Should Australia Go It Alone

[Valdash]

It's hard to say definitively what Australia will do. We often align with the US, but there's also a lot of support here for Ukraine, and a recognition of the broader implications of the conflict for international security.
Public opinion will probably play a role too.

[Oldbloke]

Russian hookers doing pee pee on the president on film. Somehow I just don't believe it.

Unless you witnessed this it is nothing but a rumour.

We have all witnessed the senseless loss of lives and waste of money that this conflict has claimed.
THANKS Albo, you dumb arse. You could have got us all killed.

Agreed. Zelensky is now talking about resigning.

You forgot to mention the important bit about NATO membership.

I wonder why.

[straightshooter]

As Churchill once said England does not have permanent friends only permanent interests.
So too with the US regardless of which puppet seems to be running things.
My view is that suddenly the US has come to the realization that as things stand the only way it can now achieve it's goal of containing China is by courting Russia as an ally and divorcing Russia from China as well as treating the EU as a burden rather than an asset.
Where does that position Australia in relation to our great protector the US.

Maybe this old ditty might enlighten

The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be,
Ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be,
The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be,
Many long years ago.
Many long years ago, many long years ago,
The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be,
Many long years ago.
The old gray mare, she kicked on the whiffletree,
Kicked on the whiffletree, kicked on the whiffletree,
The old gray mare, she kicked on the whiffletree,
Many long years ago.
Many long years ago, many long years ago,
The old gray mare, she kicked on the whiffletree,
Many long years ago.

[bigrich]

what a sad shadow of a country australia has become . we used to manufacture everything we needed in the 70's . electronics, cars, trucks , you name it we made it here . then along comes john howards free trade agreement ,removing tarrifs that protected our industry and in doing so our sovereignty, and over the years everything has gone offshore . skilled people have got old and retired and very few young ones have skilled up to take their place . we import everything these days, including our national security . where once america was our ally , now we're the skinny kid who looks to his big brother for protection . from what i've heard and been told our military is increasingly woke and being run by public servants in uniform who have no real idea of what the military is supposed to be. so much so this nation can't even field a well equipped competent fighting force let alone keep them in the service. inviting foreign nationals to join our military , cause we can't recruit enough of our own citizens . yeah, wow
petrol reserves and ammo would run out quick due to military funding being whittled down to SFA in recent times . instead of a sovereign Independant country, our supposed leaders have led us down a path of apathy and relying on the US to lead the way. will we ever see true leadership again ? i doubt it . as to australia going it alone , well that depends on whether separate issues are in OUR national interest . as to ukraine , the history is more complex than most people realize . ukraine probably should've ceded certain areas that are traditionally aligned with russia , and avoided invasion . putin on the other hand is trying to rebuild the glory days of the old USSR by bringing old comrades back into the fold . you could argue for and against indefinitely in this conflict , but russia sent military forces into sovereign ukraine territory. does anybody remember hitler annexing his neighbours on the grounds of historical and cultural significance, before invading poland ? it's a complex issue . trump pulling america out of being "world police" might have the benefit of making europe and australia stand on their own two feet instead of expecting america to solve their problems JMHO , agree or don't

[Oldbloke]

