Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's growing

General conversation and chit chat - The place for non-shooting specific topics. Introduce yourself here.

Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's growing

Post by Die Judicii » 03 Jun 2021, 1:09 am

Yesterday I cut up and split a massive log of Ironbark for firewood.
This particular log was in excess of 1.3 meters diameter and just on 3 meters long.
The owner of the property from whence it came told me it has been laying on the rocky ground where I got it from for just over 50 years, that he recalls.
It was there when he was 20 years of age, and he has no idea as to when it was first cut down.

To my surprise, when cutting it into rings and then starting to split it, I found that the majority of the inner wood was still like a "green" tree.

Which made me think of even bigger sized logs of River Redgum that I had cut and split in Sth Aust that also showed similar degrees of maturity/ageing.

This in turn I find is yet again,,,, proof that mankind is burning (devouring) firewood far faster than it is actually growing, maturing, dying, and seasoning.

A sobering thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, where are we really heading to ????? :unknown: :unknown:
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
User avatar
Die Judicii
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2587
Queensland

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by No1_49er » 03 Jun 2021, 8:41 am

Awww. It's cold outside.
Chuck another log on the fire :sarcasm: :thumbsup:
Proud member of "the powerful gun lobby" of Australia :)
No1_49er
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 562
Queensland

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by No1Mk3 » 03 Jun 2021, 1:01 pm

No, in a "mankind" sense we're not, in most places sustainable plantation timber is sold for firewood only in enviromentally backward thinking countries like Australia is old growth timber still the majority. When the people in charge realize that only plantation timber will keep the industry alive it may be too late, I well recall growing up in NZ we used coal for the fire at home, then pine from what was then (may still be) the worlds largest man made forest, Kaingaroa, which also fed job creation rrural industries for forest management and harvest, building materials and pulp for export. We have the room, expertize and people to do that here but lack the political will to support the timber industry to transition to plantation in any serious way so we keep chipping our old growth to export to others so they can sell the pulped product back to us, Cheers.
No1Mk3
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1329
Victoria

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by Die Judicii » 03 Jun 2021, 2:13 pm

No1 Mk 3

Yeah Mate,, the plantation side of things is a given, which is why I didn't even mention it.
I was specifically referring to the native,, large,, age old,, slow growth timbers.
:friends:
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
User avatar
Die Judicii
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2587
Queensland

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jun 2021, 2:24 pm

We burn about one cubic meter of split wood per week during these months. A lot less when it's warmer, but our cooking, heating, and water heating is all done by the wood stove, so it still burns during summer. But Rose has also planted thousands of native seedlings just in the seven years we've been here - a lot of these are already well established. Bob put in conifers for wind breaks on the fence lines, but most of those are falling now, so Rose is replacing them with natives, like Strzlecki.

Rose's dad cut and sold firewood from these properties for many, many years, as a very profitable side business. A wild guess would be that we burn probably something like 20-tons of wood per year. Sounds like a lot, and when you're cutting, splitting and carting it every week, it is a lot. But we don't keep up with the trees that fall every year, and have neighbours come in to cut them up for their own use as well. About fifty-percent of our properties are natural bush though, fenced off from the cattle. We very rarely pull any wood out of there, preferring to leave it for the wildlife. But I can imagine some properties that have been farmed hard would struggle to produce enough wood for their own needs. We still have a lot of big trees that have fallen long ago, but for various reasons haven't been utilized yet.

People that source their firewood from other people are probably putting a dent in the overall usage I guess.


Die Judicii wrote:Yesterday I cut up and split a massive log of Ironbark for firewood.
This particular log was in excess of 1.3 meters diameter and just on 3 meters long.
The owner of the property from whence it came told me it has been laying on the rocky ground where I got it from for just over 50 years, that he recalls.
It was there when he was 20 years of age, and he has no idea as to when it was first cut down.

To my surprise, when cutting it into rings and then starting to split it, I found that the majority of the inner wood was still like a "green" tree.

Which made me think of even bigger sized logs of River Redgum that I had cut and split in Sth Aust that also showed similar degrees of maturity/ageing.

This in turn I find is yet again,,,, proof that mankind is burning (devouring) firewood far faster than it is actually growing, maturing, dying, and seasoning.

