Liberty Tree

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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Ziad » 28 Dec 2018, 11:49 am

I for one would say, in some parts we are better in some parts we are worse, big Scott summarized it quite well. Yes they have better firearms, but them minimum wage is 7 bucks (or about there). It might be the land of the free....but it the same country that can abduct and detain you indefinitely without trial (ok they are coming very close to that in Australia as well). Anyway apart from the government and beaurocracy Australia is still one of the best countries to live in... yes I have lived in a few
Blame it on the phone auto correct
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Die Judicii » 28 Dec 2018, 12:54 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
It's an overrated ****** as far as I'm concerned and it's got me f***ed why the world revolves around it to be honest, it's a cesspit for arseholes and nutjobs as far as I can tell. :unknown: :drinks:


I can't comment on the US of A seeing as I've never been there,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
But,,,,,,, Way to go Big Fellah,, don't pull any punches Mate, I'm not too sure if you'll win many friends from USA.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Stoney » 28 Dec 2018, 8:02 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Stoney wrote:
Wombat wrote:Lucky in some ways, not in others. We are better off in almost every way except firearms laws. Australia is the only country in the world where there is a greater number of US migrants than our citizens migrating there.



Got any hard evidence of that mate? Have you ever lived in America? I have.


We've got better Beer.
We can spotlight
We can hunt Deer all year round
We can hunt all year round
No Tags for anything and everything ya shoot
Better Medicare System
Better Food (ie meat that isn't force fed that grain crap they give em over there)
Ya don't get shot at every five mines over here (joking)
Better job security etc
Better Welfare System
And probably a heap more reasons too. :D

It's an overrated ****** as far as I'm concerned and it's got me f***ed why the world revolves around it to be honest, it's a cesspit for arseholes and nutjobs as far as I can tell. :unknown: :drinks:


Now, now bigfella. :D I lived over there dairy farming and the country folk were some of the most generous, warm hearted people I have met. Not all of them are as they would say " assholes " :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Patriot » 28 Dec 2018, 9:58 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Stoney wrote:
Wombat wrote:Lucky in some ways, not in others. We are better off in almost every way except firearms laws. Australia is the only country in the world where there is a greater number of US migrants than our citizens migrating there.



Got any hard evidence of that mate? Have you ever lived in America? I have.


We've got better Beer.
We can spotlight
We can hunt Deer all year round
We can hunt all year round
No Tags for anything and everything ya shoot
Better Medicare System
Better Food (ie meat that isn't force fed that grain crap they give em over there)
Ya don't get shot at every five mines over here (joking)
Better job security etc
Better Welfare System
And probably a heap more reasons too. :D

It's an overrated ****** as far as I'm concerned and it's got me f***ed why the world revolves around it to be honest, it's a cesspit for arseholes and nutjobs as far as I can tell. :unknown: :drinks:

The USA has the following....nothing else to be said

First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Third Amendment

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

Seventh Amendment

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of common law.

Eighth Amendment

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Wombat » 28 Dec 2018, 10:08 pm

Patriot wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Stoney wrote:
Wombat wrote:Lucky in some ways, not in others. We are better off in almost every way except firearms laws. Australia is the only country in the world where there is a greater number of US migrants than our citizens migrating there.



Got any hard evidence of that mate? Have you ever lived in America? I have.


We've got better Beer.
We can spotlight
We can hunt Deer all year round
We can hunt all year round
No Tags for anything and everything ya shoot
Better Medicare System
Better Food (ie meat that isn't force fed that grain crap they give em over there)
Ya don't get shot at every five mines over here (joking)
Better job security etc
Better Welfare System
And probably a heap more reasons too. :D

It's an overrated ****** as far as I'm concerned and it's got me f***ed why the world revolves around it to be honest, it's a cesspit for arseholes and nutjobs as far as I can tell. :unknown: :drinks:

The USA has the following....nothing else to be said

First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Third Amendment

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

Seventh Amendment

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of common law.

Eighth Amendment

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


So one can assume you have a thorough knowledge of the Australian Constitution and have read applicable state law- care to point out where the American versions are better?
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Wombat » 28 Dec 2018, 10:12 pm

One thing to remember about amendments, its where they realised they f***ed up and needed to change things. 19th anyone?
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Patriot » 28 Dec 2018, 10:38 pm

Wombat wrote:
Patriot wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Stoney wrote:
Wombat wrote:Lucky in some ways, not in others. We are better off in almost every way except firearms laws. Australia is the only country in the world where there is a greater number of US migrants than our citizens migrating there.



Got any hard evidence of that mate? Have you ever lived in America? I have.


We've got better Beer.
We can spotlight
We can hunt Deer all year round
We can hunt all year round
No Tags for anything and everything ya shoot
Better Medicare System
Better Food (ie meat that isn't force fed that grain crap they give em over there)
Ya don't get shot at every five mines over here (joking)
Better job security etc
Better Welfare System
And probably a heap more reasons too. :D

It's an overrated ****** as far as I'm concerned and it's got me f***ed why the world revolves around it to be honest, it's a cesspit for arseholes and nutjobs as far as I can tell. :unknown: :drinks:

The USA has the following....nothing else to be said

First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Third Amendment

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

Seventh Amendment

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of common law.

Eighth Amendment

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


So one can assume you have a thorough knowledge of the Australian Constitution and have read applicable state law- care to point out where the American versions are better?


