Hagling on Firearms

[CAVEMAN]

Just looking for anyone elses view on Hagling on price with there LGS or any for that reason when purchasing a new firearm or other expensive piece from them.

Personally i see it the same as buying a car or piece of white goods, and ask what could the salesman do for me on larger purchases. But then the smaller tit bits you just walk in and pay the sticker price.

Where does anyone else sit on the subject?

[Sergeant Hartman]

Problem is in Australia they make around 10% on a firearm. On ammo and some other bits and pieces they can make 20-30% profit. Unless they pickup a special and decide to pass it on or hoping the customer buys other stuff to then make their money.

I do try haggling but not many do... they might consider price matching another local dealer

[Ziege]

Problem is in Australia they make around 10% on a firearm. On ammo and some other bits and pieces they can make 20-30% profit. Unless they pickup a special and decide to pass it on or hoping the customer buys other stuff to then make their money.

I do try haggling but not many do... they might consider price matching another local dealer

10% you're kidding me right?

Haggle all day, it's your money and you should be as frugal as possible, the why just give it away for the sake of it???

Three lgs near me, howa barreled action at one $695, another $1150 and at another $1220

Who is making 10%? One is nearly half the price of the others and for what reason? None, aside form mongs pay it.

[marksman]

it does not hurt to try
although you will find some dealers get the sh!ts if you say someone else has a better deal
its business and is part of it

[TassieTiger]

Depends on your relationship with dealer as well...I’ll pay more at local dealers because I know I’ll need advice / help later and local economy benefits.

My recent NF scope purchase - I found best online deal, showed it to dealer and said get close and I’ll buy it - it took them 30 minutes of phone calls and they asked me to cover their postage as they were making nothing - but they went to the effort, so I bought from them and now I’ll buy mounts and rings on pick up.
Other times I’ve not haggled on price Of a rifle - I’ll pick up a bag or something and say / ya know that rifle I just bought and we didn’t discuss any movement on price, well it needs a bed, oh look - here’s one, what do ya reckon ? Or things like that - make it a bit of fun and banter...most catch on pretty quick and it becomes a game.

[Oldbloke]

it does not hurt to try
although you will find some dealers get the sh!ts if you say someone else has a better deal
its business and is part of it

Yep +1

[bladeracer]

Just looking for anyone elses view on Hagling on price with there LGS or any for that reason when purchasing a new firearm or other expensive piece from them.

Personally i see it the same as buying a car or piece of white goods, and ask what could the salesman do for me on larger purchases. But then the smaller tit bits you just walk in and pay the sticker price.

Where does anyone else sit on the subject?

I've never haggled on prices, but my dealer told me many times that I was a rare exception to the norm. People trying to talk him down on everything was a primary reason why he got out of the business, so all those people no longer have a dealer in their town. Was what they saved worth the added cost of now having to travel further when they need ammo? I never even asked for prices of new firearms, I just ordered them, knowing they'd be in the vicinity of what other dealers were advertising them for.

Because I wasn't a haggler, he did offer me some hard to resist deals when he was able to, and very likely saved me more money overall than if I had been one of his hagglers. But I've always been self-employed, so I figure he's put a price on something because that's the profit he wants to make out of it. If I don't think it's a fair price, that's my problem, not his. I can look elsewhere for the item, he's stuck with what he has and what it cost him. When I was looking at lever rifles, I decided on the Henry 001Y and Rossi 16" .357 but I looked at what he had already on the shelf before ordering them, and grabbed the Norinco JW21 and Marlin 1894 in .44Mag instead. Now I also have both of the rifles I originally wanted, and I think the Norinco and Marlin are better rifles than the Henry and Rossi.

When I was again hunting for a .357 lever, and nobody had any stock, he made a call to a customer that did Cowboy Action, asking if he knew of anything around. He didn't, but they were looking to sell the wife's Uberti in .38 Special if it helped. He organized for him to bring it into the shop the following day and I went in and had a look at it. The owner wanted $1000, which I thought was a great price, and offered my man $200 on top for his part, which he refused. In fact, I wanted brass as I only had .357 brass, but he didn't have any, so he sold me 100rds of ammo for brass price.

When I imported two rifles, my dealer had to drive to Melbourne and back (five hours on the road) to collect them for me from Border Force, before opening the shop. I had set aside $500 for his time, but he refused to take anything at all. He used the trip to collect ammo and powders while he was up there.

Sometimes a loyal relationship with your dealer is worth a lot more than than what you might save in haggling.

