PTA question for all states

[Stubbles McBeard]

In SA, we have a mandatory 28 day wait before a PTA for the first firearm in any category is approved, I think there is a similar rule in other states as well.

Does anyone know if this 28 days begins from the date the form is submitted, or from the day firearms branch get around to the form? They're currently 5 weeks behind in processing PTA forms, so hopefully they take that into consideration.... Wishful thinking perhaps.

[Gwion]

Can't say about SA, but in Tas it's 28 days from the day it's processed.

[Stubbles McBeard]

Thought as much. Oh well, more time to save money for more ammo I guess.

[AnotherMisfire]

Legal requirement is the 28th day from "lodgement" in Qld. I think the legal requirement is the same in all the other states laws.

I'm interested to hear what you said Gwion - your registry's website says lodged:

"It is a requirement under the Act that a firearms licence or permit to acquire a firearm cannot be granted before 28 days from the date the application is lodged."

[GLS_1956]

The grave injustices done to good people. Here in the USA I get bothered when I have to wait for our NIBC, National Instant Background Check, which takes from 5 minutes to, I'm told, an hour. I'll admit the longest it has taken for me 15 minutes and that was at a gunshow.

Now I do understand that a few states have imposed some waiting periods, 5 to 10 days, and I can't recall if those waiting periods are for all guns or just handguns. Then I read postings like this where you good and law abiding people are compelled to endure bureaucratic imposed waiting periods that spans a lunar month. Add to that the alphabet soup of your gun classification laws, idiotic bans and hoops you have to jump through, makes me want to cry.

In the later half of 1944 my father, a then 18 yr old paratrooper from Kansas, got off of a ship in, or near, Darwin on his way to Papua New Guinea, the Philippines and eventually Japan. Dad had nothing but praise for the Australian people. Your friendliness, good humor, stoicism and determination impressed him as much as your military's fighting ability even if, as dad would say, you Aussies wear funny looking hats. It is so sad to see a country and a people that have been a champion of freedom and liberty from the First World War, Second World War (where your troops fought on all fronts), Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam and even today in the gulf war, treating it's people like they're not to be trusted just because of the action a few sick individuals.

[Gwion]

Legal requirement is the 28th day from "lodgement" in Qld. I think the legal requirement is the same in all the other states laws.

I'm interested to hear what you said Gwion - your registry's website says lodged:

"It is a requirement under the Act that a firearms licence or permit to acquire a firearm cannot be granted before 28 days from the date the application is lodged."

Might say lodgement but my first ones took longer and have been told by gun shops and others that it's 28 days after they see it. My guess is that it is considered lodged when it is processed by the officer involved. It can't be lodged until someone sees it in a manual system. An online system would be much better for all involved.

In Tas, most people lodge at Service Tas offices. I don't know what their process is. I have not seen them stamp or register the app on their terminals; so they may just gather them up and post them off once a week for all i know.
Again, this is in Tas only and i'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows more accurately, for a fact.

EDIT: PS. My last couple i have posted directly to the registry office after chatting with an officer there because they were builds. They came within the month.

[<<Genesis93>>]

In SA, we have a mandatory 28 day wait before a PTA for the first firearm in any category is approved, I think there is a similar rule in other states as well. Does anyone know if this 28 days begins from the date the form is submitted, or from the day firearms branch get around to the form? They're currently 5 weeks behind in processing PTA forms, so hopefully they take that into consideration.... Wishful thinking perhaps.

Its all about opinion.....and discretion.....with a very small measure of accountability.

The 28 days commences with the date of 'the application' - in my opinion when you drop the form in the post box YOU have made application. OK, let's say once 'received' by the registrar at the other end an application 'has been made'.....no doubt for the convenience of the police staffers and the inconvenience of the prospective firearm owner the application will be 'made' once the person who actually reads or processes the form looks at it... You'll find that the interpretation by the police will not favour the shooter, it is all designed to stifle, disrupt and discourage the pursuit....

In jurisdictions where email is recognised.... like in VIC, once you press the send button - application has been made IMO.

HOWEVER

Thats is all for nothing, a day here, or a day there, a week there even... WHY?