Yes mate have read our constitution many times but of course I am no expert, But bar some protections such as having property acquired on just terms and freedom of religion we have no protected rights, basic rights such as those listed above can and have been infringed by state and federal legislatures if these rights were in the constitution they could only be changed as per section 128 of the constitution, that is directly by the people. As for applicable state laws they, can be changed by state parliaments at any time.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Wombat » 28 Dec 2018, 10:53 pm

No laws are written in stone.You have not given a single example of where the US laws/constitution are currently better than ours.Amendments are an example of where the constitution has been altered, just like state laws can be altered.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Patriot » 28 Dec 2018, 11:40 pm

Wombat wrote:No laws are written in stone.You have not given a single example of where the US laws/constitution are currently better than ours.Amendments are an example of where the constitution has been altered, just like state laws can be altered.


Yes mate you’re right no laws are written in stone, but constitutions are much much harder to alter.In Australia’s case an amendment must first pass the parliament then gain a double majority in the electorate i.e. a majority of voters in a majority of states.Since federation Australia has had 19 referendums with 44 questions asked,only 8 have been approved by the people.In the US the process is outlined in Article 5 of the constitution and is also quite onerous,it has been amended 27 times the first ten were in 1789,and it has only been amended 10 times in the last 100 hundred years. So, where are the US laws/constitution better than ours?

The US constitution relies less on “convention” then ours and defines the role of the federal government more clearly,our constitution doesn’t even mention the Prime minister or cabinet yet they are basically the executive government.

The first ten amendments to the US constitution are considered the bill of rights which is what I originally posted,these are protections for the the individual citizens from the government. Australian citizens have no one such constitutional protections. There are some protections through laws passed through the parliaments across Australia but these can be altered by the governments of the day without seeking the approval of the electorate.I believe the US bill of rights are much better than anything we have here as the are constitutionally protected.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Ziad » 29 Dec 2018, 12:31 am

Mate sorry to antagonize you.... and words used by someone more a dick than me,

If you like it that much went don't you go there (unless you are already there)

Hmm, if you ask a black american or a minority how does 4th amendment treat them. Or lately so called terrorist, who are abducted and detained without any courts permission or even allow to see a lawyer.

Maybe you go check out unitary executive theory, where a president can do whatever he wants to, with no oversight of the constitution, law, or democratically elected representatives of the people. Yes that also have given rise to allowing the government to spy on their own people without their permission and/or knowledge.

Ohh wait I am the evil member of the fun police
Blame it on the phone auto correct
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Dec 2018, 12:38 am

Although the bill of rights was written in the “stone age” and could not have pre meditated the Internet, population explosions or even the rapid development of automatic weapons - in my opinion it affords the ppl basic protections that we Aussies just don’t have...in fact, our individual rights are being eroded constantly...just look at the anti association laws(where by people are pre judged and declared criminals for wearing the same clothes as friends/colleagues)...they would have a field day with those in the USA...but no country has it perfect.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by wanneroo » 29 Dec 2018, 1:43 am

Well there are some expensive mil surps out there now in the USA, but yes a lot of the standard stuff will go for $250-$800.

I have a Curio and Relic FFL which allows me to buy firearms over 50 years old directly from other C&R FFLs and FFLs without a background check and have it shipped directly to me which saves time and money.

The "good ole days" of surplus though are gone. Up until the 1990's there was a significant flood of WW1, WW2 and Cold War arms into the USA. But now thanks to the UN, countries like France and Norway destroy their old stockpiles rather sell them. We still get some small trickles here and there like Mosin Nagants from Ukraine, Swiss rifles from Switzerland and recently M1 Garands from the Philippines. But the party is over in terms of plentiful supply and dirt cheap prices.

In terms of modern surplus semi auto or full auto rifles, due to various bans over the past 50 years, these rifles have to get their receivers and barrels saw cut to be imported. So there is a little industry of sellers selling "parts kits" which you can then use to help you assemble a facsimile of such rifle with a legal US built receiver, barrel and other parts. Recently there has been a lot of Israeli FAL and Galil parts kits imported for instance, so you can take those and using a US made Galil or FAL receiver and barrel, you can make your own Galil or FAL.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by wanneroo » 29 Dec 2018, 1:51 am

I'd imagine we could debate the ins and outs of the USA in another thread.

One thing Aussies do not understand is the Bill of Rights are inalienable rights. The founding fathers were well studied and educated people, they knew history and they believed human beings had inalienable rights, not rights gifted from government, but from above and that these were basic ingrained rights humans should have and that could not be taken away. Reading the 9th and 10th Amendment might help people get the complete picture.

The US has always been a bit different from countries like Canada and Australia in that we fought for total separation from the Brits and that we are not subjects to the Queen but rather citizens instead.
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Re: Liberty Tree

Post by Patriot » 29 Dec 2018, 8:07 am

Ziad wrote:Mate sorry to antagonize you.... and words used by someone more a dick than me,

If you like it that much went don't you go there (unless you are already there)

Hmm, if you ask a black american or a minority how does 4th amendment treat them. Or lately so called terrorist, who are abducted and detained without any courts permission or even allow to see a lawyer.

Maybe you go check out unitary executive theory, where a president can do whatever he wants to, with no oversight of the constitution, law, or democratically elected representatives of the people. Yes that also have given rise to allowing the government to spy on their own people without their permission and/or knowledge.

Ohh wait I am the evil member of the fun police


No need to apologise mate, you haven’t antagonised me.
I agree,the rights do get trampled on,governments will do it every chance they get,if the people allow them to. I also agree that the executive does act unconstitutionally at times with “executive orders”.

As for you being a member of the fun police, I can’t comment.... I hope you’re not
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