[Die Judicii]

I used to haggle ALL the time but not so much nowadays because of the following,,,,,,

a) I have found that the friendlier the LGS staff/manager is,,,,, the more they charge and once I cottoned on to that my outlooks changed.

b) So now I always,, always,, shop around before making any commitment (the price variations are often staggering)

c) So now,,,, I do the above, and pick the best option for me. The shops that I frequent have more or less worked that out as several of them have asked
"Oh,,,, do you still want that scope/rifle/ etc,,,, and I reply No thanks,, you were way too outside the ball park on your price,,,,, so I bought it at Blah Blah.
As a result, they think sh!t,,,,, we missed that sale,,,,, and now they either offer me a good price/deal to start with. (but end result is that I still shop around)

d) Some of them try hard to give you a good deal,, but others just price gouge,, smile and act like your best Mate, but will still stab you in the back.

e) They know now that if they are being greedy,,,,,,,,,,, they don't make the cash register ching. That quickly brings about a flatter playing field.

[Harrynsw]

I have a bit to say here. Firearms and scopes are not cheap. Im lucky to have have a few stores nearby, each one 15 minutes away, which is convenient for bits and bobs when required. Only one though is a "Tier 1" store (for lack of a better term). The next Tier 1 store is about an hour away.
The best iv been able to achieve is a price match with the proof, and if they don't want to budge it becomes a question of cost versus travel. Now i dont even have the energy to go through the verbal exchange, the whole thing, them looking at you like you're a cheap ass. Screw you, if you don't want my money, i just jump in the car and drive an hour to get the price I want without any resistance. Unless you ask, some stores are happy to charge the maximum they can charge you regardless of your loyalty.
Some people are happy to hand over their hard earned money with out question, and if you want something there and then, well bad luck, others feels cornered into a decision when it's their first purchase and succumb to the pressure at the counter.
A penny saved is a penny earned.

[Sergeant Hartman]

it does not hurt to try
although you will find some dealers get the sh!ts if you say someone else has a better deal
its business and is part of it

Yep +1

Actually come to think of it, they don't like being told that.

[Aliqua]

I value their knowledge and willingness to help. While there is no price in help I think it's a given that they're rewarded should they go the extra mile... not to mention the convenience of having a local shop and good fellas behind the counter. They gave me what I thought was a great price on a gun, so I didnt haggle. I bought 5 boxes of ammo and without saying anything one of the boxes was free and so was the ammo box.

Next thing you know I'm back to the same shop without hesitation and they sold me a scope at full rrp (on the day the prices were meant to go up) for the pre-rise price. They were on the phone to the rep who authorised the sale at the pre-rise price. I got the rings and the scope caps and all my cleaning stuff and even my rests and each item had a little taken off...

Moral of the story. Show loyality and create rapport and they will do what they can where they can.

I'll never shop anywhere else for my ammo or any accessories I need now and I wont question the prices unless it seems to be considerably higher than what I may have researched prior - taking into consideration that many shop fronts will be slightly more expensive than online due to overheads such as rent and/or staff wages.

--

Side note - in times like this its important to support local business. If we ALL take away their profits... they close (generalisating).

They also have a guaranteed advocate for their store in me should I come across anyone else interested in shooting.

Update: it all comes down to the individual and what they believe something is worth - product regardless of assistance, product including assistance, online vs offline, or an old store vs a new store trying to make a name for itself (so many scenarios just to name a few). Nobody who replies in this thread is wrong. But there is no harm in asking. The worst they can say is no... haha!

[Oldbloke]

The way I look at it is if your job was a buyer for x company you would be expected t o get 3 quotes.
So thats what i do. Always make 2 or 3 calls. And if i still think its expensive haggle.

For example i recently bought a rifle rest, a low priced brand but seems ok. Cost $50 with small sand bag.
2 other shops were $99 and $110 from memory and he wanted extra $20 for the sand bag!

[Die Judicii]

I wont question the prices unless it seems to be considerably higher than what I may have researched prior -

--

Side note - in times like this its important to support local business. If we ALL take away their profits... they close (generalisating).

Fair enough
It's the ones that go overboard with their prices/profit margins that deserve to get beaten down or passed up on a sale.

Depending on the product,, the margins vary greatly.
I was at one time looking into taking on an agency with industrial coatings/paint etc.
I was told at that time, that the normally accepted markup on house paint was in excess of 100%

I don't have up to date figures now, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if quite a few things have similar type markups today.

[Sergeant Hartman]

10% you're kidding me right?

Haggle all day, it's your money and you should be as frugal as possible, the why just give it away for the sake of it???