what a sad shadow of a country australia has become . we used to manufacture everything we needed in the 70's . electronics, cars, trucks , you name it we made it here . then along comes john howards free trade agreement ,removing tarrifs that protected our industry and in doing so our sovereignty, and over the years everything has gone offshore . skilled people have got old and retired and very few young ones have skilled up to take their place . we import everything these days, including our national security . where once america was our ally , now we're the skinny kid who looks to his big brother for protection (and licking their boots) from what i've heard and been told our military is increasingly woke and being run by public servants in uniform who have no real idea of what the military is supposed to be. so much so this nation can't even field a well equipped competent fighting force let alone keep them in the service. inviting foreign nationals to join our military , cause we can't recruit enough of our own citizens . yeah, wow
petrol reserves and ammo would run out quick due to military funding being whittled down to SFA in recent times . instead of a sovereign Independant country, our supposed leaders have led us down a path of apathy and relying on the US to lead the way. will we ever see true leadership again ? i doubt it . as to australia going it alone , well that depends on whether separate issues are in OUR national interest . as to ukraine , the history is more complex than most people realize . ukraine probably should've ceded certain areas that are traditionally aligned with russia , and avoided invasion . putin on the other hand is trying to rebuild the glory days of the old USSR by bringing old comrades back into the fold . you could argue for and against indefinitely in this conflict , but russia sent military forces into sovereign ukraine territory. does anybody remember hitler annexing his neighbours on the grounds of historical and cultural significance, before invading poland ? it's a complex issue . trump pulling america out of being "world police" might have the benefit of making europe and australia stand on their own two feet instead of expecting america to solve their problems JMHO , agree or don't

Pretty close to the mark with all of above. I just needed to make a small amendment mate.

[on_one_wheel]

I'd like to know what our government plans on doing about the enormous national debt they've accumulated,
$830,260,861,550
Back in 2000 it was 45 billion, now it's 830 billion... watching the debt clock, it's moving up at around one thousand dollars per second.
Perhaps they're just ignoring it and hoping for some kind of hard reset.

[mchughcb]

So Russia, USA and Israel voted no, China abstains.

Australia voted yes.

There you have it, Australia is now at war with Russia and USA. Albo really knows what he's doing.

https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4076672?ln=en

[Oldbloke]

So Russia, USA and Israel voted no, China abstains.

Australia voted yes.

There you have it, Australia is now at war with Russia and USA. Albo really knows what he's doing.


https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4076672?ln=en

Really! You conventionally forgot to mention the other 93 countries that voted the same as AU. Are they now at war with the US and Russia?

Only 17 countries voted with Russia.

Wake up to yourself.

I strongly suggest you ph 13 11 14 mate.

IMG_6765.jpeg (68.24 KiB) Viewed 1699 times

IMG_6765.jpeg (68.24 KiB) Viewed 1699 times

[bigrich]

So Russia, USA and Israel voted no, China abstains.

Australia voted yes.

There you have it, Australia is now at war with Russia and USA. Albo really knows what he's doing.

https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4076672?ln=en

so your against OUR country voting for peace ? you think the war should continue ? or is falling into line with the USA more important regardless of the issue ?
the title of this topic is "should australia go it alone" no we should not go it alone ,but what we should be doing is going back to being our own sovereign country , doing what's best for us when appropriate rather than automatically following the USA , or britain for that matter . i think voting for peace is appropriate .

i think albo is a soft c@ck but , his response to china navy sailing down to the east coast of australia for live fire exercises is a provocative intimidating action . can we all agree f@ck the communists ?

[straightshooter]

Really! You conventionally forgot to mention the other 93 countries that voted the same as AU. Are they now at war with the US and Russia?

Only 17 countries voted with Russia.

Wake up to yourself.

I strongly suggest you ph 13 11 14 mate.

Really! Really!
Like as if that vote means anything or will lead to anything or thus is something to get excited about.

[straightshooter]

i think albo is a soft c@ck but , his response to china navy sailing down to the east coast of australia for live fire exercises is a provocative intimidating action . can we all agree f@ck the communists ?

It's not that long ago that Australia played the role of dopey side kick to our 'great protector' in freedumb of navigation exercises off the China coast.
Purportedly in support of Taiwan.
FAFO

For those yet to enjoy the benefit of having their wetware updated, the world appears to be beginning a process of undergoing a range of strategic repositionings.
What was true yesterday might not be true tomorrow.
The only truly viable long term strategy for Australia is self reliance but for that to become a reality there will need to be a purge of foreign parasitic burdens on our economy.

[Oldbloke]

"Trump mining Co" will soon be mining Ukraine. And they won't pay any taxes.


