Any covid unemployed thinking about fruit/veggie picking ?

[Ziege]

You have some failings there, an employee who does something dangerous is negligent of their own duty of care, no employee should ever engage in any practices they aren't qualified and trained and supervised to do. if they do they indemnify the employer to at least some degree. Personal responsibility goes a long way.

Correct, but when you have bills to pay, mouths to feed and a future to prepare for. Working on a casual contract, or perhaps no contract at all, or even... get this, it's a sneaky one that I hate.. As an ABN "contractor", you're unlikely to say to the boss "yeah mate, I don't believe getting on this slightly elevated flatbed is safe, I'm not comfortable doing that so I won't." You're either going to be told to f*** off, and you have no proof of employment, or he's suddenly going to run out of work for you. Sure, you may have saved yourself an injury, but now you've lost an employer and a reference. Back to the welfare line. So, either wait until you find decent secure work, or just risk it for the biscuit so you're not on welfare.

We didn't win this time, but we live to fight another day

this the attitude you should have, foolish to do something utterly retarded for short term gains, if someone does and gets permanently injured thats kinda their problem at the end of the day.[/quote]


Hang on, Did u say you have an Adv Diploma in WHS?


God help any injured employees that work where you work. FMD

God help anyone stupid enough to do something that puts them in direct harm, only time they should is with a gun to their head.

you fail to see how contributory factors play in, time and time again....

[Ziege]

OldBloke, like it or not there are ALWAYS two or more contributors to any workplace accident. If you want compensation it is YOUR burden to prove that your contribution was minimal. if you have been found to be contributing to the accident in a greater capacity than your employer then you can expect some sort of compensation payout should the insurer consider it eligible, else there really is no need for an employer to be penalized for what is evidently the actions of an employee basically failing to spot the hazard, assess the risk, and make the change.

Example: employer tells billy to unload the ute, billy decides his best way to do this is to rush two and fro the back of the ute standing on it while parked on a slope in high winds and pouring rain, billy goes c#nt up and fractures his spine.... now who is at fault? those who dont think logically will say the employer, but the law says billy is at fault in the majority of the incident because the instructions from the employer were not to rush on and off of the ute tray in inclement weather or at all.

billy would likely be covered for medical costs for 12 months and 12 months lost pay... but in essence its his fault in the majority of the incident. The employers only contributing factor is that they didnt provide adequate supervision.

Likewise if an employee at a workshop takes off a safeguard on a machine and sustains an injury, supervision would be the only angle that the employees legal advisor could pursue.

[Oldbloke]

Zeige,
Who controls the workplace and the employees?
Employer has 95% of the control.

[Skinna]

under WA law the buck stops with the employer, so OHS officer cant be in the firing line as the only person vulnerable at the end of the day is the employer themselves.

How many family farms have an OHS Officer?
Casual employees are clueless regarding their rights or responsibilities. Esp in 'WaitAwhile"

Not saying all farmers don't GAF. But some just don't care.

The worker is the most vulnerable, they are the ones getting the injuries. Farmer just gets higher premiums. Oh, and they are,,,, guess what,,,,? Yep u guessed it, a tax deduction.

Most vulnerable legally, Fines are immense for both individuals and more so for businesses, and no fines are not tax deductible.

Also a finding against a proprietor or business entity swings the door 1000ft wide open for litigation, and if they are negligent their insurance is NOT going to bail them out and may even cease providing them with insurance.

Ofcourse fines are tax deductable...or at the very least, tax is not payed on the value of any fines incurred by a business...!!!
Do you think every business operating out there doesnt add in the cost (loss) of any fines to their profit & loss statements...??...
Yea go on--tell me you never added any fines into the liabilities column in your ledger...

Ofcourse they do...!!..therefor they arent paying tax on the value of the fine...that is a tax deduction my friend...

[Ziege]

Zeige,
Who controls the workplace and the employees?
Employer has 95% of the control.

incorrect, each person has full control over their own volition. unless youre playing for insanity/diminished capacity, places like activ industries who employ vast amounts of intellectually impaired peoiple have little to no room for error on their part as any accident is considered their fault despite the actions of the intellectually impaired/under developed person, much the same as schools and daycare and creche's have with children. Adults on the other hand are considered under law as fit and able to assess the risks themselves and are expected under law to not engage in any behaviour or work practices that result in their harm or anyone else's, this is their legal duty of care. the idea that the employer is the only one responsible is garbage, an employee that fails to report a hazard, and engage in safe work practices is as much at fault or more so.

