LEGISLATED road rules,,,,, ????

[Die Judicii]

I know this is the accepted norm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but

Think about the so called rational behind the following;

According to legislation,,

It is perfectly legal for a motorcyclist to travel down a road (according to signage) at 50kph/60kph/70kph/100kph, or 110 kph whereas said motorcyclist has zero protection other than leathers and a helmet.

But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if an automobile driver is detected driving on the same roads and speed restrictions with all the modern airbag and crumple zone technology that is built in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, without a seat belt at ie; 2 klm per hour,,,,,,, he / she is prosecuted.



Where is the logic,,,,,,,,,, ???????????

[bladeracer]

The logic is that drivers don't have any protective gear, despite helmets saving lives on racetracks in car crashes. I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars, even HANS restraints would be good.

[Die Judicii]

The logic is that drivers don't have any protective gear, despite helmets saving lives on racetracks in car crashes. I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars, even HANS restraints would be good.

Agreed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I'm ignorant,,,,,,, what is HANS ?

[bladeracer]

Head And Neck Restraint.
They're moving to a similar system for bike racing already, I think motocross has used for a while now.

[TassieTiger]

Said motorcycle rider also has In general - a much higher performance vehicle that allows for faster stopping times, incredible “movability” to avoid obstacles / accidents and - I’ll say it - much more skill and awareness then the average car driver...

[Oldbloke]

Said motorcycle rider also has In general - a much higher performance vehicle that allows for faster stopping times, incredible “movability” to avoid obstacles / accidents and - I’ll say it - much more skill and awareness then the average car driver...

Didnt help me when a wanker drove straight through a stop sign doing about 60k.

[Die Judicii]

Said motorcycle rider also has In general - a much higher performance vehicle that allows for faster stopping times, incredible “movability” to avoid obstacles / accidents and - I’ll say it - much more skill and awareness then the average car driver...

Not being predjudicial,,,, but the statistics don't support that.
And, being above the age where I think I'm indestructible , I'm sure I know where and which situation I'd prefer to be in should the sh!t hit the fan.

[bladeracer]

[quote="TassieTiger"Said motorcycle rider also has In general - a much higher performance vehicle that allows for faster stopping times, incredible “movability” to avoid obstacles / accidents and - I’ll say it - much more skill and awareness then the average car driver...[/quote

Not being predjudicial,,,, but the statistics don't support that.
And, being above the age where I think I'm indestructible , I'm sure I know where and which situation I'd prefer to be in should the sh!t hit the fan.

I still feel safer crashing a bike than a car.

[Stix]

I still feel safer crashing a bike than a car.

Surely thats based on you being in control &/or choosing your style of crash...

I cant see anyone choosing to be T-boned or a head on, while on a bike as opposed to being in a car...

[bladeracer]

[quote="bladeracer"
I still feel safer crashing a bike than a car.[/quote

Surely thats based on you being in control &/or choosing your style of crash...

I cant see anyone choosing to be T-boned or a head on, while on a bike as opposed to being in a car...

Yes, that's right, I feel more in control of myself than being trapped in a steel box during a crash. On a bike I have much better situational awareness, in a car I'm isolated from the environment.

[Blr243]

When an officer sees somebody doing 2 mph with no belt on he does not assume that u always do 2mph And he knows that sometimes people do 100 mph ...when u are speeding he does not know if he’s goin to be there to save your life so he wants u to be wearing your seatbelt in case u crash .....giving you u a seatbelt ticket at any speed is a good idea because it encourages u to wear the seatbelt next time ....and that may stoop your noggin from smashing into your windscreen ... I know a bloke who did this ....he no longer breathes , eats, s**ts or plays scrabble

[TassieTiger]

DJ - it’s an undisputed fact that to get a car license in this country you have to vomit out a couple questions and pass sweet bugger all.
To get a Full motorcycle licence you have to attend at least 3 Courses.

The stats are difficult to quantify re accidents. A small accident in a car usually doesn’t involve injury, doesn’t involve police and many times, doesn’t get recorded by insurance - a bike is a bit of a different story. Yes - always going to be one offs...
In my opinion Motorcycle riders make better car drivers - situational awareness is not taught to car drivers but is mandatory to motorcycles.

As a motorcycle trainer in another life - I’ve turned away and failed so many ppl who couldn’t read English - but guess how they got to the courses? Yep - they drive their car...