SA Firearms Act;
"....... a permit authorising the acquisition of a firearm can only be granted—(a) after the expiration of 28 days after the application for the permit was made...."

after 28 days does not mean on the 28th day or the 29th... but some time AFTER...... if its after 5 weeks so what they'll say; the law says that they cant issue BEFORE 28 days...

If however you already own a firearm 'of the same class' - they MUST grant the permit "...as soon as practicable after receiving the application." If however there is a 5 week backlog, or even 10 weeks..... it's not 'practicable' is their defence - and you'll wait as long as necessary.

[<<Genesis93>>]

In Bananaland, there is 'deciding' and issuing..... If you already own a firearm (no reference to type) they must 'decide' some time AFTER the end of the lodgement day...... then the question becomes how long the issuing will take as practicable.

The language is as usual like saying definitely maybe.....MUST decide sometime......not fussed when, as long as its after what the tards refer to as the 'cooling off period' because in their mind the only time lawful licence holder want to buy a gun, is when they have a spat with the neighbour, or the wife, and want to 'sort it out'.... effing tards....

QLD Weapons Act:

"An authorised officer must decide an application for a permit to acquire a weapon as soon as practicable after the end of any period that may be prescribed for this section under a regulation."

QLD Weapons Regs:

Waiting period for decision on application for permit to acquire
.
(1) This section prescribes the period for section 42 of the Act.
(2) The period is 28 days after the day the applicant lodges the application for the permit to acquire the weapon.
(3) However, if—
(a) the applicant already holds a firearm under a licence; or
(b) an authorised officer is satisfied there are exceptional circumstances; the period is the remainder of the day on which the applicant lodges the application for the permit....

....

[sandgroperbill]

We don't have PTAs in WA

[AnotherMisfire]

We don't have PTAs in WA

You might be about to - the WA Act is currently under review and Permits to Acquire was a core part of the 1996 NFA.

[<<Genesis93>>]

We don't have PTAs in WA

SO how would you acquire a new rifle, say if you went to the dealer tomorrow, picked out your next firearm...... what process, cost and time is involved.??

[Spudman75]

Very simple answer...

Give them a ring. Most of the time they are less than helpful, but you can usually get them to push it through. For a second PTA of the same category they "Must" process it a timely fashion as per the legislation. Make sure you tell them it is Section 15 (4a)... also please read the legislation so you get an understanding of what it says (if you haven't already).

Be happy to ring them daily and keep chasing it up. The best I have had is same day service (within a few hours), be sure to ask for the guy in charge if the normal people won't help.

They put all PTA's for new people and everyone else into a single pile is reverse date order... so Section 15 (4a) doesn't get a leg up unless you ring them in protest.

Also if you can, tell them you will pick it up from Wakefield St (that is were they are). Don't get me started on AusPost!!!! Now with minimum 6 business day wait on delivery, you are better picking it up.

[Stubbles McBeard]

Very simple answer...

Give them a ring. Most of the time they are less than helpful, but you can usually get them to push it through. For a second PTA of the same category they "Must" process it a timely fashion as per the legislation. Make sure you tell them it is Section 15 (4a)... also please read the legislation so you get an understanding of what it says (if you haven't already).

Be happy to ring them daily and keep chasing it up. The best I have had is same day service (within a few hours), be sure to ask for the guy in charge if the normal people won't help.

They put all PTA's for new people and everyone else into a single pile is reverse date order... so Section 15 (4a) doesn't get a leg up unless you ring them in protest.

Also if you can, tell them you will pick it up from Wakefield St (that is were they are). Don't get me started on AusPost!!!! Now with minimum 6 business day wait on delivery, you are better picking it up.

Cheers for the advice mate. I'll give them a call Monday, see how things are moving.

[sandgroperbill]

We don't have PTAs in WA

SO how would you acquire a new rifle, say if you went to the dealer tomorrow, picked out your next firearm...... what process, cost and time is involved.??

First step is to purchase a firearm, then you havet o get the dealer to give it a serviceability certificate (even if it is new). Then you have to get your justification in the form of property letters or a letter from your club. The property letter has to state the caliber/s they are allowing you to use and the species they are allowing you to hunt. Yout hen habe to fill out yoir license application online, take it to aus post along with your id and all the paperwork, pay the $180 fee and then wait. Once/if approved, you take your new license to the dealer where your firearms are being stored and pick them up.