A sobering thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, where are we really heading to ????? :unknown: :unknown:
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
General
General
 
Posts: 7897
Victoria

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by Die Judicii » 03 Jun 2021, 9:17 pm

100_1737.JPG
100_1737.JPG (294.78 KiB) Viewed 619 times
100_1735.JPG
100_1735.JPG (338.18 KiB) Viewed 619 times
bladeracer wrote:We burn about one cubic meter of split wood per week during these months. A lot less when it's warmer, but our cooking, heating, and water heating is all done by the wood stove, so it still burns during summer. But Rose has also planted thousands of native seedlings just in the seven years we've been here - a lot of these are already well established. Bob put in conifers for wind breaks on the fence lines, but most of those are falling now, so Rose is replacing them with natives, like Strzlecki.

Rose's dad cut and sold firewood from these properties for many, many years, as a very profitable side business. A wild guess would be that we burn probably something like 20-tons of wood per year. Sounds like a lot, and when you're cutting, splitting and carting it every week, it is a lot. But we don't keep up with the trees that fall every year, and have neighbours come in to cut them up for their own use as well. About fifty-percent of our properties are natural bush though, fenced off from the cattle. We very rarely pull any wood out of there, preferring to leave it for the wildlife. But I can imagine some properties that have been farmed hard would struggle to produce enough wood for their own needs. We still have a lot of big trees that have fallen long ago, but for various reasons haven't been utilized yet.

People that source their firewood from other people are probably putting a dent in the overall usage I guess.


The redgum ring (in pic) is what I used to go through a lot of when living in SA
Nowadays I only need firewood for a short time each year on the nights that are frosty,, with clear days and warm temps.
Thankfully we are 100% solar for hot water.
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
User avatar
Die Judicii
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2587
Queensland

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by Sarco » 03 Jun 2021, 10:25 pm

I think a good start to conserving wood would be to ban wood burning fires in our capital cities where natural gas is readily available.

Even the best of slow combustion heaters are only marginally efficient and open fireplaces bordering on being a waste of wood.

Regardless though the alternatives are almost as bad, while much more efficient, they have their own issues.

Perhaps smaller houses, particularly in our cities, double glazing, properly insulated walls and ceilings would be a good start.
Sarco
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 171
Victoria

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 03 Jun 2021, 11:28 pm

Where I have built most people would burn through multiple tonnes of jarrah and whitegum varieties in a winter, I however dont have so much as an air conditioner or space heater, if people stopped building antiquated ****** for houses we wouldnt need to burn any of it.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by wanneroo » 04 Jun 2021, 12:54 am

Australian home construction is pretty shocking by American standards. I can't even believe the lack of insulation in buildings in Australia and you'd save yourself a bunch of freezing in the winter and burning up in the summer if homes were built properly.

If you use wood off of your property, I think it just comes down to some management, cull the old trees, plant new ones.

As it stands, the world has more trees than ever. China has planted a huge amount, the United States is heavily forested in places where it previously never was.
wanneroo
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 763
United States of America

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by duncan61 » 04 Jun 2021, 6:18 am

The small country town I lived in had a timber mill that used to cut and mill jarrah trees for construction purposes that stopped in the 70s and started using plantation timber.The company would allow locals to collect mill ends for fire wood.Going to get firewood was a social event and a whole bunk of us would go up the hills and cut down small standing Jarrah trees that were all ready dead.I do not know anyone who cut down green trees and I would take downed timber if it was off the ground as anything touching the ground would have small ants in it and they import fine sand and do in the chainsaw blade fast.ALCOA built an Aluminum refinery at Wagerup and strip mine the forest for Bauxite.When they are done the land is filled in and new forests are planted.This started in the early 80s and if you go where they have mined now it is pleasant forests with park benches where before it was prickly native scrub.Win for everyone.Like Blade the house I had at the time had a big oven with a wet back that I piped to a cylinder and it heated cooked and made hot water.
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
User avatar
duncan61
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1834
Western Australia

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by SCJ429 » 04 Jun 2021, 8:40 am

wanneroo wrote:As it stands, the world has more trees than ever. China has planted a huge amount, the United States is heavily forested in places where it previously never was.

I would love to see the study that came up with that conclusion.
SCJ429
Major
Major
 
Posts: 2846
New South Wales

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bah! » 04 Jun 2021, 9:03 am

SCJ429 wrote:
wanneroo wrote:As it stands, the world has more trees than ever. China has planted a huge amount, the United States is heavily forested in places where it previously never was.

I would love to see the study that came up with that conclusion.


