Another thread vanishes

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Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jul 2020, 1:57 am

Why has yet another thread vanished into thin air ? Cv19 in vic thread has now been the next casualty - without notice...the entire thread...gone. I don’t understand - why bother having a an off topic / general conversation area if it’s going to be censored more heavily than Beijing?
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jul 2020, 3:27 am

Same thing with the thread I posted about the Greens vandalising statues.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by womble » 04 Jul 2020, 3:29 am

Perhaps a visit to our re-education camp on the great mainland of mother China will help you understand.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Bill » 04 Jul 2020, 6:48 am

I guess the behaviour of certain members fell below the standards that are expected on this site.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Bugman » 04 Jul 2020, 8:23 am

Bill wrote:I guess the behaviour of certain members fell below the standards that are expected on this site.

I guess if my standards went any lower I'd have to dig a hole for myself.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Jul 2020, 8:23 am

Bill wrote:I guess the behaviour of certain members fell below the standards that are expected on this site.



^^^^ that
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 04 Jul 2020, 8:50 am

TassieTiger wrote:I don’t understand - why bother having a an off topic / general conversation area if it’s going to be censored more heavily than Beijing?


'Off topic' does not mean a free-for-all, and the usual rules apply.

I'm not sure why that would come as a surprise.

Topics will be removed if inappropriate for the forum, or if a particular conversation is doing more harm than good.

This has previously been covered here - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13282
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 04 Jul 2020, 8:53 am

Bill wrote:I guess the behaviour of certain members fell below the standards that are expected on this site.


Correct.

For the 3rd time in a couple of cases, so some permanent holidays were granted.

Only a few antagonists remain, it seems. How long they do is up to them.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jul 2020, 9:04 am

It’s come as a surprise because Covid in Victoria was a current event and very much relevant for a social discussion.
It Appears certain people are allowed to express their views in such threads, but others...not so much, and if those certain ppl appear wrongly done by - thread disappears.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by SAnewb85 » 04 Jul 2020, 9:09 am

Most forums are great places to research and discuss things as long as you toe the line.

The problem comes where some people push their luck or when the moderators get a little ban happy if they disagree with your opinion.

Have seen it many times where an admin takes a dislike to a person and uses their tenuous "power" to further a personal agenda.

**not saying thats what's happened here**
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Harrynsw » 04 Jul 2020, 9:54 am

Post removed.
Last edited by Blackened on 04 Jul 2020, 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: This topic has nothing to with Facebook censorship.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 04 Jul 2020, 11:19 am

TassieTiger wrote:It’s come as a surprise because Covid in Victoria was a current event and very much relevant for a social discussion.
It Appears certain people are allowed to express their views in such threads, but others...not so much, and if those certain ppl appear wrongly done by - thread disappears.


It is relevant, however, you're plainly omitting other issues that were present in that topic.

A conversation about COVID would be fine.

A conversation.

  • Not pointless argumentative posts.
  • Not baiting other members.
  • Not replying only to make a personal jab.
  • Not repeating the same things over and over in an attempt to badger or harass others into agreeing with you.
  • Not insulting people for their views.
  • Not swearing at, and abusing people.
  • Not carrying personal grudges from topic to topic.
  • Not reviving and continuing examples of the above from posts that have already been moderated/edited/deleted.

For reasons beyond my ability to comprehend, some people are seemingly unable to encounter disagreement without resorting to one or more of the responses listed above.

As is covered in the linked 'Off topic forum rules and appropriate content' topic, some topics are more prone to eliciting this than others, as was apparently the case here.

Some may say that the type of responses listed above should be allowed free reign on the basis that people should have a thick skin. This is not a philosophy we subscribe to here. We expect a certain level of maturity and restraint. If a member disagrees with this concept, this is not the forum for them.

As I have said before:

Have your say, voice your opinion, if people don't agree with you get over it.

If you've got nothing fresh to add, move onto another topic.


