Ukraine war

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Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Jul 2024, 9:29 am

Without getting into the back ground or politics. Hope it doesn't go pear shaped too quickly. :?

This has turned into a meat grinder. Russia is slooowly winning. But most of the western world is still assisting Ukraine. (not enough IMHO)

Lots of sabre rattling from Putin.
Arms still being given to Ukraine by the west.
Military around the world building up equipment and ammo.
Alliance's being formed by West and Russia.


I reckon this could escalate in a major way anytime.
Any opinions? :D
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Lazarus » 09 Jul 2024, 9:57 am

It's just one part of the prelude.

Covid was the first step, destabilise the west, by making libertarian western gummints act like totalitarians and piss off their populations.

Xi braids Putin's hair, strokes his ego and sends him into Ukraine.
This achieves 2 things, it chews up all Russia's modern tech, while at the same time reducing the west's strategic stockpiles, leave the spider in the middle of the web pre-eminent militarily.
All without china firing a shot.

Until they decide the time is right.

I'm no Clausewitz, but I can connect dots.

China is trying hard to kick things off with the Philippines "as we speak", right in the straits through which everything we've come to rely on is transported.

One of China's most potent weapons is our own complacency
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jul 2024, 10:07 am

Oldbloke wrote:Without getting into the back ground or politics. Hope it doesn't go pear shaped too quickly. :?

This has turned into a meat grinder. Russia is slooowly winning. But most of the western world is still assisting Ukraine. (not enough IMHO)

Lots of sabre rattling from Putin.
Arms still being given to Ukraine by the west.
Military around the world building up equipment and ammo.
Alliance's being formed by West and Russia.


I reckon this could escalate in a major way anytime.
Any opinions? :D


I can't help but wonder if the world would be in a much better position if the West had stayed out of it and they'd just had a six-week skirmish and gone on with their lives. NATO wouldn't have been happy though.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Lazarus » 09 Jul 2024, 10:39 am

Trouble with appeasment Blade, it only feeds their greed.

Moldova would be next, then the 'Stans.....
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Jul 2024, 10:41 am

.From another thread.

I agree with Churchill

"The Story of the human race is War. Except for brief and precarious interludes, there has never been peace in the world; and before history began, murderous strife was universal and unending.'"


Lazarus


Yes, and forgot to mention the China issue.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Jul 2024, 10:47 am

Lazarus wrote:Trouble with appeasment Blade, it only feeds their greed.

Moldova would be next, then the 'Stans.....


Agree.


At 6 about weeks Ukraine was kicking ass. But I get what your saying.
History suggests Laz is right.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 09 Jul 2024, 6:26 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Without getting into the back ground or politics. Hope it doesn't go pear shaped too quickly. :?

This has turned into a meat grinder. Russia is slooowly winning. But most of the western world is still assisting Ukraine. (not enough IMHO)

Lots of sabre rattling from Putin.
Arms still being given to Ukraine by the west.
Military around the world building up equipment and ammo.
Alliance's being formed by West and Russia.


I reckon this could escalate in a major way anytime.
Any opinions? :D


I can't help but wonder if the world would be in a much better position if the West had stayed out of it and they'd just had a six-week skirmish and gone on with their lives. NATO wouldn't have been happy though.


Germany was only going to supply helmets and blankets.
Ukraine top negotiator signed every page in Turkey but was then thrown in the bin after Boris Johnson intervened.
Trump was impeached on a phone call to Zelensky for withholding $1B in foreign aid until he knew where the money was being spent
Hunter Biden is on the board of Bursima paid 60K a month for zero knowledge of the gas business
Biden brags how he got the chief prosecutor looking into Bursima fired so he could release foreign aid
Putin is dying of something
Russia is losing

This is a cluster of the highest order egged on by the USA. It reminds me of Sosa warning Montana

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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mickb » 10 Jul 2024, 1:56 am

I have to play devils advocate here. I reckon about 20% of what we are told about the Ukraine war is correct. I was in Afghanistan 3 years contracting and that was also about the level of accuracy of news reports. In that particular farce we let the Taliban run around for 20 years, gradually handing the country back for the last 10. They could have cut that group out in the first year. The could have also killed the opium trade from Afghanistan but didnt. Taliabn to a degree can hide in caves, poppy fields cant they need sunlight. There are so many inconsistencies in whats going on the ukraine, it frustrates me too much to even read the news on it anymore.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 10 Jul 2024, 3:05 am

Correct you are Mickb. With a numerical artillery advantage of 10:1 , you think I'd believe the politicians, mainstream media experts that Russia is losing manpower at 7:1?
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 10 Jul 2024, 5:58 am

I see this morning Australia is tipping more military aid into Ukraine while every other country is trying to extradite itself from further aid as their economies are drowning.

