Any stackers here?

[Sergeant Hartman]

Well taking of gold, only in 2005 it was well under 500usd then rose to 1900usd in 2011 and then dropped to 1000usd in 2016. Now its on the rise again.

My prediction history will repeat itself, and we are cost towards the top than the bottom on this cycle. You buy it now and in 5 years you likely will be losing money... hold for 20 years probably make money.

But put the same money into a house or a bank shares... you probably be higher and no chance the apex gang can steal your life savings, as we see putting them in the Perth mint is same as giving government the control on your gold

[StraightWhiteMale]

Well taking of gold, only in 2005 it was well under 500usd then rose to 1900usd in 2011 and then dropped to 1000usd in 2016. Now its on the rise again.

My prediction history will repeat itself, and we are cost towards the top than the bottom on this cycle. You buy it now and in 5 years you likely will be losing money... hold for 20 years probably make money.

But put the same money into a house or a bank shares... you probably be higher and no chance the apex gang can steal your life savings, as we see putting them in the Perth mint is same as giving government the control on your gold

Its all about purchasing power. As you know a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow and that is what gold is for. Gold maintains its purchasing power over long peroids of time. 60 grand cash today buys me a new ford ranger. In 30 years that new ranger will cost 80 or even 100 thousand. If I had bought 60grand of gold in todays money and kept on to it for that 30 years I would still be able to buy that Ford Ranger with the same amount of gold.

My mate at work just keeps his money in the bank. Money in the bank just looses purchasing power overtime. When I was a kid(I'm 30) dad was earning just over $1000 a week and that was so much money he was able to do a lot. Now $1000 a week income is not far off the breadline. Nan told me she bought a house in Brisbane in 1963 for $3000 with $10 a month homeloan repayments and she was earning about $90 a month. Thats like around 10% of total income. Today the cost of housing for most people is a lot more than 10% of their wage.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Yep agreed on that mate.

But the bigger question is what gives you best returns for the risk. When comparing metals, stocks, real estate etc.

[StraightWhiteMale]

I'm banking on world instability. The future looks bleak and the one stable commodity when the world is in economic/political trouble is gold.

The biggest returns for risk would be stocks no doubt. When real estate goes down your still left with the land. When stocks go down you literally just have piece of paper that says you own a share.

Did you see that movie shanghai knights? Its a comedy set in the very late 1800s and old mate says he is investing all his money in the new blimp technology. The future will be full of blimps not this stupid “automobile” nonsense. Who would drive an automobile when you can have a blimp. Its a good scene.

[TassieTiger]

Quote( Shares scare me, there is nothing solid there. Land is great mate as their is only so much of it and it is useful. After Oil gold has the second most uses of any commodity. Something like 30000 different useses.


Yeah so the reported price is the current spot price. Dealers will sell over spot and buy off you under spot to make their money. I buy from the Perth Mint because their quality is up there as the worlds best and you know their product is legit and not fake. The downside with the Perth Mint they only sell their product and not other mints bullion like the Canadian maple leafs and the American Eagles if you want a bit of variety in your stack.


ABC bullion and KJC bullion are other legit dealers down in Sydney that sell everything. There are dozens of legit dealers in the country but the Perth Mint is obviously the biggest and most world renowned. Bars are cheaper to buy than coins because coins have pictures on both sides and that costs more to make. Minted cost more than cast because minted gives it that nice and shiney look but the metal content is the same. So if you just want to stack size than cast bars are the best value for money. And they should only be a few dollars off spot price.[/quote]

Thank you

[straightshooter]

"When stocks go down you literally just have piece of paper that says you own a share."

And when the monetary system goes down what do you have? Pieces of paper or plastic or just ledger entries.
Few people can escape the mental straightjacket that familiarity with and dependence on our present day monetary system imposes.
One could do well to study how things were in Iron Curtain countries prior to their collapse. Not the headline or propaganda reasons but the real life conditions that lead to the capitulation by those countries to the so called western financial system, colloquially known as democracy.
Just how long can the US simply go on printing money without ending up like Zimbabwe or the Wiemar Republic.
What happens then? I can't imagine it being much the same as it is now.

[Sergeant Hartman]

straightS mate as you probably already know one thing that America has over Zimbabwe is people are conditioned to trust it. So the demand remains there.