As for "certain people" and "other people" receiving different treatment, this is simply false. There are no favorites here. I can't even think of who you're alluding to here, to be honest.

Any supposed favoritism/discrimination is, to be blunt, your own perception. All topics/posts are treated equally here, regardless of what came before, or who authored them. If a particular member has had multiple topics/posts removed, this is due solely to the inappropriate nature of that specific content for this forum, and not, as people frequently feel, as a personal attack.

Finally, regarding any of the issues listed above, the report functionality exists to bring these things to moderator attention promptly, before things escalate. I suggest members use it, particularly topic authors themselves, to keep their topics on track. If members opt not to use the tools provided to keep things running smoothly, then they will have to be satisfied with a potentially escalated response at a later time.

I'm pleased to say we have many exemplary members on this forum, who beyond conducting themselves in a considered and mature fashion often go out of their way to try and steer topics back on course and defuse arguments. Unfortunately, we also have a few to act contrary to this, these will be handled as per the documented forum rules, and terms & conditions.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jul 2020, 1:49 pm

Blackened - I agree with 99% of exactly what you’ve said above - but surely, you have to concur that in this day and age, in a political / off topic arena, things will get said that fall into a grey area...as you yourself have quoted above, have your say, if ppl don’t agree then get over it. This statement in itself leads to exactly whAt happened in the covid thread - 2 ppl having their say...
I envision this board no different to being in a pub having a beer with like minded ppl - that includes stirring and rib digging, as is the Aust way, I’ll put my hand up that at time’s I and some others, prob cross a line and if we’ were in that pub, then members would tell me / others to wind it back a bit - not delete the entire pub lol.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by milnops » 04 Jul 2020, 5:01 pm

I’d rather online forums left out the off topic sections and let the forum focus on what they were made for.

Leave the conspiracy theories, politics, utter crap some people come up with to Facebook and the like.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by marksman » 04 Jul 2020, 5:22 pm

well, since we seem to be having a D&M :lol: while this is still up

and now that l have been outed :roll:

l was just thinking and why bloody not ;)

what l have seen is that a couple who stir sh!t and bait have been removed and the forum has become a friendlier place because of it :thumbsup:
but as you say Blackened "Only a few antagonists remain, it seems. How long they do is up to them"

behind the scenes there has been a few of us who talk about certain things and happenings
eg... members who rile and needle other members just because, one l could name hounds at least three different members that l have seen
there is a double standard with some who if you disagree you have offended :lol: its ok for them to have an opinion but you can't if it does not fit in with them
it has been mentioned in a few threads of late "here we go another thread is going to be shut down" because a certain member baits at a thread to get reactions that cause the thread to be shut down, l'm sure you see this and take it into consideration
usually when a thread is going to be deleted we know because a certain member goes very very quiet shhhh :lol: and then its gone, there's a joke about it

l'm very happy to follow your advice "Have your say, voice your opinion, if people don't agree with you get over it"
but that does mean l can have an opinion the same as everyone else, who l am very happy to disagree with :allegedly: :sarcasm:

lastly l would like to know if we can get an axe grinding emoji, it would be much appreciated thanks for your time :drinks:
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jul 2020, 6:25 pm

That’s what I was thinking MM - an emoji or a “safe” word where if ppl are getting rubbed too far - they can call enough and that’s it...at present, I treat everyone as if they can take it - clearly some csnt, and that’s fine too - but don’t know where line is...
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by marksman » 04 Jul 2020, 8:44 pm

TassieTiger wrote:That’s what I was thinking MM - an emoji or a “safe” word where if ppl are getting rubbed too far - they can call enough and that’s it...at present, I treat everyone as if they can take it - clearly some csnt, and that’s fine too - but don’t know where line is...


