Putting new handles on old knives etc...

[tom604]

Gwion and Ecobogan have the right idea,drill it through, a bit of fiddly file work and two part epoxy and your good to go, getting it hot helps work out where you have to chip/drill to get the tang to fit, make your bolsters and sand your handle down to fit last,a bit of oil and your good to go. its quite that easy but also not that hard just go slow and steady and you want the tangs fit to be snug

[Stix]

So guys...
Ive been busy selecting & cutting some wood (from the fire wood pile ) for this handle.
But have a couple more questions...

The handle that came off it i rekon is actually bone, not timber, but its all split to buggery so im going wood.... (i will keep the bone handle that came off it--im not sure its original though).

Anyway, questions...
Will Devcon (epoxy used for bedding rifles) be a suitable "glue" for this project...(suitable for gluing wood handle to steel.?

Also, you guys have suggested to peen the end of the tang to stop the handle sliding/aiding to lock it in place...so how do i heat the steel sufficiently enough to re-shape the steel tang & not incinerate the wood handle that will be on it...?

Sorry if thats a stupid question, but i only ever grind steel & cut wood...

If interested, below is a vouple of pics of wood ive selected & sawn up from the firewood pile.

I tried select good bits...with some fiddleback so should look a treat if it works out...

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2019-02-07 21.19.43.jpg (456.06 KiB) Viewed 5647 times

2019-02-07 21.20.01.jpg (407.99 KiB) Viewed 5647 times

2019-02-07 21.20.51.jpg (354.17 KiB) Viewed 5647 times

Despite my best efforts...this stupid site apparently deems it would be better for my uploaded pics to be out of chronological order, & even when i re-do the lot again, it still thinks it knows better...
Thank god i wont be here when the govt's robots in my lounge room know better...!!!

[bigpete]

You don't necessarily need to heat the tang to peen it sufficiently

[Gaznazdiak]

If you want your pix in order Stix, you need to use the "Place image in line" option.

Just put the cursor where you want the pic and click the button, presto.

Nice wood

[bladeracer]

So guys...
Ive been busy selecting & cutting some wood (from the fire wood pile ) for this handle.
But have a couple more questions...

Despite my best efforts...this stupid site apparently deems it would be better for my uploaded pics to be out of chronological order, & even when i re-do the lot again, it still thinks it knows better...
Thank god i wont be here when the govt's robots in my lounge room know better...!!!

You need to add the pictures in the reverse order you want them to display.
Otherwise, you can put the cursor where you want the specific picture, then click the "Place Inline" button.
This is after you've used other software to reduce the size of your pictures to fit the 2Mb limit.

[Stix]

Yep...i do the "place in line bizo"...infact always do it...
Sometimes it makes no diff...

It came out as you see it in a preview...
So i deleted most of it back & waalaah...same same...

Its done it before & it'll do it again...

[Gaznazdiak]

Yep...i do the "place in line bizo"...infact always do it...
Sometimes it makes no diff...

It came out as you see it in a preview...
So i deleted most of it back & waalaah...same same...

Its done it before & it'll do it again...

Technology, making life more satifying

[Stix]

So a few more questions...

How big dhould the forward bolster plate be...same size as the handle...? Or should it be bigger...?
(Im not sure if there's a traditional type look i should be aiming for... )

With peening the end of tang-- is this just enough to help lock jandle in place like a rivet/small lip...?

Also, what material & gauge is best to use for the rear end cap...?

[Ecobogan]

Progressing well mate, I think in this case the bolster plate size could be what you think looks best. I'd probably run it the same size as the handle only because I like butchers knifes to have subtle slimline handles...seems to accentuate the blade. But go full gnarly arty if you want.
About 1.6 - 3 mm would be the guage I'd use for the end cap...2mm ideally.
Stainless or mild, mild would patina better and have more personality.
If you want get flash, slightly dome the end cap with a ball pein hammer on a block of wood. Can send a demo pic if you need.
You'll want a fairly good 'fold over' where the tang exits onto the butt plate. Not hard to do but the far end of the blade will want to be supported by something pretty solid...clamped in a vice resting on the jaw slide preferably.
All this loaded with a good 2 part epoxy you should be very confident in the next zombie apocalypse.

[Stix]

Thanks Ecobogan...!!!
I like your ideas & visions...very inspiring...!!!
Ive thought about it a little, & seen pics of some knives with bigger bolster plates & think.i prefer the 'ssme size as the handle' like you suggest...

