a funny thing happened

[marksman]

l'm having a chuckle about a funny thing that happened yesterday and thought l'd share it for a laugh

yesterday my son was doing his home schooling "webex"
they had to answer a question about why they thought the electric car was better for the environment?

my sons answer was "they are not"

l could hear the teacher ask him the question in front of the class then ask "why do you say this" with a bit of a chuckle

my son came back with "my dad told me" as he was getting off his chair coming to me

the teacher was a bit lost for words as my son handed his tablet to me the teacher asked me why l would say that

so l gave it too him in front of the class, nicely,
l explained how it takes 8 times more carbon emissions to make an aluminum chassis than a steel one,
that although electric cars are very trendy they still have to be charged up from the grid using the same electricity that comes from coal fired electric plants just like the school room he is sitting in now,
l then told him and the class how Elon Musk had come out looking for a pat on the back because his tesla factory was now run solely on renewable energy that was debunked because although he has installed some solar panels at the factory it is still run off the grid
l went into how the tesla car batteries are lithium and are made with carbon as are solar panels and that the school needs to be showing both sides of the argument to the kids so they can make an educated decision with all the facts

he was silent for a little so l suggested he show the class the climate activist Michael moore movie "planet of the humans"

he thanked me for my input and he went back to teaching the class

l think its easier to program children when school is at school
and l'm thinking of sending him a message showing a link to the planet of the humans movie

[Noisydad]

You’re gunna get called to the office and made wait till your mum comes to pick you up!

[on_one_wheel]

What a great and very rare opportunity to demonstrate to the teacher and the class that not all that were are taught is correct.

The teachers silence was probably his cognitive dissonance kicking in.

Hopefully that teacher dose his homework after your input.

[Die Judicii]

Good onya Mate

Hopefully the teacher concerned could at least spell correctly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I recently had a consultation with a health professional whom in turn wrote a referral,,, and listed the 9 prescription drugs that I'm currently taking.

8 out of the 9 were horribly misspelt and the 9th was so wrong that even I don't know which drug she was referring to.

[mchughcb]

It is not a simple yes or no question, more like it depends. Putting the environment aside for one second. I'm more interested in air quality. So for example if energy from power came from a nuclear power station or hydro to charge a car via batteries or fuel cell, and the car had almost zero emissions in terms of NOX, soot or less brake dust, then the air quality when intensive use of vehicles around cities could result in cleaner air. This is better for everyone's health. Even if coal fired provides the energy then there is an opportunity to run the power station exhaust through an improved centralised scrubbing system rather than the distributed catalytic convertors on every car.

Looking at the car manufacturing, if the chassis is made out of a lighter weight material than steel then the less energy required to move it has to offset the operating costs over its life cycle. Then of course we have to look at recycling of components or do they end up in landfill.

I don't mind electric cars and I saw plenty of Teslas in Reno, Nevada last year near the Tesla Giga Factory and I think they are okay just haven't got the range that people want yet in Australia or the USA. Plus they are outrageously expensive compared to ICE.

[wanneroo]

Obviously the world oligarchs are pushing electric cars because it's much easier to control the populace. Usually the electric grid is controlled by some sort of monopoly, often state run. So once they get you addicted to electric cars, they jack the rates up through the roof and then who can afford it?

Lots of problems with electric cars:

1. Where do you get all the electricity from to power all the cars? Coal, gas, nuclear, wind, etc? In the USA the grid can only support 5% of the fleet of cars being electric?
2. Who builds the infrastructure for it and who pays for it? It's estimated to replace a 20 pump petrol station you need a station with 120 electric chargers which require the construction of an electric substation that can power 31000 homes.
3. Batteries only last 6-8 years or so, who wants to pay many thousands to replace them, who recycles them and who looks after all the environmental issues with them?
4. When batteries catch fire they often are impossible to put out and spread toxic fumes and chemicals everywhere. Who wants to deal with all this toxic stuff in car crashes?
5. At least with gasoline or diesel it is stored energy, you can take a can of it anywhere. Storing electricity is complicated and expensive. What do people do in remote or rural areas?

[Dedd]

I feel like I have to come in here in defense of the teacher here. From what I've seen and heard, the curriculum is typically pretty restrictive. When this topic came up it was probably written something like "students should have an understanding of the environmental benefits of emerging technologies." It could be pretty bad for the teacher if the students get a standardized test and write that electric vehicles are worse than ICE vehicles.

Point is, the problem isn't teachers (usually) it's politicians getting elected on the back of adding more content to the curriculum and taking away any ability for teacher to provide nuance to the content.

[mchughcb]

Maybe, but if the question is phrased like "why they thought the electric car was better for the environment?" then its already directing the answer.

Most engineers and economists struggle with life cycle costing on a lot of stuff.

It doesn't endear the teachers to any sympathy when a bunch of them and soccer mums are encouraging students to go on an extinction rebellion protest and hinder me getting to work. The children aren't even old enough to comprehend what they are protesting about as they sit their looking at Tik Tok on their Chinese made mobile phones powered by la trobe valley coal.

[Dedd]

Maybe, but if the question is phrased like "why they thought the electric car was better for the environment?" then its already directing the answer.

Yes I agree. I'm saying if the teacher didn't phrase it that way then they might get in trouble when it comes time for tests. Remember, standardized tests have very strict marking guidelines and often control the teacher's future career. Hell, if it came out that you were deliberately teaching the opposite of what the curriculum says (regardless of the topic) then you'd likely face legal action.