IMHO you should be able to "treat everyone as if they can take it" :shock:

to be fair and reasonable l do not see you as a person who rubs anyone too far at all, you are not full of it and speak the truth :thumbsup:
you are not insulting members but a couple are insulted when you point out there behaviours :lol:

l think a "safe" word or emoji may backfire mate,
if someone is offended, man up and pm the person and sort it out, or not, try and see their perspective, if possible, if not move on and get over it :drinks:

an axe grinding emoji would be pretty funny though Blackened :thumbsup:
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by straightshooter » 05 Jul 2020, 7:17 am

It would appear that there is less than a gnat's whisker of separation between normal blokey 'robust discussion' and triggering offence in snowflakes and other feeble minded people.

But remember that we are all guests on this forum and as guests we are obliged to comply with our hosts wishes.

By the same token our host risks defeating the goal of visitation of this forum by imposing sometimes what may appear arbitrary and unpalatable rules to appease the latter stated class of people, who as likely as not won't ever contribute anything worthwhile to a forum such as this.

And I suppose there is always official surveillance and potential defamation lurking somewhere in the background waiting to pounce.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Jul 2020, 9:16 am

marksman wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:That’s what I was thinking MM - an emoji or a “safe” word where if ppl are getting rubbed too far - they can call enough and that’s it...at present, I treat everyone as if they can take it - clearly some csnt, and that’s fine too - but don’t know where line is...


IMHO you should be able to "treat everyone as if they can take it" :shock:

to be fair and reasonable l do not see you as a person who rubs anyone too far at all, you are not full of it and speak the truth :thumbsup:
you are not insulting members but a couple are insulted when you point out there behaviours :lol:

l think a "safe" word or emoji may backfire mate,
if someone is offended, man up and pm the person and sort it out, or not, try and see their perspective, if possible, if not move on and get over it :drinks:

an axe grinding emoji would be pretty funny though Blackened :thumbsup: and maybe some womens clothes for womble :lol: :clap:


Fair call. Appreciate it. :drinks:
We have lost some good members and some good “snowflakes” and...some very informative threads.

Whilst we are most definitely guests of the host - without “guests”, there is no EG forum...I’ve had several emails from members who have gone elsewhere. It’s a balance I know...maybe PC is inadvertently impacting more than ppl realise...
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Bill » 05 Jul 2020, 9:41 am

I think overall the moderators strike the right balance. :thumbsup:

Being informative can be done politely without the agro, a bit of cheek should be welcome but overall when things just turn into a rant we are all poorer for it.

This is nothing about being PC tassie tiger and I see more good members turning up then spiteful ones leaving.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Jul 2020, 10:45 am

Bill wrote:I think overall the moderators strike the right balance. :thumbsup:

Being informative can be done politely without the agro, a bit of cheek should be welcome but overall when things just turn into a rant we are all poorer for it.

This is nothing about being PC tassie tiger and I see more good members turning up then spiteful ones leaving.


You’ve highlighted the actual issue though - agro is subjective...politeness is subjective... “a bit of cheek” ? Wtf is that ? A bit of cheek to me, offends you - then what ?
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by wanneroo » 05 Jul 2020, 1:25 pm

I've been around forums for a long time, back to the 1990s, so I have seen plenty, forums rise, peak, crash, implode, disappear. I belong to a few that have been around a long time and do a consistent business of traffic.

One thing you can't have is people that immediately flip to a personal attack anytime something is posted that conflicts with their opinion or what they do. Ultimately that's poison to a forum over the short term and long term. If people are not having fun and enjoying themselves, they punch out. On the other hand, the mods have to walk the line of letting good natured banter flow and if they do people will post informative and interesting things worth reading and there will be good conversation.

I have seen recently a few threads where I see people go full on personal attack and ignore the topic and personally I don't get it. There isn't anything online worth getting the panties in a twist about. I guess the old saying goes if you are not willing to say something to someone's face, don't post it online.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Jul 2020, 2:08 pm

Posters need to remember I think the following:

This is a public forum therefore sometimes the public have a look and judge the shoots and hunters by what they say on these forums.

Has become obvious over the last few years that the police often look at this forum and others. I'm sure some police form an opinion of shooters world and this may in the future work against us as a group.

