting and target practice. But that's cat B so it's irreverent.

[bladeracer]

I can't say if he is correct, but he may be as the CatC firearms are licenced on that property, and the law has provision to allow employees, etc to use CatC firearms licenced to that property, ie, anybody else that might qualify for a CatC licence already has access to CatC firearms on that property. You'll have to query that with Weapons Licencing. As the firearms can't be used anywhere else, they are likely to always be available at the property when required. It would seem pointless if all the employees and family members applied for a licence. I think he may be correct, unless you qualify for your own licence for another property.

In the case of a licence authorising the possession of a category C firearm the licensee must be a person who is engaged in such a business as an employee or relative of the operator and lives on or near the land on which the business is carried on, or frequently visits the land for the purposes of the business. I seem to fit that definition but I don't really care about buying any more cat c guns as all I want it for is to be able to use the firearms on the property. So I can get rid of the rabbits, hares, foxes and cats just roaming on the place. I do however want to get a bolt action centerfire just for a bit of hunting and target practice. But that's cat B so it's irreverent.

That clause is specifying the reason the _licencee_ (your dad) is authorised to possess CatC firearms. If SA does have a similar view to only issuing one CatC licence to a property, then the clause only applies to your dad in this instance - he is the licencee.

I'm not certain that the provision for employees to use CatC firearms includes unlicensed people, I'd have to check that. It may simply mean that users don't need CatC, but may still need CatA or B to be allowed to handle any firearms unsupervised (as that is the law).

As long as you are engaged in the business as a relative, then you should already qualify to use your dad's CatC rifle. Your dad can make application for a pump-gun as well.

Get CatA/B, so you can have rimfires and shotguns as well, CatB is only for centrefire rifles.

[bladeracer]

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/services-a ... ms-licence

My reading of this under "Primary Production" would be that to use firearms for purposes of primary production does require a licence with this as your genuine reason, even as an employee or relative. You will want to confirm that, though your dealer should be able to explain the laws.

It does not appear - to me - to allow unlicensed people to use any firearms on the property unsupervised, including CatC, not even employees or relatives.

[cz515]

BR, I believe CiC is correct. You can be a primary producer with a couple of sheep or cows. You need a pic number (or is equivalent). And a letter from your accountant or stock agent.

Saying that unless it's a bush block it's quite difficult to keep grass down on 100 acres so you end up having a few cows, which you might as well breed and sell....aka primary producer.

[Bugman]

If you think that you are suitable for a Cat C licence, then really all you can do is apply to the authorities. It will be up to them, obviously, to adjudicate if you fit the Cat C requirements based on the information you provide. Simple as that.

[bladeracer]

BR, I believe CiC is correct. You can be a primary producer with a couple of sheep or cows. You need a pic number (or is equivalent). And a letter from your accountant or stock agent.

Saying that unless it's a bush block it's quite difficult to keep grass down on 100 acres so you end up having a few cows, which you might as well breed and sell....aka primary producer.

I didn't say you couldn't be primary producer, even with no cattle. But merely owning a farm doesn't confer primary producer status in itself, or CatC qualification.

People around here let us graze their blocks with our heavy-duty, fully-automatic lawnmowers, it saves them having to pay somebody to cut and bale, and lots of smaller blocks can be difficult to cut due to slopes and trees.

[bladeracer]

If you think that you are suitable for a Cat C licence, then really all you can do is apply to the authorities. It will be up to them, obviously, to adjudicate if you fit the Cat C requirements based on the information you provide. Simple as that.

But getting knocked back is rarely helpful to have on your record. That's why I suggest getting legal advise before going ahead with a potentially spurious (in their view) application.

[Bugman]

I think if the applicant has done their homework, there should not be a problem as such, but then again, it will be up to the powers that be. I know of only one case where a shooter applied for a Cat C (here in NSW), had taken legal advice as to how to correctly apply, what to write, what evidence to support such category application etc etc
and still got knocked back. This person went back to his legal advisor who suggested an appeal. It worked, but cost this person a fair bit more than they bargained for.
I can't see how a knock back can be detrimental to your licence record, but then gain each state is different in their own small way, so yes there could be a risk of being "ear marked" by some overpaid, and ill informed bureaucrat.

[bladeracer]

I think if the applicant has done their homework, there should not be a problem as such, but then again, it will be up to the powers that be. I know of only one case where a shooter applied for a Cat C (here in NSW), had taken legal advice as to how to correctly apply, what to write, what evidence to support such category application etc etc
and still got knocked back. This person went back to his legal advisor who suggested an appeal. It worked, but cost this person a fair bit more than they bargained for.
I can't see how a knock back can be detrimental to your licence record, but then gain each state is different in their own small way, so yes there could be a risk of being "ear marked" by some overpaid, and ill informed bureaucrat.

In '91 I applied to add a .223 rifle to my pistol licence while I was working up in the Kimberley (I was living and working with local people on indigenous communities). Unbeknown to me, the friend of a friend that I'd sold my car to before leaving had been parking it all over Perth and running up a very long list of parking offenses, resulting in five warrants in my name, that I knew nothing about. Back then, Police were more interested in helping people, even in WA. So I eventually received a message at the community I was at to call Firearms in Perth. They told me that they could not approve my application while these warrants existed, and allowed me to withdraw my application while I sorted them (which simply involved proving that I had been living 3300km away during the entire period, not difficult as local Argyle Police had been well aware of my presence during their numerous attempts to illegally seize my handgun). I drew from that experience that there are potential ramifications to having denials listed on your firearms record. I don't even lodge a PtA until I'm very certain it won't be a problem.

[Bugman]

Yep. No matter what we do with good intent, some bureaucrat will try to offset a fair and reasonable outcome. All I can say is that I hope BenRH achieves his goal.

[bladeracer]

Yep. No matter what we do with good intent, some bureaucrat will try to offset a fair and reasonable outcome. All I can say is that I hope BenRH achieves his goal.

Seconded from me

[BenRh]

Thanks guys for all the answers

You have given me a bit to think about. I would talk to our dealer but he's just a hardware store with ammo in the corner. Might chat to a dealer next time I visit Adelaide. Would it be worth talking to the Firearms branch for clarification on the law?

One more question. If I was to put an application in and it get rejected based on the cat C part would that mean I'm still eligible for a A/B under the same application because it a far bit of a wait otherwise.

Anyway Cheers for the info.

[bladeracer]

Thanks guys for all the answers

You have given me a bit to think about. I would talk to our dealer but he's just a hardware store with ammo in the corner. Might chat to a dealer next time I visit Adelaide. Would it be worth talking to the Firearms branch for clarification on the law?

One more question. If I was to put an application in and it get rejected based on the cat C part would that mean I'm still eligible for a A/B under the same application because it a far bit of a wait otherwise.

Anyway Cheers for the info.

I would get your CatA/B happening ASAP as you won't need as much supporting documentation, and it will allow you to use your dad's CatA/B/C as an employee anyway, and it will still take a few months to come through.
You can try to add CatC anytime.
Get your licence and get out there shooting, you may well find you no longer want CatC anyway. Get yourself a CatA lever or straight-pull gun while you're waiting on your dad's pump-gun application.

I don't see a CatC refusal will necessarily affect your CatA/B application, but by the time you hear back on the CatC you might already have your CatA/B licence and be out shooting already.

How long has your dad had CatC and how long did it take to get approved?

[olly_2001]

Just for info… to be registered for primary production the tax man has an informal number of 20 head of cattle turning over/on the property to be happy. A few won’t do it.
I have 60 and just got my Cat C with in 2 months of application.