Gun safes in SA

[luvmeadler]

Hey guys,

Sent this to SAPOL via email;

Just making an enquiry about the legality of bolting 2 safes (level 2) together,
The safes weigh 75kg each so combined they would weigh 150kg so they would not need to be secured to the building.
My question is would this be legal as i cannot find any information within the legislation about combining 2 safes together.


Response from SAPOL via email;

In relation to your enquiry regarding bolting 2 safes together for the purpose of obtaining a weight of 150 kilograms.

I cannot provide specific direction as the legislation is silent on this point.

The Firearm Regulations 2017 states as follows:



“storage level 2—a firearm is secured in accordance with the requirements of storage level 2 if— (a) it is locked in a level 2 safe located in a building or outbuilding on the premises in which it is kept; and (b) unless the safe weighs at least 150 kilograms when empty, the safe is bolted to a solid concrete, brick, metal or timber floor, wall or other permanent internal structure of the building or outbuilding in which it is located with at least 2 solid anchor bolts; and…”

There is no issue with bolting two safes together however I would still suggest attaching the safe/s to the building per Regulation unless the safe/s are both at least 150 kilograms when empty.

I trust this provide some direction.

Kind Regards..................

So just putting it out there to see what everyone thinks..

Cheers.

[bladeracer]

Hey guys,

Sent this to SAPOL via email;

Just making an enquiry about the legality of bolting 2 safes (level 2) together,
The safes weigh 75kg each so combined they would weigh 150kg so they would not need to be secured to the building.
My question is would this be legal as i cannot find any information within the legislation about combining 2 safes together.


Response from SAPOL via email;

In relation to your enquiry regarding bolting 2 safes together for the purpose of obtaining a weight of 150 kilograms.

I cannot provide specific direction as the legislation is silent on this point.

The Firearm Regulations 2017 states as follows:



“storage level 2—a firearm is secured in accordance with the requirements of storage level 2 if— (a) it is locked in a level 2 safe located in a building or outbuilding on the premises in which it is kept; and (b) unless the safe weighs at least 150 kilograms when empty, the safe is bolted to a solid concrete, brick, metal or timber floor, wall or other permanent internal structure of the building or outbuilding in which it is located with at least 2 solid anchor bolts; and…”

There is no issue with bolting two safes together however I would still suggest attaching the safe/s to the building per Regulation unless the safe/s are both at least 150 kilograms when empty.

I trust this provide some direction.

Kind Regards..................

So just putting it out there to see what everyone thinks..

Cheers.

In Victoria they would need to be permanently attached, meaning welded.
Even over 150kg I would still recommend bolting it into the structure.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

[bladeracer]

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

I think an issue with bolting them is it leaves a gap that can be wedged open until the bolts tear through the steel, then the thieves have two 75kg safes not bolted down.
Bolt it down, regardless of what it weighs, it's neither difficult or expensive to do.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

I think an issue with bolting them is it leaves a gap that can be wedged open until the bolts tear through the steel, then the thieves have two 75kg safes not bolted down.
Bolt it down, regardless of what it weighs, it's neither difficult or expensive to do.

I agree mate, bolting it down is the easiest option. I am a little torn here though because whilst I think he should bolt it down to be compliant, I am a lover of freedom so if old mate thinks he is following the law and can justify his actions to the court(if needbe) then I support his decision.

I do wonder though because he asked the question if the police will be doing an inspection in the next month or so.

[Shootermick]

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

I’ve got a mate in Victoria who bolted two together when he was in a rental place and couldn’t permanently bolt them down. Not sure if it was actually legal or not, but he’s since bought his own place now and they are dyna bolted into the concrete floor of his shed.
I bought a big 150kg Spika safe last year. I thought I might not have to bolt it down, but it was front heavy when you open the door with rifles also in the rack inside the door. So it’s dyna bolted down too, it was easier to do than a smaller safe anyway because there’s so much room inside it to get in there with the drill. I don’t see why you wouldn’t attach a safe to a structure one way or another, unless your landlord wouldn’t permit it.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

I’ve got a mate in Victoria who bolted two together when he was in a rental place and couldn’t permanently bolt them down. Not sure if it was actually legal or not, but he’s since bought his own place now and they are dyna bolted into the concrete floor of his shed.
I bought a big 150kg Spika safe last year. I thought I might not have to bolt it down, but it was front heavy when you open the door with rifles also in the rack inside the door. So it’s dyna bolted down too, it was easier to do than a smaller safe anyway because there’s so much room inside it to get in there with the drill. I don’t see why you wouldn’t attach a safe to a structure one way or another, unless your landlord wouldn’t permit it.

I agree mate. Bolting down is the way to go regradless of weight. Interestingly through in QLD only D,H,R firearms have to be “bolted to the frame or floor of a permanent building”. A,B,C firearms if under 150kg say they must be “securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent building” so “securely fixed” can be some kind of rope, ziptie or strap etc because the law makes the distinction between the wording of bolted and securly fixed. Most people however just bolt it because it is the easiest method.