Shares is a piece of paper, but it does have an intrinsic value..... which is the asset sheet of a company. So you can in most cases have a pretty good idea how the company is going. Ofcourse a huge part of a value of the shares is the gambling part.

Going back to what SS said, i have noticed over the years quite a few times where countries have tried to get out of the US currency system of payments and everytime, something happens, the government is changed. there is either a revolt in that country, or America goes to war with it, or just the president etc is killed...... i wonder why

[TassieTiger]

straightS mate as you probably already know one thing that America has over Zimbabwe is people are conditioned to trust it. So the demand remains there.

Shares is a piece of paper, but it does have an intrinsic value..... which is the asset sheet of a company. So you can in most cases have a pretty good idea how the company is going. Ofcourse a huge part of a value of the shares is the gambling part.

Going back to what SS said, i have noticed over the years quite a few times where countries have tried to get out of the US currency system of payments and everytime, something happens, the government is changed. there is either a revolt in that country, or America goes to war with it, or just the president etc is killed...... i wonder why

Does it have intrinsic value if the company goes under ? Thinking of global crisis where the businesses themselves collapsed, the executives paid themselves bonuses and the super funds and share holders were left with nothing...(yes - I understand the leveraging re real estate behind the collapse) but I am speaking from the investment fund perspective.

Even with real estate - in the face of outright calamity, is anyone going to recognise a piece of paper / title ? But gold/silver is a tangible...if you can hold and protect it.

All very interesting discussion.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Good point there Tassie, now i would say a reasonable person should pay some attention to what company he is investing in, similar to say a bullion investor outright to know who is caring his joint and how good his safe is quality wise.

Most, infact all of the time there is many warning signs a company is about to have issues, in a situation like that its upto the share investor to manage their risk appetite.

But remember the old saying, risk vs reward. Always shares will have a higher risk, there are other forms of things like government bonds, or even some industries that are mature don't have very high returns but are very stable.

Like in Australia, once the government gave the bank deposit guarantee, it made our banks virtually as good as gold. And finally unless the value of Gold is rising, which it doesn't all the time, so let's assume the value remains the same then due to inflation the value of your gold is actually going down every year.

[TassieTiger]

It’s an interesting situation all round - especially if interest rates keep going down - because those that do have some fiscal understanding will be looking at the many hundreds of thousands equity they may have in their home, and if they can back themselves to turn a higher rate than they can get at bank (high 2’s and low 3’s) - they will be making money...

There’s an entirely weird feeling about “everything” at present...

[StraightWhiteMale]

The US dollar is used for trading oil and hence is the worlds reserve currency. Thats why it is called the petro dollar. The only thing backing the US dollar is the might of the US military to kill you if you try to change to something else. Apart from that it is just a piece of paper that they keep printing and as all fiats do it will revert to zero and they will have to start a new dollar. Everything you buy gets transported and that oil cost was paid for at one point in US dollars. Saddam started selling oil in Euros and than a few buildings came down killing thousands and he was overthrown for WMDs that were not there. Gaddafi tried to trade oil in a gold backed currency that he was creating and he was overthrown. Hillary had emails about this which she deleted.

So the bottom story is. If you don't buy your oil in US dollars than the massive force projection of the American military will have a new enemy.

[wanneroo]

I just don't see it mate. The russians, chinese and the worlds richest elitists are buying so much physical gold. They know there will be a lot of instability in the future and gold is their safest bet. Speaking of elities a lot of elitists are buying up land in NZ. NZ is meant to be the safest place in the world if major economic collapse was to happen. Funny how the mass shooter over there never had a job but travelled the world spending a lot of money and went to places like Pakistan, North Korea and Syria. I am not saying he is somesort of operative but he fits the profile.

Fair call. I’ve always predominantly stuck to real estate myself - after losing about $100k in Telstra, CBA, Rio and AMP...over 5 years on the crash.
Question from someone who doesn’t know any better - silver is currently reported as $27 an ounce, but if you look at the mint or ABC to buy, it’s between $28 and $30 an ounce - is that their profit margin ? Making $ on both sales and buys?? If you were to kick off as a starter - where do you go to buy to know your getting best price?[/quote]

I've done well with Rio, I look at it as a long term hold and they pay nice dividends. It's something I plan on holding for decades to come.

[StraightWhiteMale]

I've done well with Rio, I look at it as a long term hold and they pay nice dividends. It's something I plan on holding for decades to come.