[JimmyS]

The logic is that drivers don't have any protective gear, despite helmets saving lives on racetracks in car crashes. I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars, even HANS restraints would be good.

Absolute gold.

I thought you were going for a giggle, but you seem serious.

I'll have to start stocking up on bubble wrap now!

[bladeracer]

Yep, I'm serious. For years I have taught my daughter that whatever she does in her life, swim with sharks, hangliding, motocross racing, joining the army, whatever - the most dangerous thing she'll ever do is get in a car on a public road. Head and neck trauma is what kills in car crashes all too often

[Sergeant Hartman]

Hmm good question...i think it's just legislation.

But i take it bike riders don't have a seatbelt. And if you ride without a helmet you would get a fine.

On the other hand i am not sure if many know but if you had an accident in a modern car with air bags and they go off which they can even in a 10kph accident. If you are not wearing seatbelts you can get a pretty big injury just from the explosive deployment of the air bags

[Member-Deleted]

I really don't understand how someone can get in a driver's seat and not automatically put a seat belt on.
It's been trained into me
I'm old enough to remember being in the back seat when there was no seatbelts even fitted, or worse laying down in the station wagon. It was what every kid did and it was the norm.
I feel naked without it.
It's like wearing a helmet and jacket and gloves etc on a bike. I wouldn't get on it without it all on.

I'm my days on the dirtbike I had a Leatt brace, much like a HANS. Didn't stop me from breaking my spine but it's probably the reason I'm still here to tell the tale!

[TassieTiger]

Hmm good question...i think it's just legislation.

But i take it bike riders don't have a seatbelt. And if you ride without a helmet you would get a fine.

On the other hand i am not sure if many know but if you had an accident in a modern car with air bags and they go off which they can even in a 10kph accident. If you are not wearing seatbelts you can get a pretty big injury just from the explosive deployment of the air bags

Z. - I had a 40kmh crash about 18 months ago as the driver, the airbag literally threw my right hand off the wheel and into the drivers side window it shattered. Sheer luck I only suffered minor injuries...broken arm, lacerations, etc. the officer on the scene said - airbag caused more damage than it saved given those particular circumstances.

[Die Judicii]

When an officer sees somebody doing 2 mph with no belt on he does not assume that u always do 2mph And he knows that sometimes people do 100 mph ...when u are speeding he does not know if he’s goin to be there to save your life so he wants u to be wearing your seatbelt in case u crash .....giving you u a seatbelt ticket at any speed is a good idea because it encourages u to wear the seatbelt next time ....and that may stoop your noggin from smashing into your windscreen ... I know a bloke who did this ....he no longer breathes , eats, s**ts or plays scrabble

Mate,,,,, I was only pointing out differences that "seem" illogical when looked at in perspective,,,,,,,, I wasn't intending that you or anyone else
should take it literally.
ie: a hypothetical case.

[Die Judicii]

DJ - it’s an undisputed fact that to get a car license in this country you have to vomit out a couple questions and pass sweet bugger all.
To get a Full motorcycle licence you have to attend at least 3 Courses.

The stats are difficult to quantify re accidents. A small accident in a car usually doesn’t involve injury, doesn’t involve police and many times, doesn’t get recorded by insurance - a bike is a bit of a different story. Yes - always going to be one offs...
In my opinion Motorcycle riders make better car drivers - situational awareness is not taught to car drivers but is mandatory to motorcycles.

As a motorcycle trainer in another life - I’ve turned away and failed so many ppl who couldn’t read English - but guess how they got to the courses? Yep - they drive their car...

So I should be right then,,,,,,, and in a box seat so to say.
I used to ride with one of the clubs during the 70s and into the late 80s
I hold a current motor vehicle license,
And also a current articulated truck license.

[Die Judicii]

I really don't understand how someone can get in a driver's seat and not automatically put a seat belt on.

It's like wearing a helmet and jacket and gloves etc on a bike. I wouldn't get on it without it all on.!

Agreed Mate,,,,,,,,,,,, It makes me shudder these days when I get passed by a motorcyclist who is wearing a helmet but then only shorts, T shirt (maybe) and thongs.

I always get a mental picture of him being scraped up and piled onto a big styrene foam tray with a label that says "Woolies Mince Meat"

[Stix]

When an officer sees somebody doing 2 mph with no belt on he does not assume that u always do 2mph And he knows that sometimes people do 100 mph ...