[bladeracer]

I doubt zip-ties or rope complies with anybody's definition of securely attached.

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

I’ve got a mate in Victoria who bolted two together when he was in a rental place and couldn’t permanently bolt them down. Not sure if it was actually legal or not, but he’s since bought his own place now and they are dyna bolted into the concrete floor of his shed.
I bought a big 150kg Spika safe last year. I thought I might not have to bolt it down, but it was front heavy when you open the door with rifles also in the rack inside the door. So it’s dyna bolted down too, it was easier to do than a smaller safe anyway because there’s so much room inside it to get in there with the drill. I don’t see why you wouldn’t attach a safe to a structure one way or another, unless your landlord wouldn’t permit it.

I agree mate. Bolting down is the way to go regradless of weight. Interestingly through in QLD only D,H,R firearms have to be “bolted to the frame or floor of a permanent building”. A,B,C firearms if under 150kg say they must be “securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent building” so “securely fixed” can be some kind of rope, ziptie or strap etc because the law makes the distinction between the wording of bolted and securly fixed. Most people however just bolt it because it is the easiest method.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

I would disagree mate, "securely fixed" could be complied with by simply having a few simple holes or maybe a bracket in the frame or floor of a permeant building and a zip-tie or rope attached to it which will cause the safe(container) to not move.

Even a zip-tie or strap that is attached to the safe(container) and that is attached to an awning or rail or anything that is fixed to the frame or floor of a permeant building.

We know due to the wording that it does not have to be bolted.

I doubt zip-ties or rope complies with anybody's definition of securely attached.

From a legal standpoint, who the hell knows. Would a judge consider that bolting them together makes them into a single item of 150kg or still 2 seperate items each under 150kg because they are not a unified object? Who knows.

Honestly I would bolt them down or just buy 1 safe thats 150kg if you don't want to bolt them.

I’ve got a mate in Victoria who bolted two together when he was in a rental place and couldn’t permanently bolt them down. Not sure if it was actually legal or not, but he’s since bought his own place now and they are dyna bolted into the concrete floor of his shed.
I bought a big 150kg Spika safe last year. I thought I might not have to bolt it down, but it was front heavy when you open the door with rifles also in the rack inside the door. So it’s dyna bolted down too, it was easier to do than a smaller safe anyway because there’s so much room inside it to get in there with the drill. I don’t see why you wouldn’t attach a safe to a structure one way or another, unless your landlord wouldn’t permit it.

I agree mate. Bolting down is the way to go regradless of weight. Interestingly through in QLD only D,H,R firearms have to be “bolted to the frame or floor of a permanent building”. A,B,C firearms if under 150kg say they must be “securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent building” so “securely fixed” can be some kind of rope, ziptie or strap etc because the law makes the distinction between the wording of bolted and securly fixed. Most people however just bolt it because it is the easiest method.

[bladeracer]

Secure has numerous meanings. In the context of security it means unable to be taken by somebody. Cutting a zip-tie is not "secure" or "fixed to the structure". If somebody can remove the safe from the premises with a knife or sidecutters then it is not "secured" to the structure of the building.

I would disagree mate, "securely fixed" could be complied with by simply having a few simple holes or maybe a bracket in the frame or floor of a permanent building and a zip-tie or rope attached to it which will cause the safe(container) to not move.

Even a zip-tie or strap that is attached to the safe(container) and that is attached to an awning or rail or anything that is fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent building.

We know due to the wording that it does not have to be bolted.

[No1Mk3]

Each state may have it's interpretaion, but here in Vic, according to friends who work at Licensing "securely fixed" means a dynabolt or equivalent into solid material such as concrete or bedrock or a coachbolt through such material or a coachscrew or Tekscrew into the building frame from inside the safe. They would accept an external angle bracket welded to the safe and fixed with non-removable fasteners. Anything short,you are likely to be given a day or week to change if the inspecting officer is kind to you. Bolting 2 safes together has been accepted if no gap exists and all such fasteners are internally mounted (I have done this, and since cut out the dividing walls and tack welded the seams as well). Many posts here seem to imply that whatever the maximum is should be your minimum standard and I agree wholeheartedly with that way of thinking, Cheers.

[luvmeadler]

Thanks for all the comments guys.... good to read what other LFO are thinking..

The reason behind this question to SAPOL was it was only going to a temporary fix,
I lost everything last September due to a shed fire in which my firearms and safes were destroyed
Its been four months now and I'm not going to have the shed replaced for another four months
due to lack of builders, covid and a slack insurance company.
I cant bolt safes in the house just got nowhere to do it

My thoughts were to get two 75kg safes just so i can move them around easier into the hallway, ( wifey not happy with the idea) bolt them together so i can start replacing what i lost..... Might just have to wait to keep the peace i spose