Posts need to be positive not just the lots of ranting calling names and basically being negative providing no purpose.

Simply put, this is the only forum where the sort of behaviour that was in that thread that was deleted has been allowed to continue. Having said that I'm sure the admin don't watch every thread all the time as they have their own life to live and don't wish to be constantly on here vetting everything that is posted.

People always need to remember that when you post something on the forum all information is not easily available it is not the same as a face to face conversation so think before you press the submit button
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Jul 2020, 2:09 pm

wanneroo wrote:I've been around forums for a long time, back to the 1990s, so I have seen plenty, forums rise, peak, crash, implode, disappear. I belong to a few that have been around a long time and do a consistent business of traffic.

One thing you can't have is people that immediately flip to a personal attack anytime something is posted that conflicts with their opinion or what they do. Ultimately that's poison to a forum over the short term and long term. If people are not having fun and enjoying themselves, they punch out. On the other hand, the mods have to walk the line of letting good natured banter flow and if they do people will post informative and interesting things worth reading and there will be good conversation.

I have seen recently a few threads where I see people go full on personal attack and ignore the topic and personally I don't get it. There isn't anything online worth getting the panties in a twist about. I guess the old saying goes if you are not willing to say something to someone's face, don't post it online.


Couldn’t agree more.
The anonymity of hiding behind a keyboard does allow some ppl to be able to throw out insults that they’d never ever do in person.

Specifically speaking - in my opinion, regardless of the banter, the Cv19 thread, had some very informative information within and was quite entertaining...that banter between several (long term) members - I could not imagine anyone getting upset over what was within - but, that’s my subjective opinion.
BUT I do understand how a new reader might see / read that banter and think, geez, these guys are going at it by not knowing the back story...
eg I give Bill an absolute bollocking crap time over his trigger on his M18 - he knows it’s obviously a long standing joke and it’s a ridiculous thing to carry on about but it’s a thing that goes back years now between him and I - but someone just reading a post from me about that, will inevitably come to a different conclusion as they don’t know the history.

One other thing is - obviously it’s up to mods whom get warnings etc - I’ve seen this on several other forums - is it possible to show whom has been deleted or given a holiday ? Even if it said “paused” under their name, a diff colour, etc...it would ensure some threads make more sense when return questions go unanswered.

Edit - out of curiosity, I just went back and read some threads from 15/16/17 - interestingly, I didn’t recognise any of the names that were posting...maybe 1 or 2 but hardly any.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by marksman » 05 Jul 2020, 6:07 pm

"Edit - out of curiosity, I just went back and read some threads from 15/16/17 - interestingly, I didn’t recognise any of the names that were posting...maybe 1 or 2 but hardly any."

there was an exodus of a few members who decided that this forum was not for them anymore, a couple of them started their own forum
l did hear they left because we were bigots ect..in other words they got offended, we still have a member telling us at times it was our fault :crazy:
most of us who are here now did not know of the ship jump but there are a couple who did, apparently you got an invite, l never got one :wtf:
and apparently they have a share the love emoji cause there not bigots :allegedly:
good luck to them is what l think, as long as they are happy :drinks: but anyway

if they can have a share the love emoji why cant we have an axe grinding emoji :unknown: :lol:
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 06 Jul 2020, 11:56 am

TassieTiger wrote:Blackened - I agree with 99% of exactly what you’ve said above - but surely, you have to concur that in this day and age, in a political / off topic arena, things will get said that fall into a grey area...as you yourself have quoted above, have your say, if ppl don’t agree then get over it. This statement in itself leads to exactly whAt happened in the covid thread - 2 ppl having their say...


I acknowledge there are grey areas, of course. At some point though, action has to be taken.

I realise that a lot of what happens with moderation isn't actual seen by members, and this can lead to the appearance of arbitrary decisions or favouritism.

As I've said before though, just because at the time you read it you see a reasonably orderly topic, doesn't mean we haven't already deleted 50 problematic replies from it.