Three lgs near me, howa barreled action at one $695, another $1150 and at another $1220

Who is making 10%? One is nearly half the price of the others and for what reason? None, aside form mongs pay it.

Maybe i need to explain it a bit better. I have bought all my rifles and most of my reloading gear etc from one shop. And have a good relationship with them. So while a few times while they are looking up availability of a gun i get to see the dealer portal prices.

While i do my research beforehand and i might jokingly mention another shops prices, its more in that see what you can do, once they give me a price that's it i don't haggle anymore.

After marksman post i do remember one instance where i went in and they were grumpy cuz a guy (first time through) who had walked in was trying to haggle on one box of ammo.... or 4/5 bucks, so they told him go drive to the shop on other side of Melbourne.

So as aliquia said, find a good shop, develop a relationship and be a regular customer, look after them and they will look after you.... ofcourse some shops/reps are just bad and greedy.

In regards to that shop selling how's real cheap. Mate outs well known... all over Australia that they gray import the rifles and projectiles from US themselves. Also as they sell a lot they will get preferential prices from wholesalers. And that's why they sell howa for 399.... while every other shop sells for 1k. The wholesalers are making the profit.

Have a look at the prices the AUD went from 66c to 60c.... the prices went up..... its now back to 65c.... the prices from wholesalers haven't dropped.

[Peter988]

Some dealers shoot themselves in the foot though (excuse the pun). My local has a particular firearm rest listed at $135. Same rest in the big Brisbane shop is $75. I don’t haggle. I just don’t go to him any more.

[Aliqua]

There is also huge waiting times in customs for firearms and accessories so while the dollar may fluctuate sometimes stock get stuck in customs for weeks and sometimes months awaiting clearance - so if it was bought at 60c:dollar and the current price is 65c:dollar we are still paying for stock at the rate they purchased. On the reverse that is why we got good prices on things when the dollar dropped because the stock was purchased at better prices. One would be silly to think that they dont use this to their advantage in the short term but overall they keep it relative.

In addition to that, some reps will move sales around their various stores to enable sales, to help promote the moving of stock. Eg: shop one will get a cheaper price as a reward for certain sales and therefore they can have a one-up on the other stores, etc. That is just normal practice. If you see a large gap between two stores, there is a chance that one store has a better cost price over the others for a period of time.

Like SH said, I've seen the cost price sheet for the nightforce scopes when I bought it, and he said openly, they only make 15% on them... And that is why he called to get the old price etc. The shop owner might also have a rebate system in place (where they get credits after the sale to put toward next orders, or simply money back in the business account), but that is outside of the knowledge of most floor sale staff and no business owner would (or should) offer those rebates as discounts to the public.

Like I said, it can't hurt to ask...

[marksman]

but do you get a coffee and choccy biscuit like l do Aliqua
l even go hunting with a couple of shop owner dealers at times

my gunsmith loves it when l arrive with a few bags of fresh sea fish for him, being from the country, especially flathead

it all works out but some are just a business of sheep in wolves clothing and the buyer needs to be aware
and not just about what you are buying, some of the advice given from gunshops is only to sell product
bad advise may be what the person has heard and has no experience
there is a lot of snake oil potions out there

[TassieTiger]

^ that’s what most Tas shops are like (across the board). Relationships are more personal and you don’t generally get that in the big cities.

[Aliqua]

You are completely right marksman and I think that's why doing some research into the products is ideal too.

I walked in wanting a rem 700 pcr and walked out with a browning xbolt... did some quick research and thought "you know what, they sold me the right gun"... but it's not always that case. When I was young I worked in retail and the boss always said "push this product, there is more profit in it..." so I cant disagree with you

[AussieCapitalist]

I hate haggling. That's why I hate shopping in those poor Asian countries where everything is negotiable. If I like the price I will pay, if not I will go to another merchant without saying a word.

[Shootermick]

I’ve never been much of a haggler. But I have started to shop around a bit more than I used to, there can be big differences in prices between shops. I was very loyal to one particular shop for a long time, but I paid through the nose too many times. I’ll go back there every so often, but it’s not my one stop shop that it once was.

[JimTom]

Mate I do try and support my local as much as I can, sometimes paying a bit more, just to help ensure they stay open. I will allow a $50 premium on the item, then the $50 it would cost me to get it up from Brisbane. So if the LGS gets close to that I support him. Sometimes they are just way off and you just can’t support that. I generally don’t haggle, although once or twice I have suggested that they are a bit steep, and they will come down for me. I don’t enjoy haggling so if I can save good coin by buying in bulk from Brissy I do.

