What we are breeding.

[Die Judicii]

This must have something in common with my other thread relating to milk.

Was in the line up to the checkout the other day in a supermarket.
To fill in time, I started checking out the various other people, both in the line up and walking the aisles.
Straight away, I thought "what the heck are we breeding" ?

Two middle aged women,,,,,, both grossly overweight to look at,, and the trolley contents backed that observation.

A young Mum,,,,, Also grossly overweight, with her child of approx 12 yo who was a perfect younger version of Mum already.

A youngish fella,,,,, (approx 28 yo) ,, Also overweight, dressed like a typical bogan, sucking on a McDonalds sugar fix drink,, extremely pale, like he's never been out in the sun shuffling his way along the aisle.

An older man,,,,, that showed all the signs of being a life long pen pusher just heading toward retirement,, with hands and finger nails that obviously had never done a day of hard work, and had never ever got dirt on them.

There were half a dozen others similar,,,,,,,,,, that I won't waste time describing.

Not a single one of these specimens could have fought their way out of a wet paper bag with the side ripped open if their life depended on it.

Oh my hairy aunt,,,,,,,,,,,, What are we breeding

[bigpete]

Apparently judgemental whiners

[deye243]

Apparently judgemental whiners

[Die Judicii]

Apparently judgemental whiners

Apparently "Bonjela" will help raw nerves.

[straightshooter]

Oh my hairy aunt,,,,,,,,,,,, What are we breeding

Voters

[NTSOG]

G'day,

Having worked in the welfare system and met all sorts of people I always found it difficult to smile at lazy fat sods who complained endlessly about how tough life was on welfare and who wouldn't follow any of the advice I gave them about their feral children because everything was too hard. Of course, for me to be visiting them they had had to make the request for assistance in the first place. In many cases such interventions were a total waste of taxpayers' money.

Frankly I and many of my colleagues considered such people shouldn't be allowed to breed. When you go into a private home and see Richard the Thirds on the living room floor you know you're entering a completely different world. Then you hear that 7-year-old daughter has been giving her 4-year-old brother a blow job in the bath. The mother protests that she didn't know where they learned such behaviour. However, since the mother was turning tricks for $10 a time in a local car park when she was 16 you know that Ma and Pa were humping each other in plain sight. Monkeys see, monkeys do! And so the cycle continues in the next generation.

Jim

[Die Judicii]

Gday NTSOG,
So sad to hear things like that, knowing that you have 1st hand experiences of such.

[wanneroo]

I'm all for helping people via government that are disfigured or disabled. But this stuff of giving fat bloated lazy people money to sit around and do nothing with their lives except get into trouble, doesn't help them and it doesn't help us.

[NTSOG]

G'day wanneroo,

Unfortunately, we cannot make 'fat bloated lazy people' change their ways. It's their Right to be the slobs they are.

Jim.

[Lazarus]

I'm all for helping people via government that are disfigured or disabled. But this stuff of giving fat bloated lazy people money to sit around and do nothing with their lives except get into trouble, doesn't help them and it doesn't help us.

I'm pretty sure all governments are "disfigured and disabled"

[straightshooter]

Nobody seems to have picked up on my earlier one word comment.
Of course there will be many deserving or contrary examples but in general there is no incentive or drive within these people to seek an improvement in their circumstances. They are in fact farmed voters who can be relied on, in general, to vote a particular way. Especially if there is circulated a suggestion of a diminution or loss of benefits if the vote goes the wrong way.

[Lazarus]

After WW2, Australia was a leader in a push for full employment and Australia boomed, people were getting a share.

I don't recall which government it was, I think it was a Labor mob, that decided that a deliberate policy of keeping a minimum pool of unemployed of ~5% would keep the profits in the hands of offshore capital, and keep wages suppressed.
There was also a campaign instigated to demonise the people thereby made jobless.

These people, who some choose to look down upon without knowing the slightest thing about their situation, aren't living the welfare "high life" by choice.

I wonder what we're breeding when I read what people will say to and about total strangers, via social media.

[NTSOG]

straightshooter: "there is no incentive or drive within these people to seek an improvement in their circumstances."

