Opinions on the requirement to store firearms securely

[Sender]

I notice on another forum or two this view is expressed at times. Not a lot, but it comes up now and then.

If you haven't read these, the short version is people complaining about having to store their firearms because they personally handle them responsibly in their own home.

If they were not secured and a criminal stole them and did harm with them, the owners say they'd feel no responsibility for it whatsoever. "I didn't invite them to steal them", "I didn't tell them to shoot someone". That kind of comment.

Outside of those 4 walls they wash there hands of all that could potentially happen.

I haven't bothered asking on the other forum as I'd expect nothing less than being flamed and few constructive comments. But I expect, hope, we can be a little more constructive here.

I'm not talking about targeted break ins here as much as thieves stumbling across firearm owners. No safe is invulnerable, but for a few hundred bucks they'll stop crimes of opportunity and the thief who just breaks a window with his elbow or jimmys a door with a screwdriver.

It's a fact there are break ins, thefts, and a thief who stumbled across a firearm sitting in the open would likely take it. Given that, do you think there is any justification or argument for not having legal storage requirements?

I have my expectations, but I'd like to know peoples opinions and get a feel for the general consensus without just my assumptions.

[Noisydad]

While I fondly remember the days when dads and my guns sat in a rack by the back door, I fully support locking them up!

To many opportunistic meth heads looking for the easy way to finance their habits these days and I've worked to hard to earn my toys to give them away!

[Lyam]

Plenty or reasons to lock them up,

None not too.

IMO.

[yoshie]

I agree, it's better to lock them up. Just imagine if your child had access to them and a fatality occurred. That's something I could live without. It's not that hard or expensive to lock them up. I personally don't think any safe will stop a professional thief. If they want your guns they will get them and if you drive around with shooting and gun stickers on your car you're just asking to be targeted. Gun safes are more for stopping unauthorised access not stopping thieves. Ask a locksmith about safes and the first thing they say is they're not a safe, they're a strong box. Safes are rated with a value amount they can reasonably be expected to protect, gun safes are rated at $0

[bigfellascott]

I'm of a time when you could put em on the wall, behind the door, under the bed, in the cupboard and anywhere else you liked, even on a rack in the 4by, I miss those sort of times where we were allowed to think for ourselves.

I don't mind them being locked away but I do object to having to register them and have safe inspections etc mainly because I don't trust those who handle our info to do the right thing.

[yoshie]

I think experience has taught us that as a society we can't think for ourselves. No one is responsible for there own actions anymore and we sue each other at the drop of a hat.

It's a sad to think of what we've lost and scary to think what we might loose in the future.

I agree about licencing and safe inspections, if we've got a gun licence why do we have to put in I permit to buy one?? I can kinda see why we have a 28 day waiting period for our first but each one after?? And safe inspections, what are they hoping to find? Illegal weapons stored with our legal ones?

I think shooters need to be seen as trusted members of the community (we've all had police checks) yet were treated as criminals. When we get stopped by police it shows on their car computer "firearm owner, approach with caution" what a joke!

[Norton]

I don't mind them being locked away but I do object to having to register them and have safe inspections etc mainly because I don't trust those who handle our info to do the right thing.

Yep, I'd lock everything away regardless.

Crims, kids, you never know.

I'd do without the rest though.

[coroboreeboy]

Aside from the issue of criminals stealing our guns, I believe that we have a responsibility to make sure that children can't have access to our guns.

We hear enough stories from the US where a kid shoots somebody (usually another kid) with a gun that they had easy access to. In fact, we had a case here in FNQ early this year where a kid was shot and killed while playing with an unsecured shotgun in the bedroom of the family home.

And it's all very well to say that we don't have kids, but can we guarantee that we'll never have visitors with kids? To my mind, it's a lot like having a pool fence, the consequences of not having the "insurance" of a pool fence or a gun safe can be so horrific, that it doesn't bear thinking about.

I agree that, like anything where bureaucrats become involved, we tend to suffer under a load of bulldust, but in the end, in this case, possibly the end justifies the means.