Yes id love any pics you have for demonstration purposes...

When you say fairly good foldover, can you give an idea of how good...maybe in terms of size or % of diameter of handle...? (I have no idea)..

I was thinking of some brass for the plate & cap bit now you mention it, mild steel will look better given the existing look of the blade...

Cheers for now...

[Ecobogan]

No worries at all... I'm something of a knife fan.
By a good fold over that means a nice sharpish bend of the tang where it exits through the butt plate.
The tang would ideally be no more than about 3mm thick (as viewed from the side) at the point of bend. It can still be the normal width (as viewed from the top) and need poke out no more than 10mm through the butt plate, before folded over, 15 mm max.
The fold over business is as much to keep things neat and tidy as anything and as you suggested is there to stop the butt plate from working its way backwards off the handle so doesn't need that much of a lip or fold really.
I'll be back in the workshop tomorrow so can take some demo pics then.
Can you get your hands on a bit of 2ish mm sheet? Bases of old whitegoods are prime candidates.
Hope this is of some help and ask away if my explanations are somewhat ambiguous

[Stix]

Thanks ecobogan...

Yes i should be able to get dome 2mm sheet somewhere...i may have some laying around somewhere..

Im happy to see some ssmple pics...

[Ecobogan]

Mate this is quite frustrating.... I just loaded the pics....the ones that would load anyway.
Hit submit and it told me the file was invalid and WIPED THE LOT!!! I'll try again but this caper always requires someone with the 'can upload pics' gene.
Give me either a minute or 6 months.

[bigpete]

Screenshot_20190215-214306_Google.jpg (65.34 KiB) Viewed 2765 times

This is all you need to do

[Ecobogan]

Roughly cut out with angle grinder

IMG_20190214_162248.jpg (2 MiB) Viewed 2739 times

Drill hole for tang

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Sheet metal with concave hammered in

IMG_20190214_161757.jpg (1.86 MiB) Viewed 2739 times

[Ecobogan]

These are the only pics I could upload. Unfortunately some important steps had to be left out and I forgot to put them in reverse order.
Anyway Stix, get a piece of hardwood and draw a 40mm circle on the end grain. Using the round pein end of a ball pein hammer, beat a concave dish shape 40mm round using your 40mm circle as a guide....go about 5-6mm deep in the centre.
This is the 'die' if you like. Draw a 30 mm circle on the sheet metal, place it over the wooden concave die and, while holding the sheet metal firmly with vice grips or similar, beat the sheet metal into the timber concave.
The reason for the 40mm die is so you'll end up with a bigger dish than you need and can be pruned down to size.
Not sure why these 3 pics are the only ones that'd upload... took about 10 shots!
Hope this is clear. I've had trouble uploading pics online before...seems to be hit n miss... I'll get my girlfriend to have a go when she gets in.

[Ecobogan]

Here's the indented timber die

Screenshot_20190221-100213.png (942.12 KiB) Viewed 2709 times

Any progress mate?

[Stix]

Thanks Pete & Eco...

Great pics Eco--very helpful...!!!

So in the schematic pic posted by Pete...all logic tells me that the "peen block" is going to be the end cap ive peened out...yes...?

Im not sure the wood will take a good punishment to completely peen it out...so i may resort to the tack weld as sugessted earlier & grind flat.

Any tips for the bolster plate...just flat, tack welded to the tang & finished flush with timber (like a recoil pad on a shotti)...?

[bigpete]

Dont weld it to the tang,you'll ruin the temper at a critical point. Make the hole for the tang slightly small the tap it on with a hammer and a bit of pipe for a tight friction fit.
Peening on sword pommels was usually done before fitting the handle.

[Stix]

Dont weld it to the tang,you'll ruin the temper at a critical point. Make the hole for the tang slightly small the tap it on with a hammer and a bit of pipe for a tight friction fit.
Peening on sword pommels was usually done before fitting the handle.

Sounds like good advice...cheers Pete...!!

Ill have to search for the right size pipe...being in the building industry i have a lot of pvc & copper pipe that wont stand up to much 'tapping', but not much steel pipe that will be thin enough for this handle...but a farmer i know will have something im sure...

I obviously cant peen on the pommel (i had to google what a 'pommel' was... ) before the handlle, given blade...

[Stix]

Dont weld it to the tang,you'll ruin the temper at a critical point. Make the hole for the tang slightly small the tap it on with a hammer and a bit of pipe for a tight friction fit.
Peening on sword pommels was usually done before fitting the handle.