The psychologist Jordan Peterson reports that the US military will not accept recruits whose measured IQ is under 83 +/-. This is because such people are so limited intellectually the military has no use for them. They cannot find jobs which such people could perform correctly and safely. An IQ score of 85 is one standard deviation below the notional norm of 100. A person with an IQ around 70 is considered borderline intellectually disabled/mentally retarded. If highly structured military services cannot find jobs for those with IQs around 83-85 what meaningful employment opportunities are available for them in open society which is far less ordered and regimented? There is a whole class of people who may have been employable as day-labourers in the past doing simple and repetitive menial jobs like digging ditches, but, as society has become more sophisticated and employment more technically focused, what can these people do? Job opportunities for them are increasingly limited. Hence going on 'welfare' of some sort is attractive.

Jim

[Die Judicii]

It seems that my main point has been totally evaded, in the majority of replies so far.

I was never suggesting nor implying that these people were of low iq levels, unemployed, or lazy.

My point was,,,,,, that they appeared to be (as a result of their physical appearance) not fit, and therefore would have difficulty in fighting
their way out of a soggy wet paper bag with the side ripped open.

[NTSOG]

DJ: "My point was,,,,,, that they appeared to be (as a result of their physical appearance) not fit, and therefore would have difficulty in fighting their way out of a soggy wet paper bag with the side ripped open.'

"as a result of their physical appearance"

That went straight through to the keeper, but you're correct. We have taken on the US 'McDonald's diet and lifestyle'. Obesity is rampant due to too many calories in and few calories expended through physical work.

Jim

[Lazarus]

They're soggy, floppy, unfit and depressive because the people who insist they be unemployed, ie the gummint, also insist that they fulfil ridiculous "mutual obligations" looking for jobs that don't exist, and live, on a financial arse full of steam they call jobseeker.
Should be called Poverty Keeper.
Lots of sugary comfort food for the depressed at the supermarket

[Lazarus]

Oh my hairy aunt,,,,,,,,,,,, What are we breeding

Been giving these slovenly obese urbanites some thought, I think I have your answer: 'Mericans

[on_one_wheel]

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can.

[wanneroo]

G'day wanneroo,

Unfortunately, we cannot make 'fat bloated lazy people' change their ways. It's their Right to be the slobs they are.

Jim.

No we can't but we can stop paying them for it.

[wanneroo]

straightshooter: "there is no incentive or drive within these people to seek an improvement in their circumstances."

The psychologist Jordan Peterson reports that the US military will not accept recruits whose measured IQ is under 83 +/-. This is because such people are so limited intellectually the military has no use for them. They cannot find jobs which such people could perform correctly and safely. An IQ score of 85 is one standard deviation below the notional norm of 100. A person with an IQ around 70 is considered borderline intellectually disabled/mentally retarded. If highly structured military services cannot find jobs for those with IQs around 83-85 what meaningful employment opportunities are available for them in open society which is far less ordered and regimented? There is a whole class of people who may have been employable as day-labourers in the past doing simple and repetitive menial jobs like digging ditches, but, as society has become more sophisticated and employment more technically focused, what can these people do? Job opportunities for them are increasingly limited. Hence going on 'welfare' of some sort is attractive.

Jim

Having spent plenty of time pondering the world's problems and the cause, my personal conclusion at this moment in time is that low IQ is directly related to how poor people's lives are in that particular community.

If one looks at all the hellhole countries or cities in the world, typically they have a population with a very low IQ.

Recently with the Israeli and Gaza conflict I saw a study of 3000 young adults in Gaza that was done a few years ago by some British organization. Average IQ in Gaza is 67. Plenty of people were asking the question why after the Israeli's left almost 20 years ago why Gaza couldn't do what the Israeli's did with creating prosperity in the desert and the answer I believe is most of the Gazan population is retarded and has no chance. They are not smart enough to build their own prosperity, so they lash out at their neighbors. The elite Gazans who have a brain exploit all the little people and make sure the population stays retarded so they can continue the skim.

Most of Africa and the Middle East, the average IQ in many countries is below 70, which to me explains exactly what the issue is.

