Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

General conversation and chit chat - The place for non-shooting specific topics. Introduce yourself here.

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by TwelveCheeseSticks » 11 Feb 2020, 5:08 pm

deye243 wrote:I find this a bit suss ...... y'all fell for it

Ah drats, i've been found out.
It's true, I;m researching this so i can invade the Czech republic and claim it's many mountains for myself and a herd of rabid goats.
TwelveCheeseSticks
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 8
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by TwelveCheeseSticks » 11 Feb 2020, 5:09 pm

Norton wrote:Well, this is new :lol:

To argue the other side of the coin to Bigrich...

If you want to be technically accurate, a bolt-action rifle is going to be better suited for your story IMO.

Bolt actions are very simple, making them strong and reliable. Not that you'd ever advise such a thing in the real world, but if starting with a well maintained rifle you could realistically expect many years without problems (other than it getting a bit sticky).

Lever actions are mechanically more complex and jamming is more common. Partly due to the complexity, also often due to the operator not quite completing the lever throw and causing a jam.

How long "long range" is depending on your point of view. You mention he's a "marksman", but also that he "has his gun license" which sounds a lot more civilian to me.

If you're talking about a hunter/recreational shooter, real world "long range" is going to be something like 400-500 metres max with the type of rifle they're likely to have.

If you're talking about a trained marksman you could be talking about 1,000m - 1,500m but you'd be talking about a more purpose built precision rifle, and high quality optics for that. No Joe Blow goes into a gun shop and grabs a $900 off-the-shelf hunting rifle and starts hitting bulleyes at 1,500m, you know?

"What cartridge is best" is a conversation that's literally been discussed millions of times in the shooting community :lol: I'd keep it simple and say .308 Winchester, or .300 Win Mag. These are both popular, proven, highly capable cartridges. Go .300 Win Mag if you're story is going to be extreme range stuff.

Either of these would go through 10 layers of medieval plate without blinking. All but the very smallest centrefire cartridges would go through 1 layer without any trouble whatsoever.

About brands, realistically, there are a dozen brands that would fit the story. Remington, and maybe more so Ruger, are both known to be reliable. I think it's fair to say Remington leans more towards accuracy, where being rugged and near unbreakable is very much part of Rugers brand image.

Hope that helps.



Thanks for the reply Norton, you've really helped point me in the right direction.

Cheers
TwelveCheeseSticks
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 8
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bladeracer » 11 Feb 2020, 5:10 pm

TwelveCheeseSticks wrote:Thanks for the reply.

He'll be shooting anywhere between 10 metres to a little over a kilometre (He does this once to impress another character), But he's no military grade marine, He's a office worker who shoots hogs every few months.

How large is his target at that distance?
He has a scope, but im not exactly sure the types of those. ANy recommendations for brands of those?

Cheers


Leupold (pronounced Loopold) would be a good well-known brand.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by TwelveCheeseSticks » 11 Feb 2020, 5:14 pm

bladeracer wrote:
I would very strongly recommend that whatever firearms you decide to write about that you go and actually spend some time handling and shooting them. I am continually annoyed by writers trying to sound authentic by describing the gun, then failing dismally by things like "He instinctively flicked off the safety as he drew his Glock from its holster and caressed the hair trigger with his finger.", (Glocks don't have safeties and have horrendously heavy triggers), or "His clip was almost out of bullets!". In virtually all cases, clips are used to quickly transfer cartridges into the magazine of a firearm - clips are not magazines. Bullets come out the muzzle, cartridges are loaded into the firearm.

And I suggest you fire the firearms without hearing protection at least once, the noise is often totally overlooked by novelists.

For reliability, accuracy and longevity I think you're limited to bolt-action rifles, but the chambering is a wide choice, virtually anything from .223Rem and up will penetrate 2-3mm steel out to hundreds of meters, and medieval armour was not particularly tough. The volume of the ammunition being carried might make it sensible to stick to the smaller cartridges, like .223 - you can carry two or three times more .223 in your pockets than you can .30-06.

Unless your protaganist happened to be carrying a great deal of ammo at the time he went back, you might need to learn about reloading cartridges using blackpowder, or if you're travelling to pre-gunpowder times, learn how to make it yourself - that'll really impress those maidens :-)


Him running out of ammunition isn't much of a problem, as the people living in the world do have access to gunpowder and he has basic knowledge of reloading (I'm going to purposefully be more vague about this, as the subject seems so complicated), The gunpowder is mostly used for ming and whatnot as firearms are considered a very niche weapon which is outclassed by magic, which is plentiful. As for carrying all that ammo, which could he carry around 400 rounds without getting uncomfortable? He's a bit of a wimp, so he cant lift anything particularly heavy.

Cheers, thanks for the reply
TwelveCheeseSticks
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 8
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bladeracer » 11 Feb 2020, 5:32 pm

Gunpowder back then was nothing like the propellants we have now. If he has to resort to loading his modern cartridges with cast lead bullets and blackpowder he is going to give up great deal of performance over modern ammunition. He'll basically have a very small bore rifled musket in that case.

400rds of .223 is probably doable if he doesn't have to carry much else, 400rds of .308 or .30-06 is a different matter. I can weigh both if you want real numbers.