You may see a thread "disappear", when in fact there have been dozen of minor adjustments made prior to this. We're certainly not in a rush to delete or lock topics, sometimes that's just were we end up after many interventions which members don't see.

Honestly, I can't remember the specifics of the topic now that it's gone but in regards to "2 people having their say". This is fine, and if people had their say and wrapped it up I'm sure the topic could have stayed.

It's the second round of zero-value argumentative posts that are the problem, then the rebuttals, then the next rebuttals, then the next...

This can lead to 10 posts of content, and 30 post of arguments with no actual additional information. Just an attempt to force someone else to share a view, then berating them out of frustration when they can't be swayed. This, will we not allow.

At the end of the day mate, there is no perfect solution, and I certainly don't claim that we get it 100% right every time. The reality is in any conflict one person wanted to say it, one person thinks it's inappropriate. Whatever action/lack of action we take, someone is going to feed hard done by.

I won't repeat it, as I'm sure it's been made abundantly clear the type of behaviour we expect from members here. I can only continue to encourage this, and intervene when things fall outside of what is expected, for whatever reason it happens.

With a view to minimising interference though, I honestly can't stress enough how beneficial reporting a potentially problematic post really is. I know people have a (in my opinion, strange) reluctance to report posts, but this isn't pre-school, you're not 'dobbing', and it's not about 'standing up for yourself' by pushing on with an argument instead.

Many topics could have been saved if people had opted to use the report tool provided instead of choosing start/continue an argument which went on to consume the topic, ultimately resulting in it being locked/deleted.

The sooner something is brought to our attention, the sooner problem members can be warned/banned and larger problems/actions avoided.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 06 Jul 2020, 12:02 pm

marksman wrote:and now that l have been outed :roll:


I'd say this is a prime example of something that didn't need to be said.

Nothing about the posts that preceded your reply had any reference to you at all.

So who was this meant to bait? And why attempt to start the argument in the first place? :unknown: (Rhetorical, don't answer.)
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 06 Jul 2020, 12:13 pm

marksman wrote:you are not insulting members but a couple are insulted when you point out there behaviours :lol:


True.

TassieTiger wrote:You’ve highlighted the actual issue though - agro is subjective...politeness is subjective... “a bit of cheek” ? Wtf is that ? A bit of cheek to me, offends you - then what ?


Also true.

For the record, and to address the few 'snowflake' references, moderators do not automatically remove anything that is reported.

Just because someone finds something offensive does not mean we will removed it. We do get reports that we take no action on.

Likewise, even if someone is not attempting to be disruptive their post may be removed.

Every post that is reviewed is done so objectively, and removed, or not, based on what we think is ultimately best for the forum.

Sometimes this can be hard to appreciated, e.g.

Whatever action/lack of action we take, someone is going to feed hard done by.


But we hope people will try.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 06 Jul 2020, 12:15 pm

wanneroo wrote:One thing you can't have is people that immediately flip to a personal attack anytime something is posted that conflicts with their opinion or what they do.


wanneroo wrote:I have seen recently a few threads where I see people go full on personal attack and ignore the topic and personally I don't get it.


This is definitely someone we'd want reported, and would likely result in the immediate banning of that member as that is obviously inappropriate in any setting.
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Re: Another thread vanishes

Post by Blackened » 06 Jul 2020, 12:18 pm

Oldbloke wrote:This is a public forum therefore sometimes the public have a look and judge the shoots and hunters by what they say on these forums.


True, and this factors into our moderation at times.

Oldbloke wrote:Simply put, this is the only forum where the sort of behaviour that was in that thread that was deleted has been allowed to continue. Having said that I'm sure the admin don't watch every thread all the time as they have their own life to live and don't wish to be constantly on here vetting everything that is posted.


Again, that's what the report functionality is for. Any report comes directly to all moderators, and removes the need for us to be across every active topic simultaneously.
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