[Farmerpete]

As a farmer reading through this thread some of the misinformation is laughable
Peice rate is a way of rewarding those who do more... its calculated by taking the amount of workers multiplied by the base rate (24.86 p/h) multiplied by hours worked then divided by peices picked, everyone gets the chance to earn award rate some just don't bother then complain that their mate got more money.
As for who's to blame for workplace incidents, we use a mob called employsure, they write the training procedures and workplace agreement then take all the litigation on for any incidents (providing the employee has signed induction forms and said agreement) i have to teach people every single job to the point of telling them that they shouldn't put their fingers in secateurs before closing them (yes really)

At some point you have to take responsibility for doing something stupid and stop trying to collect compensation.

[Member-Deleted]

As a farmer reading through this thread some of the misinformation is laughable
Peice rate is a way of rewarding those who do more... its calculated by taking the amount of workers multiplied by the base rate (24.86 p/h) multiplied by hours worked then divided by peices picked, everyone gets the chance to earn award rate some just don't bother then complain that their mate got more money.
As for who's to blame for workplace incidents, we use a mob called employsure, they write the training procedures and workplace agreement then take all the litigation on for any incidents (providing the employee has signed induction forms and said agreement) i have to teach people every single job to the point of telling them that they shouldn't put their fingers in secateurs before closing them (yes really)

At some point you have to take responsibility for doing something stupid and stop trying to collect compensation.

Well good on you for doing the right thing?

[Blr243]

I used to work with this bloke Geoff. He told me that once on a previous job his co worker wanted to collect compo. The co worker , when alone with Geoff begged him profusely to hit him across the knee brutally with an iron bar. Geoff refused. It was a bit too hardcore for him. Just goes to show what sort of looneys are out there

[Member-Deleted]

I used to work with this bloke Geoff. He told me that once on a previous job his co worker wanted to collect compo. The co worker , when alone with Geoff begged him profusely to hit him across the knee brutally with an iron bar. Geoff refused. It was a bit too hardcore for him. Just goes to show what sort of looneys are out there

Tis disturbing.

[Blr243]

Regarding insurance /litigation companies like the aforementioned EMPLOYSURE , it’s nice to see that farmers and similar can call on companies like that. Farmers are not solicitors, it allows the farmer a sense of comfort and security , and then they can just concentrate on just getting the crops off

[Member-Deleted]

As a farmer reading through this thread some of the misinformation is laughable

I can't speak for everyone, but I'd certainly like to hear from your perspective what misinformation is being told.

[Oldbloke]

As a farmer reading through this thread some of the misinformation is laughable
Peice rate is a way of rewarding those who do more... its calculated by taking the amount of workers multiplied by the base rate (24.86 p/h) multiplied by hours worked then divided by peices picked, everyone gets the chance to earn award rate some just don't bother then complain that their mate got more money.
As for who's to blame for workplace incidents, we use a mob called employsure, they write the training procedures and workplace agreement then take all the litigation on for any incidents (providing the employee has signed induction forms and said agreement) i have to teach people every single job to the point of telling them that they shouldn't put their fingers in secateurs before closing them (yes really)

At some point you have to take responsibility for doing something stupid and stop trying to collect compensation.

Good. Nice change

[Farmerpete]

Ok where do i start?

Ziege and Womble, let me just point out as someone who has done a little veggie picking, lived in several backpackers and has applied for more of those positions than I care to remember, most places exploit workers, a lot of them don't like hiring Aussies because they have said "no thanks" to the s**ty piece rates I prefer to hire Aussies just most prefer the dole, couldn't count the number of times I said come out and been told "not really looking for a job but can I put you on my centrelink form?"(people who don't meet minimum standards are booted if it's p/h not piece rate). this is the case with every job ( that's why it's called work)Most farms you have to pay for expensive accomodation also, whether it is on the farm or at a backpackers (some farms hire exclusively from the hostels as they have some under-the-table deal). Never had a deal with a hostel, how would that work, would I be able to pay them less?Typically it's around $250 a week. Now if you have to pay rent at another place at the same time, that's going to chew into about half your wagewhy do backpackers need to live in 2 places? if you are fast enough and the pay is good enough. A lot of backpackers end up in the red, but they need the 88 days so they just put up with it and pay the difference.pay is usually around 1000 less tax so 850 in hand