We see the elites in charge backing illegal immigration en masse from these areas and it's all deliberate. You can't control and exploit Western nations so well when the population is intelligent. Bring in tons of retarded people, cause chaos and societal decay, use that to gain power and control.

One thing I learned studying about IQ is that below 90 IQ people don't think any about long term consequences of their actions which results in them doing impulsive and unpredictable things, often harming others.

Give stupid people a wide berth.

[wanneroo]

DJ: "My point was,,,,,, that they appeared to be (as a result of their physical appearance) not fit, and therefore would have difficulty in fighting their way out of a soggy wet paper bag with the side ripped open.'

"as a result of their physical appearance"

That went straight through to the keeper, but you're correct. We have taken on the US 'McDonald's diet and lifestyle'. Obesity is rampant due to too many calories in and few calories expended through physical work.

Jim

Back in my high school there was literally one girl in school we considered "fat" who had a big butt.

These days you look at a graduating high school class here in the USA and there are already morbidly obese girls by the dozens.

Back then I don't think we did any crazy exercise or anything, just the usual sports perhaps.

But in that 30 years what changed was we got rid of lard and saturated fats and sugar and went to heavily to corn syrup, trans fats, artificial sweeteners and all sorts of chemicals and endocrine disruptors in foods.

[Lazarus]

straightshooter: "there is no incentive or drive within these people to seek an improvement in their circumstances."

The psychologist Jordan Peterson reports that the US military will not accept recruits whose measured IQ is under 83 +/-. This is because such people are so limited intellectually the military has no use for them. They cannot find jobs which such people could perform correctly and safely. An IQ score of 85 is one standard deviation below the notional norm of 100. A person with an IQ around 70 is considered borderline intellectually disabled/mentally retarded. If highly structured military services cannot find jobs for those with IQs around 83-85 what meaningful employment opportunities are available for them in open society which is far less ordered and regimented? There is a whole class of people who may have been employable as day-labourers in the past doing simple and repetitive menial jobs like digging ditches, but, as society has become more sophisticated and employment more technically focused, what can these people do? Job opportunities for them are increasingly limited. Hence going on 'welfare' of some sort is attractive.

Jim

Having spent plenty of time pondering the world's problems and the cause, my personal conclusion at this moment in time is that low IQ is directly related to how poor people's lives are in that particular community.

If one looks at all the hellhole countries or cities in the world, typically they have a population with a very low IQ.

Recently with the Israeli and Gaza conflict I saw a study of 3000 young adults in Gaza that was done a few years ago by some British organization. Average IQ in Gaza is 67. Plenty of people were asking the question why after the Israeli's left almost 20 years ago why Gaza couldn't do what the Israeli's did with creating prosperity in the desert and the answer I believe is most of the Gazan population is retarded and has no chance. They are not smart enough to build their own prosperity, so they lash out at their neighbors. The elite Gazans who have a brain exploit all the little people and make sure the population stays retarded so they can continue the skim.

Most of Africa and the Middle East, the average IQ in many countries is below 70, which to me explains exactly what the issue is.
We see the elites in charge backing illegal immigration en masse from these areas and it's all deliberate. You can't control and exploit Western nations so well when the population is intelligent. Bring in tons of retarded people, cause chaos and societal decay, use that to gain power and control.

One thing I learned studying about IQ is that below 90 IQ people don't think any about long term consequences of their actions which results in them doing impulsive and unpredictable things, often harming others.

Give stupid people a wide berth.

The average IQ in Gaza is 83.4
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289614001093

The reason that the Palestinians haven't "prospered like the Israelis" is not that they are retarded as you crassly infer, it's because of the blockade by the Israelis.
The Gazans have been imprisoned for decades.

American average IQ at 97 is only a few points above the Gazan average.

[NTSOG]

G'day Lazarus,

Yes there is Nature and then Nurture. In deprived settings lacking stimulation a child of potentially high intelligence may never achieve that intelligence. Many years ago, I did some work in early intervention. One of the children who was under the care of Child Protection Services had been born completely normal but had been kept locked in her crib for most of her life. Her parents weren't too smart by all accounts. She was fed and kept clean, but her parents otherwise neglected her. When I met her she was quite retarded in development in consequence of the neglect she suffered. I don't know how she developed in later life, but she was always going to be behind in development.

