If you had a cat C permit...

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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 12 Apr 2019, 9:30 pm

cracker wrote:for all those who are keen as on cat c, get your collectors license.
plenty of info on here and on lrd's website.


As long as you're happy to only own them, not actually go out shooting with them.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by cracker » 12 Apr 2019, 11:34 pm

bladeracer wrote:
cracker wrote:for all those who are keen as on cat c, get your collectors license.
plenty of info on here and on lrd's website.


As long as you're happy to only own them, not actually go out shooting with them.


as iv said before mate once a month is plenty for me, i really enjoy it.
private range date once a month is ace.
the whole you cant shoot them is just crap, theres actually no where you can just flat up mag dump 45 pistols and bigger (45/75)50ae), 12g shotguns, semi auto 22's, pump shooties 12gs
. once you actually get into its really good fun, the only reason you say its useless, is up to you, your choice.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 12 Apr 2019, 11:43 pm

cracker wrote:as iv said before mate once a month is plenty for me, i really enjoy it.
private range date once a month is ace.
the whole you cant shoot them is just crap, theres actually no where you can just flat up mag dump 45 pistols and bigger (45/75)50ae), 12g shotguns, semi auto 22's, pump shooties 12gs
. once you actually get into its really good fun, the only reason you say its useless, is up to you, your choice.


I have no interest in mag dumping pistols, or shooting semi-auto rifles - I've done all that before the laws changed, but I don't begrudge you from enjoying it if that's your thing.
Agreed, but likewise, that's your opinion too. If I can't wander down the paddock and enjoy a firearm whenever I feel like it, it's not worth putting it in my safes.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Apr 2019, 9:00 am

Die Judicii wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:...taking to a friend and he reminds me I cancan apply for a cat C with my circumstances,



Tas, if your thinking along the lines of using medical or physical difficulties as an inroad to getting a Cat C license,,,,, think long and carefully Mate.

If they grant you a Cat C status on those grounds,,,,,, (as in can't or have difficulty in manipulating a bolt action etc) they may possibly then turn around and say you don't need any Cat A or B firearms and Bingo,,,,,,, they're gone. :shock:
.


Appreciate the heads up and very interesting- something I didn’t think about.
I’ve been recently granted primary production status with my private timber reserve - which is a legit tree farm.
Interestingly - from what hive read, anyone with land over 10 hectares, with a parcel of standing trees (doesn’t have to be plantation) can apply to have their trees registered as a private timber reserve...this can then allow for certain “benefits”. Mind you - you would not bother doing it, if your sole purpose was to try and procure a cat c firearm...not worth it.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by womble » 13 Apr 2019, 9:15 am

Interesting isn’t it
Cat C is for land owners and rich people
Even cat A and B is difficult if you’re blue collar and don’t really asociate much with lawyers, doctors
Class system
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by JSS » 13 Apr 2019, 9:36 am

TassieTiger wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:...taking to a friend and he reminds me I cancan apply for a cat C with my circumstances,



Tas, if your thinking along the lines of using medical or physical difficulties as an inroad to getting a Cat C license,,,,, think long and carefully Mate.

If they grant you a Cat C status on those grounds,,,,,, (as in can't or have difficulty in manipulating a bolt action etc) they may possibly then turn around and say you don't need any Cat A or B firearms and Bingo,,,,,,, they're gone. :shock:
.


Appreciate the heads up and very interesting- something I didn’t think about.
I’ve been recently granted primary production status with my private timber reserve - which is a legit tree farm.
Interestingly - from what hive read, anyone with land over 10 hectares, with a parcel of standing trees (doesn’t have to be plantation) can apply to have their trees registered as a private timber reserve...this can then allow for certain “benefits”. Mind you - you would not bother doing it, if your sole purpose was to try and procure a cat c firearm...not worth it.


