Concerning at the least

[Stoney]

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bu ... ZVHSuHQ9fo

The explanation.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/do ... tion%2Fpdf

Foreign Police? Foreign Armed Forces? Probably should be taken with a grain of salt

[on_one_wheel]

Looks like the government is crossing the t's and dotting the i's in preparation for a SHTF scenario.

Streamlining the calling in of reserves caught my eye.

[Stoney]

Looks like the government is crossing the t's and dotting the i's in preparation for a SHTF scenario.

Streamlining the calling in of reserves caught my eye.

What caught my eye was the use of foreign police or foreign armed forces under the direction of the Australian Government being given immunity against criminal or civil liability. WTF on so many levels.

[marksman]

but what are other emergencies can that be a political purpose eg.... Dan not getting his way
after seeing the debacle in Victoria for covid against the people l do not trust anything
and l agree totally, "concerning at least"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFmpw17JPSM

[on_one_wheel]

Looks like the government is crossing the t's and dotting the i's in preparation for a SHTF scenario.

Streamlining the calling in of reserves caught my eye.

What caught my eye was the use of foreign police or foreign armed forces under the direction of the Australian Government being given immunity against criminal or civil liability. WTF on so many levels.

To enable allied forces to engage on our soil. If our allies come here to fend of Chinese military for example, they need immunity so they don't get their asses sued when they let rip and flatten houses, buildings, roads, bridges, people and so on.

They're getting ready.
China is trying to put us on our knees for one reason only.

[womble]

China not getting their way..
Economic sanctions are increasing. 2 days ago they banned the import of Australian coal. Their virus is failing here.
We are forming alliances with new countries. Potentially India, japan, South Korea.
This has it’s problems. All countries surround China and have existing territorial disputes.
So when it’s game on we’re in.
Might as well get prepared for it.

[bigrich]

China not getting their way..
Economic sanctions are increasing. 2 days ago they banned the import of Australian coal. Their virus is failing here.
We are forming alliances with new countries. Potentially India, japan, South Korea.
This has it’s problems. All countries surround China and have existing territorial disputes.
So when it’s game on we’re in.
Might as well get prepared for it.

that's how i see it . we could have a anti-china coalition force based here besides the marines and other americans already here .also we've had american firefighters and water bombing aircrews over here during the bushfires , this is a atempt to look after them as well i think

i read the other day germany is leading the EU in building stronger trading ,investment and defence ties with australia . german company rheinmetal is building our new armoured vehicles in ipswich queensland
i should get a job there and build the most awesome shootin' buggy you guys ever seen
ya reckon a 25mm bushmaster would be enough for pigs

[trekin]

I must be reading something different to the rest of you's. I for one would welcome these amendments, which have nothing to do with the use of force, but everything to do with giving ADF personal, and others, the protections already afforded civilian emergency workers.

"This Bill includes several measures that will enhance Defence’scapacity to provide assistance in relation to natural disasters and other emergencies. The mechanism Defence uses for providing assistance in a natural disaster or other emergency (not requiring the use of force) is the Defence Assistance to the Civil Community (DACC) policy. The measures in this Bill will enhance the ability to provide DACC assistance by:
a.streamlining the process for calling out members of the ADF Reserves under sections 28 and 29 of the Defence Act 1903(the Act)(Schedule 1)
b.providing ADF members, other Defence personnel and members of foreign forces with similar immunities to State and Territory emergency services personnel in certain cases while performing duties to support civil emergency and disaster preparedness, recovery and response (Schedule 2)
c.amending ADF superannuation legislation to ensure that Reserve members who provide continuous full-time service following a call out under section 28 of the Act are appropriately covered for superannuation and related benefits (Schedule 3)."

[bigrich]

[quote="trekin"]I must be reading something different to the rest of you's. I for one would welcome these amendments, which have nothing to do with the use of force, but everything to do with giving ADF personal, and others, the protections already afforded civilian emergency workers.

i'm inclined to agree with this point of view trekin

if you want to get into a dark view of things folks , the law still stands that you can be tried and hung from the neck until dead for obstructing/ holding up the mail

however , freedom comes at the cost of vigilance

[Oldbloke]

I must be reading something different to the rest of you's. I for one would welcome these amendments, which have nothing to do with the use of force, but everything to do with giving ADF personal, and others, the protections already afforded civilian emergency workers.

"This Bill includes several measures that will enhance Defence’scapacity to provide assistance in relation to natural disasters and other emergencies. The mechanism Defence uses for providing assistance in a natural disaster or other emergency (not requiring the use of force) is the Defence Assistance to the Civil Community (DACC) policy. The measures in this Bill will enhance the ability to provide DACC assistance by:
a.streamlining the process for calling out members of the ADF Reserves under sections 28 and 29 of the Defence Act 1903(the Act)(Schedule 1)
b.providing ADF members, other Defence personnel and members of foreign forces with similar immunities to State and Territory emergency services personnel in certain cases while performing duties to support civil emergency and disaster preparedness, recovery and response (Schedule 2)
c.amending ADF superannuation legislation to ensure that Reserve members who provide continuous full-time service following a call out under section 28 of the Act are appropriately covered for superannuation and related benefits (Schedule 3)."