As for Gazans being 'imprisoned' who controls Gaza? Is it Israel or Hamas? [I note that there are many citizens of Israel who are Arabs.] Perhaps if Hamas spent the $ millions they use to buy weapons and build tunnels in services such as schools for the Gazans [both boys and girls] their situation would not be so dire. Given the amount of weaponry that Hamas has been using the so-called Israeli blockade hasn't been too effective.

Jim

[Lazarus]

G'day Jim

The question of nature vs nurture as an influence in physiological development has always fascinated me.

What you say about affluence vs poverty is spot on.
We see it plainly with the divide between haves and have nots in our own schools.

As to Gaza, the Palestinian people elected the now exiled Palestinian Authority.
Hamas took over by force.
Before hamas' suicidal attack on Israeli civilians, they were deeply unpopular with the Palestinian people, because they would pull up in front of some random house, fire off a few rockets, and bugger off.
The Israelis backtrack the rocket to it's launch point and go in with dozers and knock down the surrounding houses.

Now though, the textbook Israeli overreaction and disproportionate military response has, according to the latest reports raised approval for hamas to close to 90%.

The money spent on weapons is a valid point, however the Israeli blockade means that even things like toothpaste, or basic medical supplies are scarce, making what can be smuggled in unaffordable.
The crux of the whole thing though Jim, is there would be no need for weapons, or a resistance, if they weren't under armed occupation by Israel and suffering the constant encroachment by illegal Israeli settlements from the far right ultra orthodox.

Carpet bombing civilians didn't work in WW2, didn't work in Korea, in Vietnam, Cambodia, all it does is turn the survivors into dedicated enemies.



https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/g ... -june-2022

[NTSOG]

Lazarus: "The question of nature vs nurture as an influence in physiological development has always fascinated me."

Did you mean psychological or physiological development. One term pertains to the mind, the other to the body.

Jim

[Lazarus]

Lazarus: "The question of nature vs nurture as an influence in physiological development has always fascinated me."

Did you mean psychological or physiological development. One term pertains to the mind, the other to the body.

Jim

Bloody hell Jim.

Another thing fascinetes me, how I can look at something and not see it, I do it in supermarkets, just did it here, twice

Yes mate, I did mean psychology.
New resolution, no more auto complete

[NTSOG]

G'day Lazarus,

"how I can look at something and not see it ...?"

Welcome to the club. It's often the case with we males as we tend to focus more narrowly than women.

Getting back to IQ scores. IQ is not fixed according to psychologists. In the early days of IQ resting in C20 it was thought that IQ was fixed, but one's IQ as tested can be affected by all sorts of factors, even having a bad head cold on the day a person is tested. Cultural background is a factor: the US immigration service used IQ testing on Ellis Island to see if people were suitable to earn permission to enter the USA. The problem was that a test designed for US citizens whose primary language is English was not a fair test of someone who came from the backwoods of Siberia and spoke some Russian dialect. When I went to the USA to study for my MSc, I was required to take the Miller's Analogy Test: "a standardized test used ... for graduate school admissions in the United States". The test aims to measure an individual's logical and analytical reasoning. After I sat for the test, I explained to the test administrator that there were a number of items on the test that presumed a knowledge of US history which I had never studied. The administrator did not include those test items in my score. Those items on that test were culturally biased against me.

Intelligence is affected by many variables not just economic. Any of us could be rendered brain injured by a sudden whack on the head. Being poor does not directly make a person of low intelligence. Rather impoverished circumstances may limit his/her opportunity to develop to the maximum potential. Being very intelligent in an academic sense does not necessarily make a person smart in practice. I know some pretty stupid smart people.

Jim

Jim

[Jorlcrin]

Obesity is a complex beast, and dealing with it will likely take generations to address.
I think we need to start with children, and drum into them that obesity is as dangerous long-term as smoking and/or excessive drinking.
Diet and exercise/activity are key to that, but how you convince them to ditch the high-sugar/fat diet and phone/gaming console in this age, I have no idea.