Yep i've heard a similar rumour floating around that Die Judicii is talking about, the version i heard was if your medical reason was "recoil for injured shoulder" then they may come and take any other high powered rifles off you that they deem to have big recoil. i don't know if it's true or just a scare tactic put out to stop people trying the medical cat c route. It would suck if they did it to you though.... :shock:
I know here in Qld if you use it (medical) to get a semi 12g for say shooting clays, you have to limit the mag capacity to 2 rounds. So unless it really is for genuine recoil reduction for an injury it defeats the purpose in getting one as you can fire two rounds just as fast from a double barrel.
Also i think (if i remember correctly) that that gun can only be used at the range and can't be taken out hunting. They've really made it just not worth doing unless you're genuine.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Apr 2019, 3:37 pm

womble wrote:Interesting isn’t it
Cat C is for land owners and rich people
Even cat A and B is difficult if you’re blue collar and don’t really asociate much with lawyers, doctors
Class system


I doubt too many farmers, tree reserve ppl would agree re being rich...
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 Apr 2019, 4:41 pm

Agreed TT. I knew a guy 5000 acres and still drove an old 20 year old 4wd... and his house looked nothing much as well.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by womble » 13 Apr 2019, 4:46 pm

Yeah not quite what I meant. Farmers around here are desperate times.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by on_one_wheel » 13 Apr 2019, 4:52 pm

A Ruger 10/22 would be first on the list

Synthetic stock, stainless action , carbon fibre barrel.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Apr 2019, 6:27 pm

womble wrote:Yeah not quite what I meant. Farmers around here are desperate times.


I’m not rich in any sense of the word, but I have some superannuation and got tired of arsehats taking their chunk every 1/4 - there is nothing to stop ppl in similar circumstances from putting their super into a small parcel of bush land, planting some trees as an investment - and somewhere to shoot/hunt at the same time.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 Apr 2019, 9:24 pm

Just make sure you don't live on it mate, as ato can get very nasty.

aS always talk to an account
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by cracker » 13 Apr 2019, 10:22 pm

bladeracer wrote:
cracker wrote:as iv said before mate once a month is plenty for me, i really enjoy it.
private range date once a month is ace.
the whole you cant shoot them is just crap, theres actually no where you can just flat up mag dump 45 pistols and bigger (45/75)50ae), 12g shotguns, semi auto 22's, pump shooties 12gs
. once you actually get into its really good fun, the only reason you say its useless, is up to you, your choice.


I have no interest in mag dumping pistols, or shooting semi-auto rifles - I've done all that before the laws changed, but I don't begrudge you from enjoying it if that's your thing.
Agreed, but likewise, that's your opinion too. If I can't wander down the paddock and enjoy a firearm whenever I feel like it, it's not worth putting it in my safes.


yeah fair play mate, not all of us were around pre 96 its fun to let your hair down sometimes and not take it so seriously.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Apr 2019, 12:43 am

Ziad wrote:Just make sure you don't live on it mate, as ato can get very nasty.

aS always talk to an account


Unlike our firearm puppet masters, I’ve found the ato to be bloody helpful!
If you get the correct person, right their name and ID down. They’ll always say they can’t give advice but then turn around and help you so you get off the phone...if you did want to live on the super property, you’d have to retitle if council allowed or restructure another way - yes, accountants can / will help.
Just dispelling the myth - don’t need to be wealthy to “own” or “lease” a private parcel of land...
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 14 Apr 2019, 4:08 am

womble wrote:Interesting isn’t it
Cat C is for land owners and rich people
Even cat A and B is difficult if you’re blue collar and don’t really asociate much with lawyers, doctors
Class system


I think I see your point but I dont entirely agree.
CatC is for people that use a firearm as a tool to earn income, but you don't have to be well off. The licences and the firearms are no more expensive than CatA/B. You just need to be working in an occupation that makes you eligible.

As for CatA/B being difficult, I can't agree at all. Anybody with a clean record can get a firearms license, you don't have to associate with any of those types, I never have.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 14 Apr 2019, 4:11 am

JSS wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:...taking to a friend and he reminds me I cancan apply for a cat C with my circumstances,



Tas, if your thinking along the lines of using medical or physical difficulties as an inroad to getting a Cat C license,,,,, think long and carefully Mate.

If they grant you a Cat C status on those grounds,,,,,, (as in can't or have difficulty in manipulating a bolt action etc) they may possibly then turn around and say you don't need any Cat A or B firearms and Bingo,,,,,,, they're gone. :shock:
.


Appreciate the heads up and very interesting- something I didn’t think about.
I’ve been recently granted primary production status with my private timber reserve - which is a legit tree farm.
Interestingly - from what hive read, anyone with land over 10 hectares, with a parcel of standing trees (doesn’t have to be plantation) can apply to have their trees registered as a private timber reserve...this can then allow for certain “benefits”. Mind you - you would not bother doing it, if your sole purpose was to try and procure a cat c firearm...not worth it.