I'll also put it out there that there isn't nearly as much sexing as you'd imagine. You must be ugly there's plenty of that happening from what I've heardEveryone is already too f***ed from the long days work. I would love to challenge anyone who thinks people are just being lazy for not trying for those jobs to 1. Try and get yourself one of those jobs, 2. Try and stick at it for a month. See how you end up. It's a rort that's rife with exploitation. I've never exploited anyone in my life and I resent the insinuation

I've also had a bit of experience labouring in farms, but not with any animals, I've never been able to score those jobs and they aren't willing to accept a volunteer for work experience.why wouldn't i want someone to work for free? Mainly with hay bailing, fire season prep, rolling up old fencing wire and collecting posts.

Don't be so harsh on all us unemployed folks, 1. this was forced on us, 2. Hundreds of people apply for jobs going around see above if you don't fill out the form centrelink will cut you off[, how many are genuinely applying?/color]3. There is going to be a decent chunk of society unemployed no matter which way you slice it. 4. The "job providers" are a rort, they make billions by keeping you unemployed and playing the system.[color=#FF4000]pretty sure job providers only get paid when you get a job

There found your misinformation for you

[Member-Deleted]

The way that this is formatted I'm going to struggle to section it, so please bear with me.

Ok where do i start?

Ziege and Womble, let me just point out as someone who has done a little veggie picking, lived in several backpackers and has applied for more of those positions than I care to remember, most places exploit workers, a lot of them don't like hiring Aussies because they have said "no thanks" to the s**ty piece rates

I prefer to hire Aussies just most prefer the dole, couldn't count the number of times I said come out and been told "not really looking for a job but can I put you on my centrelink form?"

Okay, both of our arguments are anecdotal, however, mine is referring not just to my experiences, but the experiences of the many hundreds if not thousands of backpackers I've met who were on the harvest trail, not to mention the news articles I've read exploring this, and the youtube videos I've watched of backpackers talking about their experiences. If you'd like I can find and link you some?

(people who don't meet minimum standards are booted if it's p/h not piece rate).

this is the case with every job ( that's why it's called work)


This isn't the case with every job, but yes there are many that are driven by quotas and KPI's. Depending on the environment and the employer, these may or may not be realistically achievable by the AVERAGE worker without overburdening them. Yes, work is work, but it's not slave labour. Out of curiosity, as I've never seen this happen personally or heard of it, when was the last time you as the farmer spent a week picking or packing meeting KPI's?

Most farms you have to pay for expensive accomodation also, whether it is on the farm or at a backpackers (some farms hire exclusively from the hostels as they have some under-the-table deal).

Never had a deal with a hostel, how would that work, would I be able to pay them less?

I don't know exactly how it works, but it must work otherwise they wouldn't do it. Perhaps, and this is just a guess, the local farms get a cut out of what it earns? Along with the labour of course.

Typically it's around $250 a week. Now if you have to pay rent at another place at the same time, that's going to chew into about half your wage

why do backpackers need to live in 2 places?

They don't, but I'm referring to Australian's if they were to do it.

if you are fast enough and the pay is good enough. A lot of backpackers end up in the red, but they need the 88 days so they just put up with it and pay the difference.

pay is usually around 1000 less tax so 850 in hand

Perhaps on your farm it is, but I haven't heard from many people who earn that amount. Those that make close to that are usually doing the easier fruits with a good employer.

I'll also put it out there that there isn't nearly as much sexing as you'd imagine.

You must be ugly there's plenty of that happening from what I've heard

Maybe I am... Maybe I'm not, but I've been in many backpacker dorms typically the big dorms. The workers get back, drink, eat their s**ty pasta with tuna and try not to fall asleep while complaining about the s**t pay for s**t work.

Everyone is already too f***ed from the long days work. I would love to challenge anyone who thinks people are just being lazy for not trying for those jobs to 1. Try and get yourself one of those jobs, 2. Try and stick at it for a month. See how you end up. It's a rort that's rife with exploitation.

I've never exploited anyone in my life and I resent the insinuation

Well good on you, but the industry has well and truly earned it's reputation. The facts don't care about your feelings.

I've also had a bit of experience labouring in farms, but not with any animals, I've never been able to score those jobs and they aren't willing to accept a volunteer for work experience.

why wouldn't i want someone to work for free?