Good on Australia, we were still in lockdown rying trying to eliminate the virus while the rest of the world moved on.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jul 2024, 7:52 am

The 7:1 was obviously BS.

But, don't believe either sides media. You need to question ALL reports.

I certainly don't believe "With a numerical artillery advantage of 10:1 , ". If that were true Russia would have defeated Ukraine within a few weeks.

Didn't happen.

Soooo,,, is it going to escalate in a major way?
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mickb » 10 Jul 2024, 10:38 am

Edited out :)
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 10 Jul 2024, 1:37 pm

Oldbloke wrote:The 7:1 was obviously BS.

But, don't believe either sides media. You need to question ALL reports.

I certainly don't believe "With a numerical artillery advantage of 10:1 , ". If that were true Russia would have defeated Ukraine within a few weeks.

Didn't happen.

Soooo,,, is it going to escalate in a major way?


I don't believe everything either they just want more money

https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/ ... reach-101/
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jul 2024, 1:46 pm

mchughcb wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:The 7:1 was obviously BS.

But, don't believe either sides media. You need to question ALL reports.

I certainly don't believe "With a numerical artillery advantage of 10:1 , ". If that were true Russia would have defeated Ukraine within a few weeks.

Didn't happen.

Soooo,,, is it going to escalate in a major way?


I don't believe everything either they just want more money

https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/ ... reach-101/



Well, during WWll the yanks gave UK zillions in arms even before they were dragged in to the war.

No different really. That's what mates do, help out.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 10 Jul 2024, 2:21 pm

Well you can it any way you like. The artillery advantage is between 5 and 10:1. The Rusdians are now dropping Fab 3000 and leveling whole multi story buildings where the Ukrainians are holed up.soon they are going to be flying F16s and will also be taken down.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jul 2024, 6:21 pm

[quote="mchughcb"]Well you can it any way you like. The artillery advantage is between 5 and 10:1. The Rusdians are now dropping Fab 3000 and leveling whole multi story buildings where the Ukrainians are holed up.soon they are going to be flying F16s and will also be taken down.[/quote]

5:1 sounds more realistic.

Sending missiles to flatten children's hospitals does seem, well, like murder.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 10 Jul 2024, 9:38 pm

Oldbloke wrote:[quote="mchughcb"]Well you can it any way you like. The artillery advantage is between 5 and 10:1. The Rusdians are now dropping Fab 3000 and leveling whole multi story buildings where the Ukrainians are holed up.soon they are going to be flying F16s and will also be taken down.[/quote]

5:1 sounds more realistic.

Sending missiles to flatten children's hospitals does seem, well, like murder.[/quote]


The Russians wouldn't target a children's hospital unless they are being fired on as there is no strategic or tactical value.

Im reading reports now it sounds like either Ukraine bombed their own building with an anti aircraft missile or it hit another missile which fell on the building. Their missiles and glide bombs are hitting with pin point accuracy and no doubt there are informers everywhere helping target buildings where the military is building up.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jul 2024, 9:59 pm

Sheesh. So, your saying Ukraine may have intentionly bombed its own childrens hospital.

What possible strategic advantage would that give Ukraine? :unknown:

I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

Couple of days ago Ukraine hit a large ammo storage facility. Russia said they would retaliate. Next day children's hospital gets bombed. Guess what I think.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jul 2024, 10:08 pm

Anyway,,,, could it escalate in a major way?
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by mchughcb » 10 Jul 2024, 11:16 pm

No that is not what I said. It can be their missile but not deliberate. Because anti aircraft missle has to land somewhere. ie the Ukrainian one that flew into Poland and killed 2 people on a tractor was immediately blamed on Russia hoping NATO would be dragged in.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by alexjones » 11 Jul 2024, 6:46 am

The first causality of war is the truth.