Yes, could be SHTF stuff but far more likely what Trekin is saying. After the ADF involvement in the bushfires and covid a few issues have probably highlighted. Hence the amendments.

Most acts and regulations are periodically reviewed. Usually every 10 years. Afterall the world is changing and legislation needs to keep up.

Always keep in mind this is happening all the time and usually goes through both houses quietly.

[marksman]

'providing ADF members, other Defence personnel and members of foreign forces with similar immunities to State and Territory emergency services personnel in certain cases while performing duties to support civil emergency and disaster preparedness, recovery and response"

you guys mean to support a civil emergency like in the case of the lady who was fined $1652 because when she was out on her legal 1hr a day walk exercise on her own, 1 of the 4 reasons you are allowed out of the house in Melbourne carrying a sign saying toot to boot Dan, l have also read somewhere about a person who was fined because of a message on there face mask

so what are other emergencies? can this bill be abused for a political purpose eg... you cant say anything against the dictator?

l really thought that we had learnt to take what the authorities tell us with a pinch of salt until its proved otherwise l know Victorians have

but anyway, naaa your probably right we can trust the pollies to do the righty by us

[Member-Deleted]

First let me state that I don't like the government, but I will try to add a little bit of reasoning (I could be wrong).

I'd imagine the bill is designed to allow allied troops to help in an emergency without facing any criminal or civil charges as long as they act within the same laws Australian troops must abide by, think NZ troops, American, British, Canadian etc.

Is it possible that these things can be used against us? Possibly. One thing I want you to realise is that Australia is HEAVILY reliant on our allies. Our ADF consists of about 80,000 personnel in total, our Police Forces consist of about 80,000 personnel. In total, we have about 160,000 government employees that are armed and "trained". This number is pitiful. We should have a mandatory period for being in the defence force or peace corps, everyone should have training in firearms and pass tests yearly. Troops should be able to keep their weapons at home. Police too. Civilians should be able to arm themselves with at least semi-auto rifles, and keep them for self defence purposes. Mandatory training should be expected. Even Medieval England allowed citizens to train and use long bows as that way they'd always have a decent reserve of people who were armed and trained.

[marksman]

"I'd imagine the bill is designed to allow allied troops to help in an emergency without facing any criminal or civil charges as long as they act within the same laws Australian troops must abide by, think NZ troops, American, British, Canadian etc."

l totally accept what you are saying, what the bill is designed to do and l also agree with what womble said but l do not trust the government to do the right thing because it is the right thing for them to do eg... have a look at the voting for the recent extensions to lockdown powers, they are not because it was the right thing to do, the votes were bought IMHO everyone should have a healthy distrust of the government

what l think anyway

edit: and l'd toot to boot the b@stard

[Member-Deleted]

"I'd imagine the bill is designed to allow allied troops to help in an emergency without facing any criminal or civil charges as long as they act within the same laws Australian troops must abide by, think NZ troops, American, British, Canadian etc."

l totally accept what you are saying, what the bill is designed to do and l also agree with what womble said but l do not trust the government to do the right thing because it is the right thing for them to do eg... have a look at the voting for the recent extensions to lockdown powers, they are not because it was the right thing to do, the votes were bought IMHO everyone should have a healthy distrust of the government

what l think anyway

edit: and l'd toot to boot the b@stard

Agreed!

[trekin]

'providing ADF members, other Defence personnel and members of foreign forces with similar immunities to State and Territory emergency services personnel in certain cases while performing duties to support civil emergency and disaster preparedness, recovery and response"

you guys mean to support a civil emergency like in the case of the lady who was fined $1652 because when she was out on her legal 1hr a day walk exercise on her own, 1 of the 4 reasons you are allowed out of the house in Melbourne carrying a sign saying toot to boot Dan, l have also read somewhere about a person who was fined because of a message on there face mask

so what are other emergencies? can this bill be abused for a political purpose eg... you cant say anything against the dictator?

l really thought that we had learnt to take what the authorities tell us with a pinch of salt until its proved otherwise l know Victorians have

but anyway, naaa your probably right we can trust the pollies to do the righty by us

Do you have a link to ADF personal handing out these fines? ADF personal on deployment to State Govts are still under Federal legislation, which does not allow them to be used as police, unless martial law has been declared by the Fed Govt. All these amendments do, is cut the amount of red tape there is now when requested for deployment by the States. Gives the boots on the ground protection from civil liability akin to that afforded civilian emergency workers, which they don't get ATM. And allows Super contributions to be made if when an A Res is on full tim deployment, something that is very lacking ATM .

[eddievic]

'

Umm looks like she doesn't have a face mask.