Ditto. I mean the agricultural lands of WA would originally have been treed and in terms of our own lost forests. According to research done by Carnahan, forests have been reduced from 45% to 16% of australia, and then plantation figures are only in the 2,000,000Ha, so that means we're 125,000,000 - 2.000,000 = 123,000,000 short of even the same amount of tree cover
Attachments
woodgatetable.jpg
woodgatetable.jpg (129.67 KiB) Viewed 573 times
bah!
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 113
Western Australia

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by Gamerancher » 04 Jun 2021, 10:15 am

People have been burning wood since we stood upright and learned to use fire.
Agriculture always gets the blame in this country for "deforestation", granted, you need to clear land if you want to farm it.
But, considering 85% of the population lives within 50km of the coast, particularly the East coast, a lot of deforestation has also occurred due to urban sprawl.
What isn't considered is tree density, just land area. Clearing 1000 hectares of low scrub with the occasional tree >3m isn't taking out as much "forest" as a new 100 hectare housing development on the coast or building a kilometre of new freeway.
What is not realised is that "old growth" forest can be a net emitter of carbon, mainly due to decay, young plantation forests are the better carbon sink.
Despite the mis-information, we are planting more trees than we are cutting down.
Back on topic, the CSIRO determined that the use of firewood was the most carbon efficient method of home heating.
While not the actual study, this page does reference it if you are interested. https://www.wiseliving.com.au/firewood-sustainable
User avatar
Gamerancher
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1355
New South Wales

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 04 Jun 2021, 11:47 am

wanneroo wrote:Australian home construction is pretty shocking by American standards. I can't even believe the lack of insulation in buildings in Australia and you'd save yourself a bunch of freezing in the winter and burning up in the summer if homes were built properly.

If you use wood off of your property, I think it just comes down to some management, cull the old trees, plant new ones.

As it stands, the world has more trees than ever. China has planted a huge amount, the United States is heavily forested in places where it previously never was.


problem with using timber here, a lot of places at least is the sheer volume of termites, its really not comparable to anywhere else in the world, anyone who doesn't want noxious chemicals around has no say in the matter.

insulation is key, ask a big city builder and they will scoff and insult you if you tell them you dont want brick, ask a city builder if they think steel frame is a good idea they will scoff and insult you, My place is designed by me, built by me, endures over 40* in summer and below 0 in winter (Celsius obviously) and in winter sometimes I even need to crack a window cos it can get stuffy inside if me, the kids and others are all chilling in here doing whatever, especially when its time for the Sunday roast. the house is clad, and drywall interior, internal walls are R6 insulated and on the roof there is R4 below the tin, and ceiling is R8 rates as are the external walls, its not an expensive endeavor, I built the place for a fraction of the cost of a useless brick and tile place, and its way more energy efficient and I have massive open living spaces. (also no mortar, points or tile joints to worry about leaking as well as the 0 insulation factor under the tiles... anyone that still uses tiles... cmon wakey wakey its the 21st century)

Australia has a faster rate of growth than we have of deforestation, however it isnt ecologically in balance because the places losing habitat are not regaining it.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 04 Jun 2021, 11:52 am

Gamerancher wrote:People have been burning wood since we stood upright and learned to use fire.
Agriculture always gets the blame in this country for "deforestation", granted, you need to clear land if you want to farm it.
But, considering 85% of the population lives within 50km of the coast, particularly the East coast, a lot of deforestation has also occurred due to urban sprawl.
What isn't considered is tree density, just land area. Clearing 1000 hectares of low scrub with the occasional tree >3m isn't taking out as much "forest" as a new 100 hectare housing development on the coast or building a kilometre of new freeway.
What is not realised is that "old growth" forest can be a net emitter of carbon, mainly due to decay, young plantation forests are the better carbon sink.
Despite the mis-information, we are planting more trees than we are cutting down.
Back on topic, the CSIRO determined that the use of firewood was the most carbon efficient method of home heating.
While not the actual study, this page does reference it if you are interested. https://www.wiseliving.com.au/firewood-sustainable



yep almost all the cities in Australia have been selfishly built in places they should not have been, road and such should have been made from ports to inland/desert locations around the time of industrialization, masses of wonderful agricultural land and natural vegetation have been needlessly wasted all so some pompous twit can live near a beach or river that they visit twice a year.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by wanneroo » 04 Jun 2021, 11:56 am

SCJ429 wrote:
wanneroo wrote:As it stands, the world has more trees than ever. China has planted a huge amount, the United States is heavily forested in places where it previously never was.

I would love to see the study that came up with that conclusion.


Me too :lol:

I've read up on it in the past and seen some maps done of the forest cover over time, so the information is out there.