Trump is going to need the best security he can get or he won't get to enjoy the huge profits from his "protection racket"

[bigrich]

i think albo is a soft c@ck but , his response to china navy sailing down to the east coast of australia for live fire exercises is a provocative intimidating action . can we all agree f@ck the communists ?

It's not that long ago that Australia played the role of dopey side kick to our 'great protector' in freedumb of navigation exercises off the China coast.
Purportedly in support of Taiwan.
FAFO

For those yet to enjoy the benefit of having their wetware updated, the world appears to be beginning a process of undergoing a range of strategic repositionings.
What was true yesterday might not be true tomorrow.
The only truly viable long term strategy for Australia is self reliance but for that to become a reality there will need to be a purge of foreign parasitic burdens on our economy.

i agree 100% . and your right in china flexing it's muscles of our coast as payback for participation in naval exercises in the china sea . as australia is the weakest of the navies in those exercises , i guess they think bullying us is OK . china seem to think "might is right" , and i wouldn't expect less from a commie regime

[bigrich]

"Trump mining Co" will soon be mining Ukraine. And they won't pay any taxes.


Trump is going to need the best security he can get or he won't get to enjoy the huge profits from his "protection racket"

imperial america has always exploited "friendships" with countries they give support too . trump is just more open about it . the spanish, french, british all had their turn on dominance. america since the early 1900's expanded their influence and empire . now china thinks it's time has come

trump puts doing what's best for america and americans ahead of international politics . clawing back military and financial aid through resource deals is a way of compensation i guess. the thing about trump is he's a business man , not a career politician . he sees and does things differently , right or wrong

trumps initiative to cutting government running costs , waste and rorting is a great idea. our government should take note , dunno if i'd want someone like musk in charge but . how many billions is australia giving away in aid overseas to "buy" friends and favor with foreign governments while people in this country are struggling . love him or hate him , the man has some good ideas

[mchughcb]

So Russia, USA and Israel voted no, China abstains.

Australia voted yes.

There you have it, Australia is now at war with Russia and USA. Albo really knows what he's doing.


https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4076672?ln=en

Really! You conventionally forgot to mention the other 93 countries that voted the same as AU. Are they now at war with the US and Russia?

Only 17 countries voted with Russia.

Wake up to yourself.

I strongly suggest you ph 13 11 14 mate.

IMG_6765.jpeg

IMG_6765.jpeg

Well there you have it. Old bloke now has posted Trump with a sickle. What's next pee pee ?

The more you keep posting the mental health crisis helpline the more you keep projecting.

[mchughcb]

Really! You conventionally forgot to mention the other 93 countries that voted the same as AU. Are they now at war with the US and Russia?

Only 17 countries voted with Russia.

Wake up to yourself.

I strongly suggest you ph 13 11 14 mate.

Really! Really!
Like as if that vote means anything or will lead to anything or thus is something to get excited about.

They couldn't give a rats what Australia thinks. Also what is interesting is neither of the countries I listed that voted no recognises the ICC.
You are correct. They couldn't give Fl

[on_one_wheel]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

[bigrich]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

[alexjones]

Nobody in the world gives a F what Australia thinks. Whilst we may think we are important in world events we are literally nothing in the grand scheme of things.

We are nothing but minerals and a strategic launching off point filled with a compliant slave like populous. No more, no less.

The American military budget is only slightly smaller than our entire economy. We were only 1% of general motors yearly sales when we had holden but to us holden was so big. We are nothing but a rounding error in a global world. Thats the reality.

[on_one_wheel]

Nobody in the world gives a F what Australia thinks. Whilst we may think we are important in world events we are literally nothing in the grand scheme of things.

We are nothing but minerals and a strategic launching off point filled with a compliant slave like populous. No more, no less.

The American military budget is only slightly smaller than our entire economy. We were only 1% of general motors yearly sales when we had holden but to us holden was so big. We are nothing but a rounding error in a global world. Thats the reality.