Sounds like good advice...cheers Pete...!!

Ill have to search for the right size pipe...being in the building industry i have a lot of pvc & copper pipe that wont stand up to much 'tapping', but not much steel pipe that will be thin enough for this handle...but a farmer i know will have something im sure...

I obviously cant peen on the pommel (i had to google what a 'pommel' was... ) before the handlle, given blade...

Actually...so we are on the same page...i assume by the 'pommel' you are reffering to the cap at the rear of the handle & not the the front (im assuming the front is the 'bolster plate')

[Ecobogan]

If Bigpete means not welding the forward bolster plate to the tang then that's right for sure, def don't do that for reasons he mentioned.
Tell me if this is what you meant Bigpete...make the forward bolster plate (not the pommel?) a tight fit on the tang at the biggest most forward point, a few mil back say, and get a piece of pipe that's longer than the handle. With the blade held firmly in the vice with tang pointing upwards slide the bolster plate on till it gets tight and hammer it home using the pipe as a drift. Sound about good?
That's prob how I'd run it then slide or tap the epoxy loaded handle on next.
It'd be hilarious mate if after that long-windedness you replied with a simple Nup.

Anyway Stix, without making this a full house career move still have a crack at peening the butt plate/ pommel on, looks much better and the girls will love it.
Pete's diagram is probably an easier way than folding the tang over but will have to be done with the front end of the blade well supported. Again vertically in the vice.
You'll be a black belt in this caper when she's done

[Stix]

If Bigpete means not welding the forward bolster plate to the tang then that's right for sure, def don't do that for reasons he mentioned.
Tell me if this is what you meant Bigpete...make the forward bolster plate (not the pommel?) a tight fit on the tang at the biggest most forward point, a few mil back say, and get a piece of pipe that's longer than the handle. With the blade held firmly in the vice with tang pointing upwards slide the bolster plate on till it gets tight and hammer it home using the pipe as a drift. Sound about good?
That's prob how I'd run it then slide or tap the epoxy loaded handle on next.
It'd be hilarious mate if after that long-windedness you replied with a simple Nup.

Anyway Stix, without making this a full house career move still have a crack at peening the butt plate/ pommel on, looks much better and the girls will love it.
Excellent...!! Ill be stoked with just one girl, but 2 or more...YAY...!!
Pete's diagram is probably an easier way than folding the tang over but will have to be done with the front end of the blade well supported. Again vertically in the vice.
Yep no worries...
You'll be a black belt in this caper when she's done

Im looking forward to giving it a crack...!!

What you're asking/assuming about Pete's post is what i assume too ecobogan...thats why i asked my last question for clarification.

& speaking of questions...is it worth a little dob of epoxy on the inside (wood handle side) of the bolster plate & end cap/pommel...?

[bigpete]

Yes that's what I mean

[Ecobogan]

If Bigpete means not welding the forward bolster plate to the tang then that's right for sure, def don't do that for reasons he mentioned.
Tell me if this is what you meant Bigpete...make the forward bolster plate (not the pommel?) a tight fit on the tang at the biggest most forward point, a few mil back say, and get a piece of pipe that's longer than the handle. With the blade held firmly in the vice with tang pointing upwards slide the bolster plate on till it gets tight and hammer it home using the pipe as a drift. Sound about good?
That's prob how I'd run it then slide or tap the epoxy loaded handle on next.
It'd be hilarious mate if after that long-windedness you replied with a simple Nup.

Anyway Stix, without making this a full house career move still have a crack at peening the butt plate/ pommel on, looks much better and the girls will love it.
Excellent...!! Ill be stoked with just one girl, but 2 or more...YAY...!!
Pete's diagram is probably an easier way than folding the tang over but will have to be done with the front end of the blade well supported. Again vertically in the vice.
Yep no worries...
You'll be a black belt in this caper when she's done

Im looking forward to giving it a crack...!!

What you're asking/assuming about Pete's post is what i assume too ecobogan...thats why i asked my last question for clarification.

& speaking of questions...is it worth a little dob of epoxy on the inside (wood handle side) of the bolster plate & end cap/pommel...?

Definitely epoxy inside the handle, bolster plate and pommel. Give the tang a few shallow scores with an angle grinder cut off wheel too, will help key the tang to the handle.
Prob not essential but will help.
And the peen block is the butt plate/pommel as you asked.
Game on!