Interestingly when I used to live in New England(USA) in Connecticut, I lived in an old house built in 1710 or so. It still had the ancient ovens that were connected to the fireplaces and the foundation for a spring house, plus had two graves in the basement from the 1700s. It used to be a farm house and like all of southern New England, when they cleared the fields in the 1600s and 1700s, the soil was very rocky, so the dug up rocks were used to build fences, which still exist to this day everywhere. In particular this house I lived at, if you overflew it in a Cessna in winter you could see all the fields neatly laid out with the rock walls, the farming however long abandoned probably in the 19th century. The fields of course all filled in with trees now. In time New England became more industrial and people moved further west for cheaper farmland, farms became abandoned and reforested on their own. At one time in the 1700s and 1800s, southern New England was so barren of trees one could see for miles. These days you can't walk 10 feet without bumping into a tree and southern New England is heavily forested.

It's somewhat the same here where I live in Pennsylvania. The woods I live next to used to be a dairy grazing field, now it's wooded. In fact in this area from the 1800s to the 1920s they deforested the whole area up here for 150 miles, all the old growth timber pretty much cut down, the hills were barren. The lumber made a lot of people rich, the town of Williamsport was once one of the richest in the world in the mid 19th century. That all vanished when the woods were gone, the lumber barons sold the "worthless" land to the state of Pennsylvania for pennies an acre. Now it's a vast state forest, wooded of course. I ride my mountain bike on a 65 mile rail trail that used to be a lumber railroad and the towns that once serviced the railroad with lumber are now ghost towns with most buildings gone.
wanneroo
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 763
United States of America

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jun 2021, 12:16 pm

Apropos to this discussion, we lost dozens of trees in this storm. Lots of fences down, a big tree across the neighbour's driveway, lots of roof and wall sheets torn off the sheds.
Our water pump is under water again so I'll have wade out into the dam to recover it.
The creek is a very fast-flowing river today, also bringing down a lot of trees.
Hoping to get around all of the fence lines and sheds today to itemize everything that'll need addressing.
At least the rain and wind have stopped for now.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
General
General
 
Posts: 7897
Victoria

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bah! » 10 Jun 2021, 8:07 pm

That is often the way with clearing, and diseased trees here, the marri canker especially. After a big storm, older trees that grew with company, have none, and have to cop it on their own these days and drop a lot of limbs. Also the waterlogging causes them to be easier to uproot.
bah!
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 113
Western Australia

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by Downunder » 13 Jun 2021, 7:28 am

Global over population, the most effective way for those who have concerns about resources is to stop using them all.....
User avatar
Downunder
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 37
Victoria

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 13 Jun 2021, 9:18 pm

Downunder wrote:Global over population, the most effective way for those who have concerns about resources is to stop using them all.....



tend to agree, but not a fan of eugenics either, sadly its not even westerners that are mostly to blame, yes we get told we are the problem because of our consumerism, however our birth rates dictate that we are not the issue, india, china, southeast asia, africa and south america have a lot more to answer for than us, the poorest of people use the least efficient means, as they have the least fiscal means and efficiency means its costly. poorer overpopulated nations are far more to blame for the problems than those with neutral or negative birth rates, as for waste and rubbish, these are things we could engineer out, poorer nations havent really put too much effort into staving off their immense population growth (china aside with its one child policy, however their population still exploded).

as for those in the west who berate everyone else about these things, theyre usually hypocrites of the highest order. much like vegans are re- killing animals.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bah! » 14 Jun 2021, 11:57 pm

Rubbish as usual zaine.

It really doesn't matter how many people in underdeveloped nations use their meagre share of resources, when first worlders use all of a much larger "share".
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environm ... n-question.
Or are you playing devil's avocado again :D ?
bah!
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 113
Western Australia

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 15 Jun 2021, 12:22 am

bah! wrote:Rubbish as usual zaine.