Yep i've heard a similar rumour floating around that Die Judicii is talking about, the version i heard was if your medical reason was "recoil for injured shoulder" then they may come and take any other high powered rifles off you that they deem to have big recoil. i don't know if it's true or just a scare tactic put out to stop people trying the medical cat c route. It would suck if they did it to you though.... :shock:
I know here in Qld if you use it (medical) to get a semi 12g for say shooting clays, you have to limit the mag capacity to 2 rounds. So unless it really is for genuine recoil reduction for an injury it defeats the purpose in getting one as you can fire two rounds just as fast from a double barrel.
Also i think (if i remember correctly) that that gun can only be used at the range and can't be taken out hunting. They've really made it just not worth doing unless you're genuine.


The reason for getting a semi-auto is the reduced recoil is easier on your body, not to be able to shoot quicker. Yes, if you get CatC for competition, then that's all you can use it for.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bigrich » 14 Apr 2019, 5:51 am

cracker wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
cracker wrote:as iv said before mate once a month is plenty for me, i really enjoy it.
private range date once a month is ace.
the whole you cant shoot them is just crap, theres actually no where you can just flat up mag dump 45 pistols and bigger (45/75)50ae), 12g shotguns, semi auto 22's, pump shooties 12gs
. once you actually get into its really good fun, the only reason you say its useless, is up to you, your choice.


I have no interest in mag dumping pistols, or shooting semi-auto rifles - I've done all that before the laws changed, but I don't begrudge you from enjoying it if that's your thing.
Agreed, but likewise, that's your opinion too. If I can't wander down the paddock and enjoy a firearm whenever I feel like it, it's not worth putting it in my safes.


yeah fair play mate, not all of us were around pre 96 its fun to let your hair down sometimes and not take it so seriously.


Pre 96, ahh , the good ole days. I had a mate with a m1 carbine and a sks back then. The m1 would fire as fast as you could pull the trigger. With a 30 round mag ( only loaded up with 28 , as 30 would jam it , it would honestly sound like a machine gun. Bit expensive after a bit, 30 carbine ammo wasn’t cheap. The same fella had a uncle who handed two of his rifles in , mini 14 and a 30-06 garrand. I got to shoot a ruger 10/44 back when too . That little semi 44 mag had some thump. I’ve seen a few for sale in recent years, wish I had justification to own one
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Apr 2019, 6:47 am

Reduced recoil in a 12g is a reasonable request for many - would it be fair to assume a semi auto 12g would have a lot less recoil than either a pump or lever?
Also - forgive my ignorance here but ole mate who wants a pump centrefire - i assume they don’t load via a nose to tail tube for safety of nose into primer like 22’s, so do they use a normal mag and use some recoil gases to pre load a cartridge ?
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by womble » 14 Apr 2019, 12:35 pm

Hopefully bladeracer will give you a better explanation as my experience is also limited and distant memory.
But a pump action is an entirely manual operation, no use of recoil gasses.

In 12 gauge I went from a side by side hammer gun to a mossberg 500 pump. Which is a pretty cheap gun. Synthetic stock, mass produced junk really. Somewhat better to shoot, because nothing is more brutal than the old side by side.
But then I swapped the mossberg for a Bennelli semi auto, expensive well balanced nicely put together with a wood stock. and that was a dramatic difference in recoil.
The only other semi auto I used infrequently was a franchi spas which was still a nice piece of kit but not a patch on the Bennell
I guess recoil is relative depending how much you need/want to shoot the gun. In 12 gauge most stuff available for cat a/b is not much fun if you want to shoot all day
Unless it’s a nice u/o trap gun or something.
I’ve seen shotguns nowadays with muzzle brakes and I saw one with ported barrels, things that would vent some gas and make them a bit more pleasant.
Plastic stocks I would avoid in 12 gauge and I think you need something that’s nicely weighted, balanced.
I guess you get what you pay for like anything else. Some of the better straight pulls seem well reviewed recoil wise.

And of course recoil is relative to the individual. The only shotgun I take anywhere nowadays is a 410. Probably my favourite gun to shoot actually.