Haha...!!!...
BLR... You just gave me what i call, "age shivers"...

You reminded me how i once managed, with the help of a little long gentle 'down hill-ness', to get my 192/mild cam/M-20 boxed/3:36 diff'd powered EH Wagon up to the full tonne...yup...the big100mph... ....

Yep...if you've ever seen the speedo on an EH & know how quick a bored out 186 redlines,, you'll know it takes a good deal of sustained "i think i can...i think i can.....( ) to get there...


When it finally hit the mild undulation in the bridge heading south on the Londsdale freeway in the southern burbs of Adel, i had my fiirst concious episode of denial...

My permanent late teens boner lliterally let out its own audible shreak of "i want my mummy", & if for what ever reason id have had an 18mm high tensile reo rod jammed up my clacker, my sphincter would'vee sheared it off without a burr...!!!!

It occurred to me that I infact wasnt the driver i thought i was...i did indeed have to upgrade the springs & fork out the coin for that big fat front end sway bar...& i AM about to die...!!!

lmao...

Shivers i tell ya...
I just had shivers...!!!

[TassieTiger]

I think in some countries (Italy? Spain?,) - it’s mandatory to spend 12 months on a bike before applying for a car licence - and then all car drivers have to revisit that law at year 10. As you’d know, driving a car when your a motorcyclist makes you more aware of motorcycles...win win.

[targetshooter900]

I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars.

This is a joke right. LMAO

[bladeracer]

I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars.

This is a joke right. LMAO

Not that I can see, what do you find funny about the idea?

[Stix]

I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars.

This is a joke right. LMAO

Not that I can see, what do you find funny about the idea?

Well, with respect...while i appreciate the motives behind the thought, i too find it a joke...

An idea like this in the hands of the Govt wont be about safety, it will purely be about convincing citizens they are too stupid to think for themselves, & so we'll add in another entire lot of 3 teir legislation, regs & administration, along with exorbidant expiation structure to fund the totalitarian style of law enforcing (not to mention, poorly run, exorbitantly priced, outsourced administration), & all for saving, well, maybe, 5-10 lives a year...AT BEST...!!...? ...

...NO...!!...all because we can, & we need to exploit another way to generate further funds to cover & justify our inadequate ability to Govern in such a way as to "be there for the people," rather than use Governing as a means to be there for our individual egos.

To put it another way, an idea like this will be just like the "Save the river Murray levvy" we have here in SA...not a cent will go the cause...it will be purely a boost to financing the already over zealous ego run budget, & be bumped up every time the ALP gain power to help lower the unemployment stats by way of funding more unnecessary "public service" jobs.

Sorry to be a stick in the mud...err...i mean a realist....

[bladeracer]

I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars.

This is a joke right. LMAO

Not that I can see, what do you find funny about the idea?

Well, with respect...while i appreciate the motives behind the thought, i too find it a joke...

An idea like this in the hands of the Govt wont be about safety, it will purely be about convincing citizens they are too stupid to think for themselves, & so we'll add in another entire lot of 3 teir legislation, regs & administration, along with exorbidant expiation structure to fund the totalitarian style of law enforcing (not to mention, poorly run, exorbitantly priced, outsourced administration), & all for saving, well, maybe, 5-10 lives a year...AT BEST...!!...? ...

...NO...!!...all because we can, & we need to exploit another way to generate further funds to cover & justify our inadequate ability to Govern in such a way as to "be there for the people," rather than use Governing as a means to be there for our individual egos.

To put it another way, an idea like this will be just like the "Save the river Murray levvy" we have here in SA...not a cent will go the cause...it will be purely a boost to financing the already over zealous ego run budget, & be bumped up every time the ALP gain power to help lower the unemployment stats by way of funding more unnecessary "public service" jobs.

Sorry to be a stick in the mud...err...i mean a realist....

I agree with you, helmets should not be mandatory, it should be personal choice based on being offered as much information as possible on which to make your own decisions. I always wore full race leather on a bike, I wouldn't be pushing for it to be mandatory. But it has to be remembered that we have Medicare for all, so morons that suffer brain injuries due to their poor choices are a burden on all taxpayers.