[Mattj82]

I have a young child with young friends, reason enough to lock them away.

Matt

[brett1868]

I don't mind all the hassle of getting a license, applying for PTA's or having to store the rifles locked in a safe if it allows me the pleasure of shooting them. I have a fairly large collection of firearms and take their security seriously and have invested heavily in securing them properly.

There are reasons for applying for a PTA for each rifle as it allows a regular check of your license status ensuring it hadn't been recently cancelled or revoked. In NSW I'd like to see an online system at the dealers where you could obtain an immediate clearance to purchase a firearm provided you already had one registered in the same class instead of the current 2 week turnaround.

Also I'd like the police to inspect safe's and sign off on their compliance before issuing the first PTA as inspections can be done years after the first firearm is purchased and the safe or storage may be crap or non-existent.

How many people buy firearms and only worry about their proper safe storage when they get inspected? I bet it's plenty and that's a lot of guns with potential of being stolen.

Keep in mind that most members of this forum could be considered as enthusiasts and take the responsible approach but there's thousands of licensed shooters out there that shouldn't be allowed to touch a firearm let alone own one.

[RealNick]

When we get stopped by police it shows on their car computer "firearm owner, approach with caution" what a joke!

I've wondered about that... I've been pulled over a handful of times and never had it mentioned.

After getting my license I suspected you might get a casual 'travelling with any firearms today?' so they'd make sure you had your ammo locked up and the rest, but nothing.

No surprise if something did show for them, not saying you're wrong. Sort of makes me wonder if it does though.

[yoshie]

I've been pulled over in Canberra and asked "do you have any guns in the car, where are your guns" I told the officer they were at home locked away, he was happy with that.

I've also been breathealized in Cooma and it was pretty clear we'd been hunting. And were asked if our guns were locked up, we said yes, of course, they didn't check.

They were looking to drunk drivers coming back from the ski fields. I've been told QLD police has the same capability.

[Lorgar]

Also I'd like the police to inspect safe's and sign off on their compliance before issuing the first PTA as inspections can be done years after the first firearm is purchased and the safe or storage may be crap or non-existent.

It was a few years before I had mine, and the same case for other shooters I know.

(All secured properly before then of course, just commenting on the point...)

[RealNick]

I've been pulled over in Canberra and asked "do you have any guns in the car, where are your guns" I told the officer they were at home locked away, he was happy with that.

I've also been breathealized in Cooma and it was pretty clear we'd been hunting. And were asked if our guns were locked up, we said yes, of course, they didn't check.

Well there you go

[Korkt]

If they were not secured and a criminal stole them and did harm with them, the owners say they'd feel no responsibility for it whatsoever. "I didn't invite them to steal them", "I didn't tell them to shoot someone". That kind of comment.

Frankly it's bulls**t.

I bet these same people aren't leaving their keys in the car when they park it are they? By that logic they should be as they 'didn't invite' someone to steal their car.

Is it your fault your car got stolen because you left the keys in it? Everyone would say you contributed greatly to the loss there, and I think most would give a flat 'yes'.

As already commented, there is every reason to secure them and non to leave them out.

[Point223]

Arms must be locked. PERIOD. Kids, thieve, etc..

I object to having to have my house inspected by a police officer whom I don't trust and who probably hates the fact that i own a gun. i OBJECT to having to give away my address everytime i buy ammo.

[brett1868]

Rules are rules and that's the price of admission to the sport. Don't like the rules then don't play, easy as that.

[Seconds]

Also I'd like the police to inspect safe's and sign off on their compliance before issuing the first PTA as inspections can be done years after the first firearm is purchased and the safe or storage may be crap or non-existent.

That is the case in WA and QLD I think?

[Mattj82]

Also I'd like the police to inspect safe's and sign off on their compliance before issuing the first PTA as inspections can be done years after the first firearm is purchased and the safe or storage may be crap or non-existent.

That is the case in WA and QLD I think?

In WA you have to send pics of your installation, they don't generally come and inspect right away.