Rio is good, at least they have something that people want and is a physical product. The big problem is all these so called tech companies that are “worth” billions of dollars that offer nothing physical. Their bubble will burst because they are nothing but speculation. Have a look at the worlds richest companies 100 years ago and a lot of them do not even exist anymore. Kodak in the 80s and 90s was a massive company. Now it is nothing because people don't buy film or cameras anymore. The funny thing is Kodak invented the digital camera but they did not have the foresight to adapt to market change.

I'm assuming you have received your return on investment from your buy in at rio so all your dividends are profit. If this is the case than that is great and what you want mate so hold on till the end of days mate.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Hmm i agree with straight comment re petrodollars

[Stoney]

You talk about real estate being a good investment right. What about when your very own Government abolishes Paper Titles for land as proof of ownership as in Qld now. The only proof of ownership is with guess who? As the paper title is now void and a copy is unavailable. One press of a button and you are now homeless. https://rcrlaw.com.au/certificate-of-title/ This is why I am buying precious metals.

[TassieTiger]

You talk about real estate being a good investment right. What about when your very own Government abolishes Paper Titles for land as proof of ownership as in Qld now. The only proof of ownership is with guess who? As the paper title is now void and a copy is unavailable. One press of a button and you are now homeless. https://rcrlaw.com.au/certificate-of-title/ This is why I am buying precious metals.

Electronic titles are just a step forward - just as receipt ink fades, paper if not stored correctly deteriorates.
There is no 100% guarantee for any investment - even precious metals...a huge under ground find could happen, flooding the market, another cheaper commodity being developed to perform with same attributes, a walk away from metal standards...what value were gold/silver in the mad max apocalyptic scenario? Nothing compared to oil and petrol and.....water.
I think diversification is key...too many what if’s...but thanks to some kind gents above - I now own 11 large chunks of pure silver and a tiny chunk of gold. Lol.

[Stoney]

Well taking of gold, only in 2005 it was well under 500usd then rose to 1900usd in 2011 and then dropped to 1000usd in 2016. Now its on the rise again.

My prediction history will repeat itself, and we are cost towards the top than the bottom on this cycle. You buy it now and in 5 years you likely will be losing money... hold for 20 years probably make money.

But put the same money into a house or a bank shares... you probably be higher and no chance the apex gang can steal your life savings, as we see putting them in the Perth mint is same as giving government the control on your gold

My prediction is you are as wrong as can be Ziad. All precious metals move up. They dip sometimes but all ways move up. Global uncertainty drives the prices if you watch it every day. A larger and more prosperous world market also drives demand. There is also talk of another GFC in late 2020.

I also have a number of WW2 genuine Japanese swords. Now the market for these swords isn't massive BUT the growing demand is continually pushing the price upwards because of their rarity. Only so many to go around. Considering what I paid for some compared to what they are worth now is on a scale just like precious metals.

[Stoney]

Electronic titles are just a step forward - just as receipt ink fades, paper if not stored correctly deteriorates.
There is no 100% guarantee for any investment - even precious metals...a huge under ground find could happen, flooding the market, another cheaper commodity being developed to perform with same attributes, a walk away from metal standards...what value were gold/silver in the mad max apocalyptic scenario? Nothing compared to oil and petrol and.....water.
I think diversification is key...too many what if’s...but thanks to some kind gents above - I now own 11 large chunks of pure silver and a tiny chunk of gold. Lol.[/quote]

Most titles are always kept in a safe place mate. Why deliberately abolish titles with no recourse ( as in second copy ) what so ever unless you want to manipulate the situation. It's 2020, Electronic lodgement WITH a BONA FIDE hardcopy for your safe keeping. Why take the hard copy out? One press of a button and gone.

Well done on buying chunks though mate. The silver chunks are a bit bigger than the gold chunks

[StraightWhiteMale]

Mega rich people trade art as a way of preserving wealth. Rich man A has a painting and sells it to rich man B for 10million than 5 years later rich man B sells it to rich man C for 20million. Than 5 years later rich man C sells it to rich man A and the whole thing keeps going around and around.

When you hear stories on the news of things selling for crazy prices its because rare art is finite and its a way for people to hold on to their wealth.

[TassieTiger]

Tin prices have plummeted over last 3 years - something I found during research...given tech advance, I would have thought otherwise...