[marksman]

of course l dont have a link to ADF personal handing out fines Trekin

but history is a good teacher and the pollies have a good track record that shows they cant be trusted, especially of late dont you reckon
when this was first posted up l actually thought it may have had something to do with the strong cities network Dan signed Melbourne up to
there are a hell of a lot of rumors surrounding this including outsourced police and there's always some really rich prick in there somewhere
lets face it, l'm a sceptic, maybe l've been watching the daily Dan show for too long too many lies and cover ups

[marksman]

you mean like this face mask she was wearing at the time eddie
the whole thing is a joke and the police look like they have nothing better to do, the crime is protesting the premier, nothing to do with the virus or health emergency, so what are other emergencies? and can these bills be abused for a political purpose?
watch the link below and see what the police have to say about why they fined her and on what evidence they used to fine her
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54cuJdMDi8E

[eddievic]

Not sure what i can say to your reply

[trekin]

of course l dont have a link to ADF personal handing out fines Trekin

but history is a good teacher and the pollies have a good track record that shows they cant be trusted, especially of late dont you reckon
when this was first posted up l actually thought it may have had something to do with the strong cities network Dan signed Melbourne up to
there are a hell of a lot of rumors surrounding this including outsourced police and there's always some really rich prick in there somewhere
lets face it, l'm a sceptic, maybe l've been watching the daily Dan show for too long too many lies and cover ups

I understand your concerns, mate, however, you should not be confusing State with Federal laws. ADF personal can not be used as police, even under Dan's omnibus BS, Fed laws do not allow it and Fed laws over ride State laws. To allow this to happen, would require amendments to more Sections of the Defence Act than 28 and 29, as well as to the Constitution itself.

[marksman]

thanks Trekin

[Oldbloke]

"Fed laws do not allow it and Fed laws over ride State laws"

Not always correct. But sometimes. Depends what is listed in the constitution as to responsibilities of the Federal Gov. The constitution determines what is Fed gov responsibility. The remainder is usually state gov responsibility. But in some cases the states have signed over responsibility to the Fed's.

[Bill]

China not getting their way..
Economic sanctions are increasing. 2 days ago they banned the import of Australian coal. Their virus is failing here.
We are forming alliances with new countries. Potentially India, japan, South Korea.
This has it’s problems. All countries surround China and have existing territorial disputes.
So when it’s game on we’re in.
Might as well get prepared for it.

alot of posturing, Chinaco can buy Coal from anywhere but the reality is they will comeback to ours cause logistic/price/quality.

They are just trying to inflict some pain on Scomo as the coal /gas/steal sector run the back office of the Liberal party.

[trekin]

"Fed laws do not allow it and Fed laws over ride State laws"

Not always correct. But sometimes. Depends what is listed in the constitution as to responsibilities of the Federal Gov. The constitution determines what is Fed gov responsibility. The remainder is usually state gov responsibility. But in some cases the states have signed over responsibility to the Fed's.

My apologies for my over reaching and simplistic summation. You are of course correct, under the Australian Constitution, the States are responsible for providing a means to maintain their own law and order. The same constitution makes it the responsibility of the Federal government to provide an armed force for National defence and security, and provide legislation on how and when those forces are deployed, either on a war footing, or on peacetime deployment.

[straightshooter]

You are all in one way or another missing a crucial point.
It's not what legislation purports to be for, or what politicians say it's for, or for that matter what you romantically think it might be for.
The only thing that matters is what the legislation is capable of doing.
Don't you think all Australian governments already have openly unlimited power in a putative emergency and cloaked but still unlimited power at other times.

And just for Bill, is it a Freudian slip?
"They are just trying to inflict some pain on Scomo as the coal /gas/steal sector run the back office of the Liberal party."
FYI the steal sector is run by the green left and your darling Laber party.

[eddievic]

You are all in one way or another missing a crucial point.
It's not what legislation purports to be for, or what politicians say it's for, or for that matter what you romantically think it might be for.
The only thing that matters is what the legislation is capable of doing.
Don't you think all Australian governments already have openly unlimited power in a putative emergency and cloaked but still unlimited power at other times.
.

[Oldbloke]

The part in the omnibus bill about detaining people was dumped.
I guess the rest was passed though.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14264

[Farmerpete]

How you guys can interpret anything written by politicians is beyond me, I was trying to understand the omnibus one the other day it was just a whole heap of "in this act paragraph x this word will be changed to that word". Im just a simple farmer no way in hell I could understand that gobbledygook.
Then again from the things I've heard about it it may be intentionally written to confuse.

[Bill]

You are all in one way or another missing a crucial point.
It's not what legislation purports to be for, or what politicians say it's for, or for that matter what you romantically think it might be for.
The only thing that matters is what the legislation is capable of doing.
Don't you think all Australian governments already have openly unlimited power in a putative emergency and cloaked but still unlimited power at other times.

And just for Bill, is it a Freudian slip?
"They are just trying to inflict some pain on Scomo as the coal /gas/steal sector run the back office of the Liberal party."
FYI the steal sector is run by the green left and your darling Laber party.

you're over thinking things mate, was just a spelling mistake

and I dont vote labor or Green

[Member-Deleted]

How you guys can interpret anything written by politicians is beyond me, I was trying to understand the omnibus one the other day it was just a whole heap of "in this act paragraph x this word will be changed to that word". Im just a simple farmer no way in hell I could understand that gobbledygook.
Then again from the things I've heard about it it may be intentionally written to confuse.

It is most definitely designed to confuse bud. You're keeping it real, that's important. There's revolution just around the corner bud, your skills, land and knowledge will be vital.