Matt

[Mark.A]

I cant see any reason not to lock them up, I hear compltaints a lot on sites and at the range, that if someone broke in, and the owner wanted to defend themselves, they would have to find keys for safes and and and.. Honestly, if I was staring down the barrell of a 303, 30-06, even a 22 in the early hours, I wouldnt be to concerned that it had a bolt, or ammunition, The simple fact that someone was pointing a weapon at me would give me pause.. (Not that I do clandestine entry to houses out of hours..)

I store my weapons as best as I can, I have One Large Safe, Three ammunition safes, inside a locked room, with a monitored security alarm (Tech nerd), you disarm the alarm, the control room knows its disarmed, and you get 10 minutes to get in and out, but you need keys and codes to get into the safes, yes its a little over the top in some peoples eyes, but I would feel personally responsible if my rifles where stolen or tampered with and someone got hurt, Its just me, Doing all I can to make sure I am protected and those around me are protected is a responsibility of any responsible and sane citizen in my opinion.

I do enjoy hearing the old war stories at the GS and at the Range, about how weapons where left loaded near doors, and in reach of people, but that was a saner simpler time, people respected other peoples belongings, they understood the danger involved in items, and they took personal responsibility for there own actions, rather than trying to make it everyone elses problem.

Just my 3c.. Minus GST, which is 2.70c (How do you get .7 of a cent? A Drift and a hammer!)

End

Mark

[Seconds]

In WA you have to send pics of your installation, they don't generally come and inspect right away.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[squirrelhunter]

Not that I do clandestine entry to houses out of hours

Only during business hours?

[jubble]

I hear compltaints a lot on sites and at the range, that if someone broke in, and the owner wanted to defend themselves...

More chance of it going wrong if they're not locked up compared to that IMO.

Lock em up.

[Pilch]

Strange viewpoint in the US on this too.

A lot of them think locking them is infringes their 'right to bear arms'.

Not taking them away, just locking them up. You see what they get for it though...

[headspace]

I also come from an earlier time when there was no law compelling you to lock your guns away.

I first began shooting at the ANZAC range near Liverpool and would take the train. I'd be sitting there clutching my 303 target rifle, bolt in of course and no cover on it. Imagine if you did that today! The train would be panic braked, there would be black clad cops abseiling down from bridges and choppers over head.

It's all different now and all things change, and we along with it. I now secure my gun as the law insists and don't have a problem with it. I don't go in for the business of home defence because if you point a gun at someone you better be prepared to use it and not too many people are, or to live with the consequences.

However I agree that once you have a license all subsequent gun purchases should be immediate without the BS 14 day "cooling off" crap. I disagree that we are treated like criminals though, if we were we'd be up in front of the beak and be sentenced to 2 days good behaviour and a chocolate frog.

The laws are too easy on the real crims.

JD

[coroboreeboy]

When we get stopped by police it shows on their car computer "firearm owner, approach with caution" what a joke!

I've wondered about that... I've been pulled over a handful of times and never had it mentioned.

After getting my license I suspected you might get a casual 'travelling with any firearms today?' so they'd make sure you had your ammo locked up and the rest, but nothing.

No surprise if something did show for them, not saying you're wrong. Sort of makes me wonder if it does though.

I'm not sure about this either. About 6 months ago, early one morning, we were raided by the drug squad with a search warrant. They quickly looked in all the rooms in the house and soon realised that they had the wrong place. Although the warrant was for our address, they should have been next-door. Interestingly, although my house is the safe storage for 3 handguns. the subject was never raised. Did the Police not know that the house that they were searching was a place where firearms are kept? You would expect that that would be one of the first things they would need to know.

[pajamatime]

no brainer...lock em up.

[Bourt]

The laws are too easy on the real crims.

But they're too hard to catch so they focus on us

[Herdsman]

no brainer...lock em up.

+1

[vonfram88]

Pain in the arse but absolutely essential. my place is like Fort Knox because I don't want anyone touching my things and I wear an XXL tinfoil hat.