[SAnewb85]

Its a vicious cycle. (In all shops, not just guns)
The more you haggle/buy cheap stuff online the more profit the shops have to try and gouge from each individual sale in order to keep the doors open.

As other have suggested, its one thing to pay for convenience and instant access to your items but quite another to be blatantly taken advantage of.

I bought a spika sch1 safe last week, first time ever in a proper gun shop, didn't haggle, was happy with the price as compared to others id seen online and had a quick chat with the staff.
I probably won't go back there as its over an hour from my home and the staff didn't really make any extra effort to ask me anything about my shooting needs, which I think was either laziness or rudeness.

Surely its as important for staff to build rapport with their customers as it is for a customer to build rapport with the staff.......

[Die Judicii]

In the case of "Law",,,,,,,,, this is against most shooters.
If the law was changed on the posting of ammo,,, I think that would take a few humps out of the playing field.

[simmo]

I try spread my dollar around where I can because a viable industry is in everyone’s interest. Also haggling is not an overly accepted part of this country’s culture so why bring it and impose on on business that is already operating in a difficult industry?

That said, I frequent my LGS often and pretty much spend money in there every time I walk through the door; usually walk out with a jug of powder, projectiles or I get or some primers. I also buy what amounts to a rifle every year from them.

The fact is you usually get better deal from a Bigger (leave unnamed) retailer online but supporting a local retailer run some by really good blokes means that you can have a chat and get advice if needed. I have also found having somewhere, locally, to handle, look at and play with things like scopes, rifles and rests before dropping a pile of cash on something is a service in itself I’m happy to support.

Like others here at there respective LGS, I have been given great service and a lot of great deals and generosity when making purchases because of this loyalty.

I suppose I value a local business and having a viable firearms sector to support my passion.

[Rwd22]

I shop around for things and when I find a saving that is considerable, I will go to the cheaper place. In my case I frequent two dealers, one is a big name with very close to wholesale pricing, this is their business model, sell lots with minimal margin, customer in-customer out.

The other store, which is generally a little more pricey, offers me far better service every day of the week and does look after me on things, a lot of the time without me even having to ask, that is based on a relationship built by not walking in there and trying to get every dollars worth everytime. At the end of the day, I don't haggle with people on pricing, I simply shop where it's cheaper if those savings are warranted. The difference for me is a 10 minute drive to the local dealer or an hour drive plus tolls to the cheaper place.

It's also very handy to know what alliances certain dealers have, whether they direct import or whether they're paying an Australian wholesalers price to start with before the product even hits their store.

Everyone has their own quirks, for me I'm a reasonable guy and when I sell something, it's at a fair price from the get-go. Being haggled with leaves a bad taste in your mouth at times, enough to want to price gouge the next time.

[Bill]

Smart dealers know their place in the supply chain and if that means using a secondary importer then they get the smart money.

Distributors who force shops to retail their wares at inflated prices dont get my money.

I'm a firm believer that competition is good for everyone.

[bladeracer]

In the case of "Law",,,,,,,,, this is against most shooters.
If the law was changed on the posting of ammo,,, I think that would take a few humps out of the playing field.

I get ammo posted down from Brisbane at a very good price, probably not much more than getting the same weight of anything else sent. 25kg of ammo for $60 delivery to country Victoria.

Powder is a problem though, nobody can freight that nowadays.

[marksman]

went to the LGS yesterday to find that one of our biggest distributors wont deal with them anymore because they dont sell enough ammo

how farken rude

[firstguns]

I hate haggling. That's why I hate shopping in those poor Asian countries where everything is negotiable. If I like the price I will pay, if not I will go to another merchant without saying a word.

+1 - I bloody hate haggling. Especially when you're in Bali or whatever and you know you're paying 3x the local price, but you realise if you get fighting about it, you're really only saving a buck or two Aus, and it takes the whole point of haggling away.

I've often wondered what the advantage would be in a 'no haggling' car dealer. Still move your prices along the month, like regular car dealers do, but just be upfront about it. "If you buy the Forester today, I can do 2k better than sticker price". Sure, you'll always be slightly more expensive than the 'best' price an aggressive haggler could get at another dealer, but for 90% of people you'll be the better fit, and presumably move more stock as a result.

On local gun stores tho, my LGS haggled for me - I was putting together a bunch of stuff and asked "and what was the price difference?" between two scopes I was looking at. Guy gave me the stickers and then said "I could probably do $30 better on the more expensive one", plus threw in the rings at half price. Haven't shopped anywhere else since, even for things like knives where I know I'm probably paying a couple bucks too much. Their advice and time is worth the couple bucks as far as I'm concerned.