[TassieTiger]

If govt was 100% serious about road toll - why do even basic family vehicles have the capability of reaching over 200kmh? In this day and age - a chipset could easily limit vehicles to say 120 kmh and further - why do family cars need 0-100 performance? Why aren’t diff Ratios insanely high for economy based performance ?
Well, I think it’s Because - speeding fines are such a huge contribution to coffers...
Yep it would be easy to circumvent a chipset but shet you’d stand out...even further - why don’t modern cars have gps based speed zone limiting, meaning your car oils to do 50 in a 40 zone during school and crap like that - it is pocket change in $$...

[Stix]

I personally would not be against drivers and passengers having to wear helmets in cars.

This is a joke right. LMAO

Not that I can see, what do you find funny about the idea?

Well, with respect...while i appreciate the motives behind the thought, i too find it a joke...

An idea like this in the hands of the Govt wont be about safety, it will purely be about convincing citizens they are too stupid to think for themselves, & so we'll add in another entire lot of 3 teir legislation, regs & administration, along with exorbidant expiation structure to fund the totalitarian style of law enforcing (not to mention, poorly run, exorbitantly priced, outsourced administration), & all for saving, well, maybe, 5-10 lives a year...AT BEST...!!...? ...

...NO...!!...all because we can, & we need to exploit another way to generate further funds to cover & justify our inadequate ability to Govern in such a way as to "be there for the people," rather than use Governing as a means to be there for our individual egos.

To put it another way, an idea like this will be just like the "Save the river Murray levvy" we have here in SA...not a cent will go the cause...it will be purely a boost to financing the already over zealous ego run budget, & be bumped up every time the ALP gain power to help lower the unemployment stats by way of funding more unnecessary "public service" jobs.

Sorry to be a stick in the mud...err...i mean a realist....

Blade said I agree with you, helmets should not be mandatory, it should be personal choice based on being offered as much information as possible on which to make your own decisions. I always wore full race leather on a bike, I wouldn't be pushing for it to be mandatory. But it has to be remembered that we have Medicare for all, so morons that suffer brain injuries due to their poor choices are a burden on all taxpayers.[/quote]

Blade...i think that is a fault of the legal side of things...

So i think you are right, in that it shouldnt be a bill for the tax payer, it should be a mandated thing that is balanced & mitigated in the judicial system...

But we need for things to be transparent here...
Like that of the old adage with smokers...

One of the reasons we are seeing such pressures on the medicare system is due to the lack of smokers we see every day...
It was once frowned upon (still is) to be a smoker & receive free medical treatment, but the average non-smoking punter didnt/doesnt realise its the smokers paying exorbidant tax that pays for the medical bills of the fat sugar loving diabetic obese food lover that refuses to do anything about their own impulse control...& Mcdonalds & Hungry's pay little tax & hold no responsibility...

Transparency & rightful laws accross the board is what we lack...

Sorry...bit ranty & way off kilter there...

[Member-Deleted]

If govt was 100% serious about road toll - why do even basic family vehicles have the capability of reaching over 200kmh? In this day and age - a chipset could easily limit vehicles to say 120 kmh and further - why do family cars need 0-100 performance? Why aren’t diff Ratios insanely high for economy based performance ?
Well, I think it’s Because - speeding fines are such a huge contribution to coffers...
Yep it would be easy to circumvent a chipset but shet you’d stand out...even further - why don’t modern cars have gps based speed zone limiting, meaning your car oils to do 50 in a 40 zone during school and crap like that - it is pocket change in $$...

This will happen in the future...

And you will be the first to scream blue murder.

I predict there will then be a thread about it on EG... and it will turn to s**t

[TassieTiger]

If govt was 100% serious about road toll - why do even basic family vehicles have the capability of reaching over 200kmh? In this day and age - a chipset could easily limit vehicles to say 120 kmh and further - why do family cars need 0-100 performance? Why aren’t diff Ratios insanely high for economy based performance ?
Well, I think it’s Because - speeding fines are such a huge contribution to coffers...
Yep it would be easy to circumvent a chipset but shet you’d stand out...even further - why don’t modern cars have gps based speed zone limiting, meaning your car oils to do 50 in a 40 zone during school and crap like that - it is pocket change in $$...

This will happen in the future...

And you will be the first to scream blue murder.

I predict there will then be a thread about it on EG... and it will turn to s**t

Yes, I will be screaming blue murder - as you apparently and quite happily It appears, bend over and enjoy it all the way home from your govt friends lol. I’m going to guess you’d get on well with uncle Kim Jong.
See you in the slow lane lol.