But that’s simplistic, there’s more to the story. Bladeracer ?
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by JSS » 14 Apr 2019, 1:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JSS wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:...taking to a friend and he reminds me I cancan apply for a cat C with my circumstances,



Tas, if your thinking along the lines of using medical or physical difficulties as an inroad to getting a Cat C license,,,,, think long and carefully Mate.

If they grant you a Cat C status on those grounds,,,,,, (as in can't or have difficulty in manipulating a bolt action etc) they may possibly then turn around and say you don't need any Cat A or B firearms and Bingo,,,,,,, they're gone. :shock:
.


Appreciate the heads up and very interesting- something I didn’t think about.
I’ve been recently granted primary production status with my private timber reserve - which is a legit tree farm.
Interestingly - from what hive read, anyone with land over 10 hectares, with a parcel of standing trees (doesn’t have to be plantation) can apply to have their trees registered as a private timber reserve...this can then allow for certain “benefits”. Mind you - you would not bother doing it, if your sole purpose was to try and procure a cat c firearm...not worth it.


Yep i've heard a similar rumour floating around that Die Judicii is talking about, the version i heard was if your medical reason was "recoil for injured shoulder" then they may come and take any other high powered rifles off you that they deem to have big recoil. i don't know if it's true or just a scare tactic put out to stop people trying the medical cat c route. It would suck if they did it to you though.... :shock:
I know here in Qld if you use it (medical) to get a semi 12g for say shooting clays, you have to limit the mag capacity to 2 rounds. So unless it really is for genuine recoil reduction for an injury it defeats the purpose in getting one as you can fire two rounds just as fast from a double barrel.
Also i think (if i remember correctly) that that gun can only be used at the range and can't be taken out hunting. They've really made it just not worth doing unless you're genuine.


The reason for getting a semi-auto is the reduced recoil is easier on your body, not to be able to shoot quicker. Yes, if you get CatC for competition, then that's all you can use it for.


Yes that was exactly my point. I know of someone who without really looking right into it went and applied for a cat c under medical thinking they would have a good semi 12g for all occasions. By the time they found out all the info and rules that went with it they ended up cancelling the application.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 14 Apr 2019, 1:49 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Reduced recoil in a 12g is a reasonable request for many - would it be fair to assume a semi auto 12g would have a lot less recoil than either a pump or lever?
Also - forgive my ignorance here but ole mate who wants a pump centrefire - i assume they don’t load via a nose to tail tube for safety of nose into primer like 22’s, so do they use a normal mag and use some recoil gases to pre load a cartridge ?


Rose's dad had a semi-auto 12ga because it was easier on his well-worn body.
Depends on the specific design of rifle and the chambering, some centrefires are tube compatible, and some can be made compatible by use of bullets designed for tube mags, like the FTX, they have soft rubber tips instead of plastic ones. Some rifles are designed with box mags, which fixes that problem. They also address the added complexity introduced by tube mags, and minimise having a loose round floating around the action during the cycle. Box mags don't need the additional steps of moving a round from the magazine to the lifter, then raising it to be fed into the chamber. Box mags tend to simply strip rounds from the mag directly into the chamber.

Pump guns and rifles are entirely manually operated, without your weak hand on the fore end it's just a single-shot.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 14 Apr 2019, 2:14 pm

womble wrote:Hopefully bladeracer will give you a better explanation as my experience is also limited and distant memory.
But a pump action is an entirely manual operation, no use of recoil gasses.

In 12 gauge I went from a side by side hammer gun to a mossberg 500 pump. Which is a pretty cheap gun. Synthetic stock, mass produced junk really. Somewhat better to shoot, because nothing is more brutal than the old side by side.
But then I swapped the mossberg for a Bennelli semi auto, expensive well balanced nicely put together with a wood stock. and that was a dramatic difference in recoil.
The only other semi auto I used infrequently was a franchi spas which was still a nice piece of kit but not a patch on the Bennell
I guess recoil is relative depending how much you need/want to shoot the gun. In 12 gauge most stuff available for cat a/b is not much fun if you want to shoot all day
Unless it’s a nice u/o trap gun or something.
I’ve seen shotguns nowadays with muzzle brakes and I saw one with ported barrels, things that would vent some gas and make them a bit more pleasant.
Plastic stocks I would avoid in 12 gauge and I think you need something that’s nicely weighted, balanced.
I guess you get what you pay for like anything else. Some of the better straight pulls seem well reviewed recoil wise.