I did weight-loss surgery in 2017, before a vascular surgeon would fix a blood-plumbing defect I was born with( that was trying hard to kill me).
Plumbing defect had been unknown my whole 50 years of life, but turns out is quite common(May-Thurner Syndrome).
I'm pretty sure the problem snowballed as a result of my excessive weight, and poor health at the time it first appeared in the form of a massive blood-clot in my left leg(2014).
Vasc. Surgeon said it wasnt worth his time if I didnt get the weight off first, and he strongly doubted I would keep it off through diet alone.
And the fact was; he was exactly right.
So, I went under the knife, and had stomach sleeve surgery, where they removed 80% of my stomach.
And I lost around 33%(58kgs) of my pre-surgery body weight.
My sleeve surgery resulted in me no longer feeling hunger; suspect they took that bit out.

But one of the catches, is that(according to the Bariatric surgeon) the largest nerve in the human body, is the one between the stomach and the brain.
And the brain can often tell me that I'm not eating enough, and routine can easily convince me that I need to eat, even if I dont need it.
This is easy to control in the paddock, or out on the run, or in the shed, but it's a bugger to control when you are in close proximity to the fridge..
So, DESPITE having a stomach that is about 35% the size of original(they expand a bit afterwards), 5 years on, it's still possible to eat more than I should.
I can still gain weight if I dont pay attention to my diet.
And if I'm preoccupied(like POXED office work), autopilot will tell me to raid the fridge..
In discussions with the Bariatric surgeon one time, I asked him if obesity is similar to a drug addiction, and he said that was about the best way to describe it.

My point is, that many of the middle-aged obese people I see out there(and I'm also horrified at how many there are), need a LOT of help to get back close to a healthy weight.
And most of them would kick me in the nuts before recognising that they actually NEED the help.
Many of them wont realise how many chronic health issues will vastly improve if they fix their weight.
I know I didnt...
In my case, chronic asthma, knees and hips failing, sleep apnoea and back issues, all faded into the background.
Their own stomach/brain will work against them to try to keep that weight on; my best description is a subconscious drive that says you are starving to death.
So, getting the youngest generation into the mindset that exercise and a healthy diet are key to a healthy life, would be a big step.
Yep; convincing them that days in front of the gaming console while eating endless packets of chips and guzzling Cola, ISNT good for their later years, is going to be a hard sell.

One of the most frustrating elements in this, is how government dont seem to want anything to do with subsidising weight-loss surgery, but are considering supporting a number of gender-reassignment/affirming procedures under Medicare.
Somewhat ironic that in these enlightened days, I get more support if I'm Trans and needing a Nip&Tuck to get everything looking perky, rather than helping a poor simple Fat-Phuk make it through their 50's.

My 2 cents.

[bigpete]

Obesity is a complex beast, and dealing with it will likely take generations to address.
I think we need to start with children, and drum into them that obesity is as dangerous long-term as smoking and/or excessive drinking.
Diet and exercise/activity are key to that, but how you convince them to ditch the high-sugar/fat diet and phone/gaming console in this age, I have no idea.

I did weight-loss surgery in 2017, before a vascular surgeon would fix a blood-plumbing defect I was born with( that was trying hard to kill me).
Plumbing defect had been unknown my whole 50 years of life, but turns out is quite common(May-Thurner Syndrome).
I'm pretty sure the problem snowballed as a result of my excessive weight, and poor health at the time it first appeared in the form of a massive blood-clot in my left leg(2014).
Vasc. Surgeon said it wasnt worth his time if I didnt get the weight off first, and he strongly doubted I would keep it off through diet alone.
And the fact was; he was exactly right.
So, I went under the knife, and had stomach sleeve surgery, where they removed 80% of my stomach.
And I lost around 33%(58kgs) of my pre-surgery body weight.
My sleeve surgery resulted in me no longer feeling hunger; suspect they took that bit out.