It really doesn't matter how many people in underdeveloped nations use their meagre share of resources, when first worlders use all of a much larger "share".
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environm ... n-question.
Or are you playing devil's avocado again :D ?



off the mark nicely, try again

p.s. not clicking on anything vox, dont want to get a trojan or be constantly having to wipe my pc of its adware garbage. cheers.

p.p.s jokes but yeah not going to read anything from a unapologetically biased source like vox, or sky news or any other right or left wing propaganda page...

cheers.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by straightshooter » 15 Jun 2021, 8:28 am

This is dedicated to all our "true believers" and their green left handlers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1DWJQkOJew
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
“No nation can be freer than its most oppressed, richer than its poorest, or wiser than its most ignorant.” Henry George
straightshooter
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 745
New South Wales

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jun 2021, 10:53 am

Just been into Churchill, so, so many trees down along the roads, very sad.
But lots of locals cutting them up on the road side for firewood.
I meant to get a photo of the neighbour's driveway, they've cut a tunnel through the fallen tree to drive through :-)
Last edited by bladeracer on 15 Jun 2021, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
General
General
 
Posts: 7897
Victoria

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by cleger » 15 Jun 2021, 12:37 pm

wanneroo wrote:Interestingly when I used to live in New England(USA) in Connecticut, I lived in an old house built in 1710 or so. It still had the ancient ovens that were connected to the fireplaces and the foundation for a spring house, plus had two graves in the basement from the 1700s. It used to be a farm house and like all of southern New England, when they cleared the fields in the 1600s and 1700s, the soil was very rocky, so the dug up rocks were used to build fences, which still exist to this day everywhere.


Every word is true. It's true for northern New England and New York, as well. My house lot in New Hampshire is bounded on two sides by ancient stone walls. Shortly after I bought it, I nearly had a stroke when I got a call from the local cemetery guy who wanted to come inspect the graves in my cellar. Turns out they were in another cellar, further up the road. The ground freezes solid to a depth of 3 feet (about a meter) in winter around here, and that's how they did it if you died in winter until relatively recently.

Note that with the return of forests as wanneroo describes, anything beyond .30-30 becomes overkill, and scopes above about 2x become fairly useless, so watch out what you wish for. Farthest I ever shot at a deer was about 25 yards/meters. You can't ever really see them farther, unless they're in a field, where you're not hunting.

Houses in New England these days are 2x6 construction, with all exterior walls and roof fully insulated, double and now triple glazing, etc. Temperatures range from about -20 to 35 C, guaranteed, with a few days of more extreme weather thrown in, mostly on the colder side. I've never seen 40 C here, but I've seen -30. Lots of us burn wood. I used to do so myself. There's nothing critical about it here, but I think the fact that my area is so heavily forested is the reason. Can't burn it fast enough. It runs about U$250/cord delivered, which is 3.6 cubic meters.
User avatar
cleger
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 42
United States of America

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bah! » 15 Jun 2021, 2:24 pm

ZaineB wrote:
p.s. not clicking on anything vox, dont want to get a trojan or be constantly having to wipe my pc of its adware garbage. cheers.


Cool excuse for gutless behaviour
bah!
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 113
Western Australia

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 15 Jun 2021, 3:47 pm

bah! wrote:
ZaineB wrote:
p.s. not clicking on anything vox, dont want to get a trojan or be constantly having to wipe my pc of its adware garbage. cheers.


Cool excuse for gutless behaviour


mate if you think vox isnt a complete modern socialist thinktank then you are the problem.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by Bugman » 15 Jun 2021, 5:28 pm

Here we go again. Bah's attempting to hijack the post and making statements like "gutless behaviour" Hope the Mod's are watching this closely, as it will probably end in tears. DOH!
User avatar
Bugman
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 636
New South Wales

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by bah! » 15 Jun 2021, 8:28 pm

You don't have to socialist to work out that some brown people in a sandy ****** aren't using using up the world's resources, its 1st worlders, overwhelmingly. All you have to be is just not oblivious or stupid.
Bit rich saying I'm derailing the post when I'm responding to his bulls**t assertion and his childish excuse not to even face some data going against the same rubbish assertion.
bah!
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 113
Western Australia

Re: Hav u realized we are burning wood faster than it's grow

Post by ZaineB » 15 Jun 2021, 8:47 pm

bah! wrote:You don't have to socialist to work out that some brown people in a sandy ****** aren't using using up the world's resources, its 1st worlders, overwhelmingly. All you have to be is just not oblivious or stupid.
Bit rich saying I'm derailing the post when I'm responding to his bulls**t assertion and his childish excuse not to even face some data going against the same rubbish assertion.



yeah sure sure, you're like a guy that used to comment on here over a year ago, acting like he was gods gift to Asia, clearly having never been, who claimed that all the rubbish in Indonesian waterways was from shipping containers from Australia. The fact you haven't tried some futile attempt to water down the research that ruins your claims shows that without a doubt you have not stepped one inch outside your confirmation bias to see the bigger picture.

I and most others by the look of it are done with your trolling, have a good one

cheers.
ZaineB
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 314
Other

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Off topic - General conversation