We have a whole two things America likes, one of which they own.
A great place to park hardware at Darwin and a good set of ears at Pine Gap

[bigrich]

Nobody in the world gives a F what Australia thinks. Whilst we may think we are important in world events we are literally nothing in the grand scheme of things.

We are nothing but minerals and a strategic launching off point filled with a compliant slave like populous. No more, no less.

The American military budget is only slightly smaller than our entire economy. We were only 1% of general motors yearly sales when we had holden but to us holden was so big. We are nothing but a rounding error in a global world. Thats the reality.

We have a whole two things America likes, one of which they own.
A great place to park hardware at Darwin and a good set of ears at Pine Gap

people tend to forget about pine gap these days . i reckon the majority of the younger generation don't even know about it these days

[Oldbloke]

Pine gap was just the first. There is more

[alexjones]

You lads think this is from those Chinese ships?

https://youtu.be/n6Rf03pYrv4?si=pbtayBNkud4_w4At

[stihl88]

Looks like one of our MK 54 lightweight torpedos, straight to the pool room!

[Oldbloke]

Was just on the new. AU Navy training torpedo. Lost a few months ago.

Would look good in the man cave.

[alexjones]

Was just on the new. AU Navy training torpedo. Lost a few months ago.

Would look good in the man cave.

Coincidence in regards to the timing.

[on_one_wheel]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

I reckon a smart move would be to not overreact over China doing something that every other navy does within international law, we should take the moral high ground and invite them into port for a visit instead of trying to escalate tensions.

[Oldbloke]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

I reckon a smart move would be to not overreact over China doing something that every other navy does within international law,

we should take the moral high ground and invite them into port for a visit instead of trying to escalate tensions.

Agree with that bit.

[bigrich]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

I reckon a smart move would be to not overreact over China doing something that every other navy does within international law, we should take the moral high ground and invite them into port for a visit instead of trying to escalate tensions.

about 20 years ago a chinese naval ship visited brisbane . the public wasn't allowed anywhere near it and chinese military stood guard on the dock with ak47's. i think that's the only time i've heard of a visiting navy ship being guarded on our soil by visiting foreign troops with automatic weapons . in brisbane for god's sake ! the media made a big deal out of it and it put rudd in a awkward position as he was very pro china back then . Chinese military like playing the bully boy . "tell 'em to go get stuffed...." i reckon

[Wapiti]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

I reckon a smart move would be to not overreact over China doing something that every other navy does within international law,

we should take the moral high ground and invite them into port for a visit instead of trying to escalate tensions.

Agree with that bit.

FFS, read "The Art Of War" by Sun-Tzu.
This will only help you if you have the ability to understand it however and see it happening here in the real world.
Completely wrong and why we are being disrespected by the Chinese. And in fact, anyone else off our shores manipulating us through our pathetic "politicians". And some of you just are fooled by anything, respectfully.

The Chinese are hell bent on controlling the South Pacific, and in dominating the world. Financially as well as by force.
Trying the soft touch and trying to play that "long game" in manipulating them in turn, is for the foolish.
They only respect strength and pushback.
They will NEVER be fooled by the weakling approach.


That's exactly like the schoolboy being constantly being picked on by bullies in the playground.
He's told to ask them to first stop, then explain to them they are hurting him, and that they should stop. Maybe even try and be friendly with them to get their respect.
In fact. it doesn't give them respect, it makes YOU WEAK, and they have you beaten right there.
In the contrary, if you told your schoolboy son that, the next time they do it, he tells them firmly to stop and never hassle him again. If the biggest one does not do that, then he smashes the bully as hard as he can in the middle of his face, and when he stumbles back, kick him in the nuts.
Watch what happens after that.
Disregard the detention and Dad being summoned up to the school principal for explanation. Don't ask me how I know this. But the bulling stopped forever.