And of course recoil is relative to the individual. The only shotgun I take anywhere nowadays is a 410. Probably my favourite gun to shoot actually.

But that’s simplistic, there’s more to the story. Bladeracer ?


I think you've pretty well covered it :-)
I have only occasionally used a semi-auto shotgun, and as with most firearms, semi-auto is the pinnacle of development for obvious reasons, despite what anti-gun morons and Fudds insist. Less recoil, maintain sight picture, fast follow-up shots with no change in ergonomics. Manufacturers don't invest billions of dollars into improving firearms to make them worse (although some seem to do just that). They do have a downside in versatility as the action is designed to function within a specific window of pressure and gas volume.

I had busted some clays as a kid in Cadets, but my first shotgun was the Bentley Model 30 20", 8-shot pump gun when I was seventeen. I also had a single-barrel .410 which could deal a decent boot with slugs. Now I have the Stoeger Condor 30" over-under and the Dickinson 28" T1000 straight-pull. The Dickinson has a plastic butt stock that would carry a lot of lead shot if I decide to increase its inertia - rough guess is that it might hold at least 2kg of lead. I want to get the 20" barrel for the T1000 as well.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 20 Apr 2019, 5:52 pm

Well - this became a little more interesting...
FireArms dept called Thursday to say they have received my Cat C permit to acquire but they would not process it - tightened laws without consent or is this normal?

When I asked why, they said - it did not come with the stat dec, the Cat C form, the appropriate endorsement, the rates notice and business name AND I hadn’t completed the tafe course....that is now required for C and D category firearms...seriously - it’s not bloody worth it!!! And yes - I know that’s what they want me to say but seriously, I had to do a two day course to get A and B...wth is another course going to do...
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 21 Apr 2019, 4:24 am

I think most states have extra requirements regarding getting the license also storing the firearms.... otherwise everyone would try and get one
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Apr 2019, 6:22 am

Ziad wrote:I think most states have extra requirements regarding getting the license also storing the firearms.... otherwise everyone would try and get one


The requirements when I first did the course for cat C were;
You had to already have A and B endorsed,
You had to have a genuine reason consistent with the requirements for which the firearms in cat A and B would not suffice AND be in primary production or a professional shooter. That was it.

It seems now, the police and/or govt have added to the requirements with out public notice... if they can do that with cat c, why couldn’t they do it with certain B’s...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by bladeracer » 21 Apr 2019, 2:20 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
Ziad wrote:I think most states have extra requirements regarding getting the license also storing the firearms.... otherwise everyone would try and get one


The requirements when I first did the course for cat C were;
You had to already have A and B endorsed,
You had to have a genuine reason consistent with the requirements for which the firearms in cat A and B would not suffice AND be in primary production or a professional shooter. That was it.

It seems now, the police and/or govt have added to the requirements with out public notice... if they can do that with cat c, why couldn’t they do it with certain B’s...


I don't know anything about TAFE courses, that must be a local thing. But if you're applying on the basis of PP then yes, you have to provide evidence of your business, and if as a professional then you need evidence of contracts, income and such.
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Re: If you had a cat C permit...

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Apr 2019, 9:22 pm

bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
Ziad wrote:I think most states have extra requirements regarding getting the license also storing the firearms.... otherwise everyone would try and get one


The requirements when I first did the course for cat C were;
You had to already have A and B endorsed,
You had to have a genuine reason consistent with the requirements for which the firearms in cat A and B would not suffice AND be in primary production or a professional shooter. That was it.

It seems now, the police and/or govt have added to the requirements with out public notice... if they can do that with cat c, why couldn’t they do it with certain B’s...


I don't know anything about TAFE courses, that must be a local thing. But if you're applying on the basis of PP then yes, you have to provide evidence of your business, and if as a professional then you need evidence of contracts, income and such.


It’s all been provided and verified - but I’m not doing another course simply to “try” and get a cat C. Attendance doesn’t automatically qualify you either... I should have asked how long it’s been in that a tafe course is part of cat C...a couple weeks me thinks.
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TassieTiger
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