It doesn't endear the teachers to any sympathy when a bunch of them and soccer mums are encouraging students to go on an extinction rebellion protest and hinder me getting to work. The children aren't even old enough to comprehend what they are protesting about as they sit their looking at Tik Tok on their Chinese made mobile phones powered by la trobe valley coal.

I don't have much to say on that, other than it's probably a decision made by people higher-up than the average teacher.
School protests are actually a debated topic within the teaching community too, although most teachers seem to agree that we should (in a politically-neutral manner) encourage student political involvement outside of school. Yes, unfortunately some teachers also think that teachers should influence student political preference. But I don't think they're a very big group thankfully.

[Bruiser64]

Interesting. A more useful question is: “why does the middle class want to virtue signal about trivial changes to their privileged lives (e.g by buying an electric car) rather than fundamentally shifting from a high consumption lifestyle?”. If these people were serious they would make a profound shift to how they live their lives such as eschewing cars altogether. I find it quite bizarre that people think slight modifications to your consumer choices means you are an “eco warrior”. Go live a subsistence life if you really want to reduce your carbon footprint. Unsurprisingly not too many people find that terribly appealing.

[mchughcb]

Probably because their life expectancy will drop dramatically.

[marksman]

the truth of it is though Dedd that the schools are supposed to teach our young kids math and english even how to read and write, if the schools are going to push one way of thinking wouldn't it be fairer to push the other side of the coin as well, put it all out there considering they are children
it looks like programing to me because it is assumed that the electric cars are what they really are not all things considered and at this time
these other agenda pushing ideas are getting in the way of common sence learning,

an eg... a few years ago when safe schools program was fairly new l was at a meeting with my kids principal l told him l did not want my young children at that time taught gender fluidity, they would learn all about that as they grew older and did not need it pushed at them in primary school. he responded with "unfortunately the school has no choice, that his school was not allowed to teach religion but had to teach gender fluidity" we came to an agreement that when it would be taught my children would stay home,
but that never happened

l believe politics should be left out of school at least till they are old enough to have a better understanding
to show my point l will leave a link to a leaked teacher lecture
https://www.facebook.com/STOPSAFEschool ... 941808999/
https://www.facebook.com/STOPSAFEschool ... 221661971/

and l'm not having a crack Dedd just putting my point across

[Bruiser64]

Probably because their life expectancy will drop dramatically.

Without a shadow of a doubt. In spite of what they say, most people in a rich country like ours quite understandably want to enjoy its pleasures and benefits. They are hoping for a technological solution that will allow them to maintain a low guilt high standard of living.

If you recall the Greta Thunberg inspired school strikes we saw kids “demanding climate action”. From others. Not them. How many kids demanded their parents downsize the house? Or volunteered to share a bedroom with their siblings to facilitate this?Or sold off all their electronics? Or refused to be driven around by their parents? Or refused to go on anything other than a family cycling holiday to cut down their personal carbon footprints? I haven’t met one yet.

Going back to the original post, the curriculum question assumed there was a manifest benefit to swapping out a massive vehicle fleet without any analysis of the huge resource consumption to achieve it. What wasnt canvassed was whether people prepared to have hugely reduced mobility to reduce their consumption of resources and carbon production. Short answer: no. We have the absurd situation where people are hoping to solve what they see as an over consumption problem by producing more consumption.

[Bill]

Sounds like you missed ya callin marksman, ya should been a teacher

[marksman]

who says l'm not a teacher Bill

but anyway what do you think of this one mate

[Dedd]

the truth of it is though Dedd that the schools are supposed to teach our young kids math and english even how to read and write, if the schools are going to push one way of thinking wouldn't it be fairer to push the other side of the coin as well, put it all out there considering they are children
it looks like programing to me because it is assumed that the electric cars are what they really are not all things considered and at this time
these other agenda pushing ideas are getting in the way of common sence learning,

I agree, there's a lot of weird s**t in the education field. Personally I think it all stems from government. In my (admittedly limited) experience, there's a lot of programs that only seem to exist to gain votes, and others that seem good in theory but have been bastardized by someone in charge in order to look good.
That's without starting on government mandated uni courses. They're nothing but courses that exist for the sake of existing. There's some kooky people teaching them too. Not all of them are bad to be fair, the one I did on Aboriginal education stuff was actually kind of interesting. Presumably because it was taught by an Aboriginal person who clearly cared about the topic and wasn't just virtue signalling.
I do disagree that children should only be taught math and English in schools though. That time of life is very important for learning higher-order thinking skills (learning how to think). Since it often just isn't practical for parents to teach kids that kind of stuff, schools need to. The problem comes when teachers cross over from teaching how to think, to teaching what to think.

an eg... a few years ago when safe schools program was fairly new l was at a meeting with my kids principal l told him l did not want my young children at that time taught gender fluidity, they would learn all about that as they grew older and did not need it pushed at them in primary school. he responded with "unfortunately the school has no choice, that his school was not allowed to teach religion but had to teach gender fluidity" we came to an agreement that when it would be taught my children would stay home,
but that never happened

Yeah, unfortunately like I said public schools just don't have a lot of choice over what they teach. I doubt they went behind your back deliberately, the teachers I've met wouldn't dare go against the wishes of a parent unless they were legally obligated to.

and l'm not having a crack Dedd just putting my point across

Yeah it's fine, I didn't think you were. I'm not either just in case it came across that way. I'm currently studying to be a teacher, so obviously it's an important topic for me.

[Bill]

not bad looks pinkish marksman.....46cm ??

[marksman]

not bad looks pinkish marksman.....46cm ??

63cm bill, there here