Thas was my reasoning. But I guess that's you, I've probably never applied to work for you. But the many places I have tried either straight up ignored me or turned me down. It could be for good reason, and probably is I.e. lack of insurance for the volunteer working with big animals.

Mainly with hay bailing, fire season prep, rolling up old fencing wire and collecting posts.

Don't be so harsh on all us unemployed folks, 1. this was forced on us, 2. Hundreds of people apply for jobs going around

see above if you don't fill out the form centrelink will cut you off, how many are genuinely applying?

I've come across my fair share of people who don't really want a job, they just want to get the next payment, I will never deny that there are many people like that out there, but I have addressed this in a previous comment and cannot be bother repeating it.

3. There is going to be a decent chunk of society unemployed no matter which way you slice it. 4. The "job providers" are a rort, they make billions by keeping you unemployed and playing the system.

pretty sure job providers only get paid when you get a job

That is absolutely not the case. https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/the-jobs-game/6247206 this video goes into depth about the job provider rort. It may talk about fruitpicking also, but I don't recall. It's 45mins.

There found your misinformation for you

Hopefully this formatting didn't turn out too s**t.

[Blr243]

Hands up Anyone if u ever raided a strawberry farm when you were a kid ? Unfortunately we were never smart enough to realise that the swamps , snakes, leeches and lantana we hat to crawl thru negated the benefit of a handful of strawberries

[Member-Deleted]

Hands up Anyone if u ever raided a strawberry farm when you were a kid ? Unfortunately we were never smart enough to realise that the swamps , snakes, leeches and lantana we hat to crawl thru negated the benefit of a handful of strawberries

Not me occifer... I was a choir boy. I swear. Just ask father Matthews.. He'll say I was always on my knees. He wouldn't lie!

[womble]

Did you really have to mention the snakes and leeches.
Dose’nt he have enough to cope with allready.

[TassieTiger]

Good on you FP - horse to water and all that.

[cz515]

Bang, let me answer a couple of your questions.

Damn thousands, you must have been getting out and abouts a lot. I am assuming you are in your twenties so that number is bloody hard to justify mate, bring it down to tens or hundred.

The main point of KPI is that IT IS realistically achievable for an average worker. As it is part of the job, otherwise no one could hold any job. Go look at any white collar job advertised on seek.com or any government job it will have KPI.

there will always be bad apples, and yes they are farmers who exploit foreign workers, doesn't mean all of them are like that. Same as not all Aussie workers are Dole bludgers many at bloody good hard working people. It will not do you any good in finding a job if you are already expecting bad from your boss. This vibe can be easily read by others and one very big reason you can't secure a job. Change your attitude and it will go a long way in you landing a job.

EDIT: i don't know farmerpete, but i will bet a week's wage that he has done all of the jobs on his farm. He can probably do them quicker than most of his workers as well. I haven't heard of any real farmer that sit on his arse in a cool office all day long. Unless he made his money somewhere else and wants to be a landlord with farme managers doing the hard work.

[cz515]

Screenshot_20201124-075034_Chrome.jpg (434.64 KiB) Viewed 2774 times

Click to expand and read the whole thing

[Member-Deleted]

Bang, let me answer a couple of your questions.

Damn thousands, you must have been getting out and abouts a lot. I am assuming you are in your twenties so that number is bloody hard to justify mate, bring it down to tens or hundred.

The main point of KPI is that IT IS realistically achievable for an average worker. As it is part of the job, otherwise no one could hold any job. Go look at any white collar job advertised on seek.com or any government job it will have KPI.

there will always be bad apples, and yes they are farmers who exploit foreign workers, doesn't mean all of them are like that. Same as not all Aussie workers are Dole bludgers many at bloody good hard working people. It will not do you any good in finding a job if you are already expecting bad from your boss. This vibe can be easily read by others and one very big reason you can't secure a job. Change your attitude and it will go a long way in you landing a job.

EDIT: i don't know farmerpete, but i will bet a week's wage that he has done all of the jobs on his farm. He can probably do them quicker than most of his workers as well. I haven't heard of any real farmer that sit on his arse in a cool office all day long. Unless he made his money somewhere else and wants to be a landlord with farme managers doing the hard work.

I don't think I asked any questions that you've provided "answers" for, apart from the last one, but you provided an opinion with "I'll bet" and "probably" being key words mentioned.