So, basically, nearly identical to getting your original license, minus the 28 days, but not uncommon for it to take that long, anyway

[AnotherMisfire]

When you first said you didn't need a PTA it sounded like you were bragging...

The PTA process sounds a million times better - and - omg that fee!

I hope that review they are doing sorts that out for you.

[GLS_1956]

We don't have PTAs in WA

SO how would you acquire a new rifle, say if you went to the dealer tomorrow, picked out your next firearm...... what process, cost and time is involved.??

In Oklahoma, I can not say for any other state, it is done this way:

Go to your local gun store this include any store that has a gun department. Browse the selection of rifles, shotguns and handguns, ask to look/hold those that interest you, make your selection the gun type, style, caliber or gauge does not matter, unless you are under age 21, then no handguns. Fill out Federal Form 4473 and present your valid ID. The gun store, or department sales person, will now call the National Instant Background Check System who will with the information given, on form and ID, run a background check on you. This generally takes 5 to 10 minutes, the longest it has ever taken for me was 15 to 20 minutes but that was a weekend when they may have had fewer people working. When the check comes back clean, I've never had a hold or rejected, you pay your money for gun and if you're like me, ammunition too. Walk out to your car/truck and drive home. Oh yeah as I recall the FBI who run the background checks are required to destroy the records of those they've run the checks on after a specified period of time, I think it is 90 days.

So if America with around 300 million people can have an instant background check. You in Australia with around 24 million people should be able to have one too.

[Spudman75]

Go to your local gun store this include any store that has a gun department. Browse the selection of rifles, shotguns and handguns, ask to look/hold those that interest you, make your selection the gun type, style, caliber or gauge does not matter, unless you are under age 21, then no handguns. Fill out Federal Form 4473 and present your valid ID. The gun store, or department sales person, will now call the National Instant Background Check System who will with the information given, on form and ID, run a background check on you. This generally takes 5 to 10 minutes, the longest it has ever taken for me was 15 to 20 minutes but that was a weekend when they may have had fewer people working. When the check comes back clean, I've never had a hold or rejected, you pay your money for gun and if you're like me, ammunition too. Walk out to your car/truck and drive home. Oh yeah as I recall the FBI who run the background checks are required to destroy the records of those they've run the checks on after a specified period of time, I think it is 90 days.

So if America with around 300 million people can have an instant background check. You in Australia with around 24 million people should be able to have one too.

One of the big issues with the sales process is because there is a massive delay it gives you a chance to reconsider. For example if you are buying a new car (or motobike) the salesman will try everything in the book to keep you there and get you to commit to the sale. When we buy guns in Australia the salesman really has lots of hard work to do.

Firstly, he needs you to commit. But even if you put in a small deposit, you can always pullout since you have to wait at least 28 days for processing, even if you already have a same Category, you still have a massive wait. It is really bad from a sales perspective...

We need instant PTA's like the US. We are badly falling behind in the electronic age... but the Anti's love it since it follows their mantra of making as difficult and frustrating as possible.

[AnotherMisfire]

Many of the big dealers take a 20-25% of sale price "restocking fee" for just this reason.

To be honest, if they are doing that - if I was them - I would be praying the customer changed their mind.

That's a lot of money for one months storage.

[Redwood]

We need instant PTA's like the US. We are badly falling behind in the electronic age... but the Anti's love it since it follows their mantra of making as difficult and frustrating as possible.

Or at least Victoria where it can only be a few hours or a day.

[Stubbles McBeard]

To follow up on this, I received my pta back on Monday. I had rang firearms branch, and the lovely lady there let me know that the mandatory 28 day wait begins when they receive the application. The pta then goes into the pile to be processed.

[AusC]

Well that's one drop of common sense at least.

[AnotherMisfire]

My mate got approval here in Queensland saying his first PTA would be issued on a date 3 weeks in the future. So here it seems they assess it even in the 28 day period and mark it as "good to go" on day 29.