400 rounds of .223 weighs about 4.8kg with 62gn military bullets.
400 rounds of .30-06 weighs about 10kg with 150gn bullets or 10.5kg with 180gn bullets.
400 rounds of .22LR weighs about 1.3kg with 40gn bullets.
400 rounds of 9mm pistol ammo weighs about the same as .223Rem ammo.
Last edited by bladeracer on 11 Feb 2020, 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bladeracer » 11 Feb 2020, 5:38 pm

If they have magic though they shouldn't have any trouble magicking up more rifles and ammo whenever required. But I doubt firearms will be of any use against magic.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by poid » 11 Feb 2020, 6:17 pm

TwelveCheeseSticks wrote:
He's a bit of a wimp, so he cant lift anything particularly heavy.

Cheers, thanks for the reply


Then the round should be 6.5 Creedmoor :lol:

How hard do you want to push the 'aussie' angle? Talking about his trusty Lithgow bolt-action would work pretty well if you are pushing that angle. In 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor they can shoot 1000 yards, if you want to emphasise lots of rounds they come in 223 as well.

Agree that getting to a range and doing some shooting will do your writing a world of good.
poid
Private
Private
 
Posts: 79
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bigrich » 11 Feb 2020, 7:36 pm

TwelveCheeseSticks wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

He'll be shooting anywhere between 10 metres to a little over a kilometre (He does this once to impress another character), But he's no military grade marine, He's a office worker who shoots hogs every few months.

He has a scope, but im not exactly sure the types of those. ANy recommendations for brands of those?

Cheers


scopes, leupold (qaulity USA made ) are my choice . shooting over a kilometer is a real feat , even for a military trained sniper, with a big heavy purpose made sniper rifle . i have spoken to people who have made 400 yard shots successfully . longest shot myself to date was 220 yards at a goat on a ridge . for a casual shooter ,who shoots hogs every few months , i might suggest a more modest distance would be in his abilities . as a reference however, if i remember correctly , the record held for a 45-70 sharps rifle (google please tcs, old school buffalo gun from around the 1880's ) at new yorks creedmore rifle range , was 10 shots in 9 inches at 1000 yards . also google "45-70 sandy hook tests " the us military conducted tests with the 45-70 where the shooter hit a 6 foot target at 2.5 miles in 1879 .the rifles used had the flip up apperature sights , not telescopic. quite a feat . aside from making primers, reloading with black powder and casting lead bullets would be viable for your story i think . a compatable old time caliber might be written into your story . the 30-30 and 45-70 are popular with pig hunters , maybe the hero of the story carries one of these as well :unknown:

you've opened a can of worms for yourself tcs , explore the things relevant to your story line , have a shoot if you can to get the real experience , at a range under guidance of coarse . good to see a writer researching the topics for his book , you might even have fun :D

all the best and cheers :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bladeracer » 11 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm

An ethical hunting shot at 1000m is impossible except for somebody that doesn't care if they cripple or maim the animal, 1000m at human adversaries is a different matter - if that's the shot that presents, even a near miss will give them pause to consider a different occupation.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by Wm.Traynor » 11 Feb 2020, 9:39 pm

not so sure a black powder rifle, even a 451 Whitworth, would be right for TCS. For instance, 400 lead bullets for one of those things would weigh more than 20 pounds/10kg.
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by SCJ429 » 12 Feb 2020, 6:39 am

My vote is for a Sako TRG or Accuracy International AW in 300 Win Mag or 308 Winchester topped with a Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56. Has some one klm capability and would impress most medieval cretins. You can get factory match ammo to suit these calibers which negates the need of the writer to navigate the complex world of reloading.

Otherwise a 375 Cheytac in a custom action could tickle the fancy of fantasy readers. :shock:
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 12 Feb 2020, 6:58 am

And this is precisely why i think many stories are not 100% factually accurate regards to guns. REPLY TO WM.T post

If the guy uses black powder, as smokeless is not available in olden times, the speeds will be very low... and even lower with a lead bullet. Plus the barrel will gey dirty so he will need to clean the barrel after every shot either lead or powder fowling. From a 308, speeds are probably around 1500fps, which will be good to take an animal or your armor plates at around 100-200m, no way 1000m.

The problem is that he will need lot of equipment and need to learn lots of skills to make these bullets, stuff that might not be readily available. He can't walk to the shops and get some federal large rifle primers, or a lee lead melter, (yes he might be able to goto a blacksmith). But the bigger problem is there is no internet and how many shooters as a percentage now have knowledge to build lead projectiles and mix up black powder and primer compound.

Also you assumption is that he knew he was going to fantasy lands and thus he is carrying 400 bullets to start up. You guys hunt, tell me how many bullets you take with you on a trip, even varminting you are probably take 100max.

Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but some liberties will need to be taken with the equipment.or he will spend most of the first 2/3 months making equipment. Just pretend he had unlimited supply of modern match bullets.
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by straightshooter » 12 Feb 2020, 7:26 am

Rather than rely on vicarious acquisition of firearms knowledge join a rifle club.
You are starting from a zero practical understanding of firearms and are in no position to discern "s4!t from clay" as may often be offered to a naive poster such as yourself on an anonymous forum by marginally less naive posters.
On the other hand, since your intention is to author a fantasy novel then any additional fantasy, boast and braggadocio may not necessarily be out of place.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bladeracer » 12 Feb 2020, 8:42 am

Ziad wrote:And this is precisely why i think many stories are not 100% factually accurate regards to guns. REPLY TO WM.T post

If the guy uses black powder, as smokeless is not available in olden times, the speeds will be very low... and even lower with a lead bullet. Plus the barrel will gey dirty so he will need to clean the barrel after every shot either lead or powder fowling. From a 308, speeds are probably around 1500fps, which will be good to take an animal or your armor plates at around 100-200m, no way 1000m.

The problem is that he will need lot of equipment and need to learn lots of skills to make these bullets, stuff that might not be readily available. He can't walk to the shops and get some federal large rifle primers, or a lee lead melter, (yes he might be able to goto a blacksmith). But the bigger problem is there is no internet and how many shooters as a percentage now have knowledge to build lead projectiles and mix up black powder and primer compound.

Also you assumption is that he knew he was going to fantasy lands and thus he is carrying 400 bullets to start up. You guys hunt, tell me how many bullets you take with you on a trip, even varminting you are probably take 100max.

Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but some liberties will need to be taken with the equipment.or he will spend most of the first 2/3 months making equipment. Just pretend he had unlimited supply of modern match bullets.


I don't take any extra bullets when I go out, the ones in the cartridges are generally enough I find.
We're trying to educate somebody on the nomenclature so he can write accurately and you are referring to cartridges as "bullets" and bullets as "projectiles"?

When I was in primary school I played a bit with casting lead objects simply by carving them into wood, you could probably cast acceptable bullets the same way in a pinch. I don't know how commonly available lead was in medieval times, but with magic you could generate plenty of match-grade modern ammunition as required.

I don't think it's too big a stretch to allow an enthiast to have at least some understanding of what constitutes blackpowder and priming compounds, enough to allow him to experiment with at least. Of course, it would be a whole lot smarter to throw the firearms away, magic is far more efficient and effective.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bigrich » 12 Feb 2020, 8:45 am

Lots of interesting information and advice with regards to this topic. It’s a interesting one, reminds me of the old book and black and white movie, “a Connecticut yankee in King Arthur’s court” . That’s one for the younger fellas to google, and I don’t reckon too many grey hairs would remember that one either. Most ideas aren’t new, but I’ll be interested to see how tcs’s book turns out.
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 12 Feb 2020, 9:01 am

i was just checking if others actually read my posts and yes confuse ppl.
Last edited by Sergeant Hartman on 12 Feb 2020, 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by knowsnothin » 12 Feb 2020, 9:05 am

And make sure the protagonist moans about the rubbish firearm licensing arrangements in his fantasyland.
and his inability to use a moderator to protect his hearing because fantasyland politicians think there are more votes in 'not making guns more dangerous' than actually caring about their constituents health and safety.
I feel these are important themes that have yet to be explored.
Last edited by knowsnothin on 12 Feb 2020, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
knowsnothin
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 134
Western Australia

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by bigrich » 12 Feb 2020, 9:15 am

Ziad wrote:i was just checking if others actually read my posts and yes confuse ppl.


Don’t worry ziad mate, I always read your posts. And yes, they confuse me at times :lol:

Your autocorrect works better than the nazi “enigma “ code machine :lol:

:thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by pomemax » 12 Feb 2020, 10:31 pm

I think this has already been done quite a few times.
starting with a guy called Thor who when he threw his hammer down the bad guys dies but the hammer is right there in Thors hand and if you think about it a revolver looks a bit like a hammer
pomemax
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1165
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by mikejay » 13 Feb 2020, 7:38 am

A piece of whatever threw him back in time broke off and came with him, he jerry rigs it to the magazine with wire and whatnot. The character get infinite ammo because it keeps cycling in the same rounds from the past. Ammo problem solved.
mikejay
Private
Private
 
Posts: 79
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by mikejay » 13 Feb 2020, 8:36 am

Oh and since the character isn't really a shooter, have the gun fitted with a TrackingPoint scope, turns anyone into a sniper.
mikejay
Private
Private
 
Posts: 79
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by mikejay » 13 Feb 2020, 3:32 pm

Actually since the story involves time travel, you're dealing with fantasy anyway so something like this would be more appropriate

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyhR1THflUU
mikejay
Private
Private
 
Posts: 79
New South Wales

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 Feb 2020, 3:54 pm

Mate this is a serious topic.

I do think a pistol that shots long range smart bullets, after hitting the target they return back, like a boomerang.... keeping the Australian link alive

That way you need a bullet resizer and a bullet pointer.

Btw you can call it projectile or whatever :sarcasm:
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Gun advice for a writer who doesn't own guns

Post by mikejay » 14 Feb 2020, 5:26 am

what would you call such a story? A Melbourne Mexican in Govenor Arthur's Colony?
mikejay
Private
Private
 
Posts: 79
New South Wales

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Off topic - General conversation