No no, it was definitely in the hundreds. Like I said, I used to live in backpackers. Not to mention to ones I've met through HelpX, boarding houses and workplaces. But those places combined would be less than 50 I'd say.

... Do I need to submit screenshots to prove not every job has them? They may have performance reviews instead, or neither which is also common. KPI's and Quotas are for jobs that are able to be measured in such a way and efficiency is a major priority. A lot of the job market cannot be measured in such a way. Some HR companies introduce them without really having the faintest clue of what those jobs are like.

Thanks for the "bad apples" pep talk. Hopefully you got that off your chest because you're wasting your breath. I'm not wasting my time repeating myself or arguing with silly insinuations.

I'm glad you're so confident, however I wanted his answer, or if you have personally seen bosses do the same tasks as employees and meet KPI's for at least a week I'd be interested in hearing about that. Perhaps you have done so yourself?

[Member-Deleted]

Good on you FP - horse to water and all that.

Hardly a "leading a horse to water" type of situation. If I was to use that analogy, it's more like telling me off for not wanting to drink from that watering hole because it's muddy with crocs in it.

[Member-Deleted]

Did you really have to mention the snakes and leeches.
Dose’nt he have enough to cope with allready.

[Member-Deleted]

Fun Fact: I was once offered a "job" driving hookers around to meet their John's and make sure no harm came to them. In exchange I would be allowed to park my car in the underground parking garage and sleep in it. Lady was offended I called that offer dodgy .

[mchughcb]

At some point you have to take responsibility for doing something stupid and stop trying to collect compensation.

I feel for you, but unfortunately people can coast their whole lives never taking any personal responsibility.

[TassieTiger]

Fun Fact: I was once offered a "job" driving hookers around to meet their John's and make sure no harm came to them. In exchange I would be allowed to park my car in the underground parking garage and sleep in it. Lady was offended I called that offer dodgy .

It’s all in the attitude - I’d call that an opportunity...
if I was trying to buy a new sako, rubber for the track bike, Xmas presents for kids, save for a night out, hell - put food on the table...there isn’t a lot I wouldn’t do.
Apparently (wink) - most of those girls are A sad they are in that line of work to start with (oh the irony)...B happy to talk / be friend the man that is in-effect looking out for them...C 98% driver stays in car doing sfa other than looking at phone.

[Shootermick]

Fun Fact: I was once offered a "job" driving hookers around to meet their John's and make sure no harm came to them. In exchange I would be allowed to park my car in the underground parking garage and sleep in it. Lady was offended I called that offer dodgy .

Do you happen to know if that job is still available? Asking for a friend.

[Ziege]

Fun Fact: I was once offered a "job" driving hookers around to meet their John's and make sure no harm came to them. In exchange I would be allowed to park my car in the underground parking garage and sleep in it. Lady was offended I called that offer dodgy .

I was offered the same a while back haha, was sitting in my HSV Clubby at inner city car park and was approached by a sleazy looking bloke with the typical lebbo jewellery cheap tacky gold looking chains and all that.

anyways I was earning over 100k per annum at the time and he wanted to offer me the irresistible about of 35k a year for this easy gig...

I told him to leave... peon.

[Member-Deleted]

Fun Fact: I was once offered a "job" driving hookers around to meet their John's and make sure no harm came to them. In exchange I would be allowed to park my car in the underground parking garage and sleep in it. Lady was offended I called that offer dodgy .

It’s all in the attitude - I’d call that an opportunity...
if I was trying to buy a new sako, rubber for the track bike, Xmas presents for kids, save for a night out, hell - put food on the table...there isn’t a lot I wouldn’t do.
Apparently (wink) - most of those girls are A sad they are in that line of work to start with (oh the irony)...B happy to talk / be friend the man that is in-effect looking out for them...C 98% driver stays in car doing sfa other than looking at phone.

My mother was a hooker... she... is a piece of work. s**t root too

[Member-Deleted]

Fun Fact: I was once offered a "job" driving hookers around to meet their John's and make sure no harm came to them. In exchange I would be allowed to park my car in the underground parking garage and sleep in it. Lady was offended I called that offer dodgy .

Do you happen to know if that job is still available? Asking for a friend.

I do not sorry. They just contacted me off gumtree, so maybe put an ad up saying you're willing to do escort delivery services?