But one of the catches, is that(according to the Bariatric surgeon) the largest nerve in the human body, is the one between the stomach and the brain.
And the brain can often tell me that I'm not eating enough, and routine can easily convince me that I need to eat, even if I dont need it.
This is easy to control in the paddock, or out on the run, or in the shed, but it's a bugger to control when you are in close proximity to the fridge..
So, DESPITE having a stomach that is about 35% the size of original(they expand a bit afterwards), 5 years on, it's still possible to eat more than I should.
I can still gain weight if I dont pay attention to my diet.
And if I'm preoccupied(like POXED office work), autopilot will tell me to raid the fridge..
In discussions with the Bariatric surgeon one time, I asked him if obesity is similar to a drug addiction, and he said that was about the best way to describe it.

My point is, that many of the middle-aged obese people I see out there(and I'm also horrified at how many there are), need a LOT of help to get back close to a healthy weight.
And most of them would kick me in the nuts before recognising that they actually NEED the help.
Many of them wont realise how many chronic health issues will vastly improve if they fix their weight.
I know I didnt...
In my case, chronic asthma, knees and hips failing, sleep apnoea and back issues, all faded into the background.
Their own stomach/brain will work against them to try to keep that weight on; my best description is a subconscious drive that says you are starving to death.
So, getting the youngest generation into the mindset that exercise and a healthy diet are key to a healthy life, would be a big step.
Yep; convincing them that days in front of the gaming console while eating endless packets of chips and guzzling Cola, ISNT good for their later years, is going to be a hard sell.

One of the most frustrating elements in this, is how government dont seem to want anything to do with subsidising weight-loss surgery, but are considering supporting a number of gender-reassignment/affirming procedures under Medicare.
Somewhat ironic that in these enlightened days, I get more support if I'm Trans and needing a Nip&Tuck to get everything looking perky, rather than helping a poor simple Fat-Phuk make it through their 50's.

My 2 cents.

Here's someone who actually gets it

[Lazarus]

G'day Lazarus,

"how I can look at something and not see it ...?"

Welcome to the club. It's often the case with we males as we tend to focus more narrowly than women.

Getting back to IQ scores. IQ is not fixed according to psychologists. In the early days of IQ resting in C20 it was thought that IQ was fixed, but one's IQ as tested can be affected by all sorts of factors, even having a bad head cold on the day a person is tested. Cultural background is a factor: the US immigration service used IQ testing on Ellis Island to see if people were suitable to earn permission to enter the USA. The problem was that a test designed for US citizens whose primary language is English was not a fair test of someone who came from the backwoods of Siberia and spoke some Russian dialect. When I went to the USA to study for my MSc, I was required to take the Miller's Analogy Test: "a standardized test used ... for graduate school admissions in the United States". The test aims to measure an individual's logical and analytical reasoning. After I sat for the test, I explained to the test administrator that there were a number of items on the test that presumed a knowledge of US history which I had never studied. The administrator did not include those test items in my score. Those items on that test were culturally biased against me.

Intelligence is affected by many variables not just economic. Any of us could be rendered brain injured by a sudden whack on the head. Being poor does not directly make a person of low intelligence. Rather impoverished circumstances may limit his/her opportunity to develop to the maximum potential. Being very intelligent in an academic sense does not necessarily make a person smart in practice. I know some pretty stupid smart people.

Jim

Jim

I can vouch for that, I performed a high speed headbutt on a semi in the 90s, nowhere near as much fun as it sounds.
I received among many other bodily insults, a right frontal brain injury.
Extensive testing by the local BIU determined that, although my verbal IQ was unchanged, my performance IQ had dropped 10 points, due to information processing times.
Testing performed in 2021 determined that the gap had closed to 3 points.

What you mentioned about culture is very important.
The shallow thinker would imagine, as we see above, that half the world is "retarded" because they don't fit the stereotypical life of a westerner, showing an ignorance born of the arrogant belief that they sit at the centre of the universe.

A Kalahari Bushman might not do well on a Wechsler or a Stanford-Binet, but in his own milieu, he would be the genius and the arrogantly dismissive westerner would end up feeding the birds