I 100% do not believe Russia would intentionally bomb a children's hospital. It is a public relations nightmare, has no military value and helps Ukraine by getting images of dead babies over western media TV screens. At the time when Ukraine is losing ground all over the front and is low on reserves.

It was either done by Ukraine or was an accident. Accidents happen all the time in war. Remember the dam buster raid in WW2? 600 allied POWs drowned when the dam burst.

The only time to deliberately destroy a children's hospital would be if it was harboring military assets. Like how HAMAS always hides in hospitals.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Lazarus » 11 Jul 2024, 7:51 am

alexjones wrote:The first causality of war is the truth.

I 100% do not believe Russia would intentionally bomb a children's hospital. It is a public relations nightmare, has no military value and helps Ukraine by getting images of dead babies over western media TV screens. At the time when Ukraine is losing ground all over the front and is low on reserves.

It was either done by Ukraine or was an accident. Accidents happen all the time in war. Remember the dam buster raid in WW2? 600 allied POWs drowned when the dam burst.

The only time to deliberately destroy a children's hospital would be if it was harboring military assets. Like how HAMAS always hides in hospitals.


Because they're otherwise such wonderfully kind and peaceful people?

Let's leave out the long history of brutality and stick to their crimes that have been independently proven to have been committed in Ukraine alone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime ... of_Ukraine

You quote "truth is the 1st casualty" then quote a blatant Israeli lie used to try to hide their own atrocious behaviour.
But then that does prove your assertion.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by alexjones » 11 Jul 2024, 7:58 am

The individual can be barbaric yet my comment was in regards to the collective of the high command who would of authorised the attack.

No way Putin said "Bomb children's hospital. That will look cool on the world stage".
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Jul 2024, 8:03 am

mchughcb wrote:No that is not what I said. It can be their missile but not deliberate. Because anti aircraft missle has to land somewhere. ie the Ukrainian one that flew into Poland and killed 2 people on a tractor was immediately blamed on Russia hoping NATO would be dragged in.


Accidental, mmmm, unlikely but possible.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Lazarus » 11 Jul 2024, 8:21 am

alexjones wrote:The individual can be barbaric yet my comment was in regards to the collective of the high command who would of authorised the attack.

No way Putin said "Bomb children's hospital. That will look cool on the world stage".



But alexjones, look at it from a neutral, clinical, point of view.
The Russians have been hitting apartment blocks, shopping malls, schools, and hospitals, since day one, with precision, guided, missiles

Now either their much vaunted "superior" missile technology isn't worth sh!t, something I do not believe for a second, they are all totally incompetent, something else I do not believe, or it's deliberate.

If it happened once, fair enough, fog of war, etc.
It hasn't, it's a daily occurance.

As to your last sentence, come ON.
Do you think a psychopath like Putin is concerned with his "cool" factor overseas.
Putin gets his tiny rocks off by terrorising people, what better way to send that message to the west.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Jul 2024, 8:22 am

"Because they're otherwise such wonderfully kind and peaceful people?"

To be fair the average Russian is likely no different to us.

It's Putin and the military mate.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Lazarus » 11 Jul 2024, 8:24 am

Oldbloke wrote:"Because they're otherwise such wonderfully kind and peaceful people?"

To be fair the average Russian is likely no different to us.

It's Putin and the military mate.


It's not Putin and the high command doing the raping and murdering of civilians, it's the "everyday" russian conscripts
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Jul 2024, 8:32 am

I think a great opportunity was lost when Yeltsin toppled Gorbachev. Gorbachev wanted to change their system to a democracy.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Jul 2024, 8:42 am

Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:"Because they're otherwise such wonderfully kind and peaceful people?"

To be fair the average Russian is likely no different to us.

It's Putin and the military mate.


It's not Putin and the high command doing the raping and murdering of civilians, it's the "everyday" russian conscripts


If the leadership was any good it wouldn't happen. I'd suggest it's actively encouraged.
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Re: Ukraine war

Post by Lazarus » 11 Jul 2024, 8:44 am

Come on OB, if we had a putin, do you see Australian troops behaving like that?
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