[StraightWhiteMale]

Everyones money is online as well as their title deeds and whatever else. As we all know technology does f*** up. Imagine having cash in the bank and the next day its not there anymore. How are you going to prove anything? Considering we have no Bill of rights in this country and are entitled to nine tenths of f*** all.

[TassieTiger]

Everyones money is online as well as their title deeds and whatever else. As we all know technology does f*** up. Imagine having cash in the bank and the next day its not there anymore. How are you going to prove anything? Considering we have no Bill of rights in this country and are entitled to nine tenths of f*** all.

External to tech f ups...It also happens on purpose. Our wonderful tax ppl took money from my account without telling me they were doing it, as did our wonderful child support ppl. Both were errors on their behalf’s, the two linked together...I was returned the $ in 6 weeks and minor compensation is pending but it doesn’t look good as your right - we don’t have recourse with the way go to has written laws...

[Stoney]

Two more to look into gentlemen is, Platinum. But also more importantly Lithium.

[StraightWhiteMale]

Platnium has always been worth more than gold but its uses are limited and has never been used as money. Rhodium and palladium are going insane at the moment but like platinum they are rarer than gold but their uses are mainly for catalyst converters and they are tied to industry. When the economy tanks they tank.

[TassieTiger]

Platnium has always been worth more than gold but its uses are limited and has never been used as money. Rhodium and palladium are going insane at the moment but like platinum they are rarer than gold but their uses are mainly for catalyst converters and they are tied to industry. When the economy tanks they tank.

So you hear of some countries going through various processes to get gold and the like from tech products, phones, others get radium from gnome detectors, etc - does this scrap also fluctuate in price as a result ? And cat converters have long thought to be land fill - but will rhodium prices allow ppl to develop a recovery process to resell?

[StraightWhiteMale]

So you hear of some countries going through various processes to get gold and the like from tech products, phones, others get radium from gnome detectors, etc - does this scrap also fluctuate in price as a result ? And cat converters have long thought to be land fill - but will rhodium prices allow ppl to develop a recovery process to resell?

People may start stealing cars just to chop the cats off them mate if the price keeps rising.

[wanneroo]

Rio is good, at least they have something that people want and is a physical product. The big problem is all these so called tech companies that are “worth” billions of dollars that offer nothing physical. Their bubble will burst because they are nothing but speculation. Have a look at the worlds richest companies 100 years ago and a lot of them do not even exist anymore. Kodak in the 80s and 90s was a massive company. Now it is nothing because people don't buy film or cameras anymore. The funny thing is Kodak invented the digital camera but they did not have the foresight to adapt to market change.

I'm assuming you have received your return on investment from your buy in at rio so all your dividends are profit. If this is the case than that is great and what you want mate so hold on till the end of days mate.

I bought in during the last big iron ore dip around 4-5 years ago so I have not paid for the investment yet with dividends but like last year RIO had a special dividend that was a substantial chunk of change so at least in a number of years it will have been paid for with dividends. And just checking they announced the other day another good dividend coming up in March so pleased about that.

If I live another 50 years I'll just hold onto it and when we have another metals price crash, which could happen with this coronavirus thing, I'll buy more.

[TassieTiger]

I went to a brokerage firm in about 07/08 to seek their advice, as my wife and I dipped our toes in the water after paying off the house - RIO was $123 and they were adamant it was a blue chip stock that was in for the long term...we lost 80% of our savings. Even today, it’s still “only” $87...

[Sergeant Hartman]

Hmm interesting, just reading up that due to cronavirus share market is down but surprisingly Gold price is down as well. So got me thinking i had a look around and found a graph showing 100 year price trends in Gold. As can be seen, the price slowly drops until it gets a booster and rapidly climbs to a high and then slowly starts it's downwards trajectory.

Screenshot_20200229-171320_Chrome.jpg (581.42 KiB) Viewed 4586 times

[StraightWhiteMale]

Do you blokes know your history? Gold is high when the world is unstable as that graph above even shows. The crash of 1929 and into WW2 gold peaked. Then in 1944-1971 the world was under the Breton Woods system. Which was an agreement between the west to control the monetary system. Which explains the drop in price during this time not to mention owning gold was illegal in the USA at this time. After 1971 the US dollar become fully fiat and that is why gold rose in price because that was the free market stabilising, also the oil crisis of the 1970s. Then after the financial crisis of 2008 gold peaked again. Gold has cooled off a tad these last few days but it is still peaking. Each rise in the price of gold points to a point in history that caused the markets to panic.