Neighbours dogs repeatedly entering our land.

[Matthew9511]

Hi everyone, this my first posts here. I have an issue which I’m sure some of you might be able to offer advice about. Our neighbour has two un fenced chicken coops which they keep for egg production placed along our boundary fence in two areas about 1km part. They are currently using 5 or so Maremmas to guard their chickens. Naturally we don’t have a problem with this at all, we fully support the use of dogs for this purpose.. BUT On multiple occasions now, almost 15 times we have spotted their dogs together in a pack breaking through the fence and roaming our property.

So far they haven’t done anything wrong but we have sheep, cows in calf and young poddy calves in the paddocks they are roaming in. We are starting to become very nervous about the welfare of our livestock due to the potential risk of a dog attack. In addition to this concern the dogs have also on two instances broken through my mother in laws house fence sniffing and stalking around her house. She has become very scared to leave the house when they do this.

So far we have contacted the owner on about our concern but all he has done so far to remedy the problem is offer us permission to shoot the dogs if we see them attacking our sheep or cows. Mind my French but what a f***ing joke. I know that if we spot the dogs injure, harass or kill our livestock we can legally shoot or injure his dogs (NSW), but He doesn’t seem to get that we don’t want to shoot the dogs if we can help it and that maybe we would like to prevent an attack on the first place. We love our animals and most of them have been raised on the bottle so we don’t want to just wait for a problem to happen in the first place, especially an attack on my mother in law.

Look, I understand that there is a chance they may never be a problem but it’s the risk that something might happen which we find unacceptable. We are dog owners too so we understand how dogs work. We currently breed and work 9 dogs so we understand very well the unpredictability of the critters. They aren’t people they are animals and so if you can’t make sure you are always in control you can never guarantee that they will always behave.

This is where we stand so far. We know we can report them at this point but in the 20 or so years we have owned this land we have never had any problems with our neighbours, we would really like to resolve this issue in a civil way that won’t ruin our current relationship with them as we don’t like drama and believe sustaining a good relationship with our neighbours important. Can anybody offer any advice on how we might communicate with them in the interest of finding solutions that might be available, that’s easy to implement which can stop the dogs from coming into the property? Obviously we will report them officially as last resort but I would like to give them a chance..

Many thanks.

Edit.
Thanks everyone for the advice, we feel we have more to go on now. Sorry If I didn’t get back to everyone but I have read all your replies! I will give y’all an update on the situation over the coming weeks
Cheers!

[bah!]

Hadf some pretty mixed experiences with Maremmas as well. If they have bonded with their chooks, well they're not going to be any good for your stock to say the least.

[Wm.Traynor]

I wonder if there are traps for dogs like they have in Qld for cats. When a dog (cat) is trapped, we ring the Pound and they take it away.

[pomemax]

Maremmas sorry but they dont sound like it any colours on them may be a mixed breed if they are bonded to the chooks they wont stray can you call them to you slip a rope on call the pound cost the owner some $$$

[boingk]

Yeah, reasonable problem there. Personally I'd put the ball in his court.

I'd start with a good chat and letting him know the value of your stock. Draw up an invoice and take it with you for the chat with costs per animal. I'd play along the lines of "I want to be on good terms and don't want to hurt your dogs, I'm sure you feel the same. What you might not realise is that if I lose stock I want the income for them I otherwise would have recieved. Per animal, it'll be X dollars." If he argues that you can sell the meat from the animal even if its been injured let him know thats completely out of the question - damaged stock is (generally) euthanised and deemed not fit for consumption.

Let him know that you've documented the conversations you've had and the fact the animals are seen regularly on your property, as well as the fact you've already advised him to limit their movements to his property. A trailcam or two in areas that the stock routinely bed down for the night will help in proving it was them also. If you need to go halves in a good boundary fence with him then that may be a good solution.

Anyway, the whole point is that you let him know he'll be liable for thousands of dollars in damages should your stock be damaged by his dogs. I doubt he'll be comfortable with that prospect.

EDIT: Of course you could just shoot them. They were attacking your stock, after all. Let him argue that one and see where he gets.

[Matthew9511]

Maremmas sorry but they dont sound like it any colours on them may be a mixed breed if they are bonded to the chooks they wont stray can you call them to you slip a rope on call the pound cost the owner some $$$

They are completely white and I have compared photos of the breed with his dogs and they appear to match. Maybe they aren’t bonded…

[Harrynsw]

Shoot rabbits and foxes from your fence line on his property. It's only courteous he grant you the same leniency. Plus some people only understand this language.

[Peter988]

Can you run a single strand electric wire down the fence line?

[Blr243]

My understanding of maremma s is that they can be trained to bond and protect different types of animals and it’s a lengthy time consuming process. If they are protecting chickens they may see other animals and stock as fair game. I have heard of them bonding with a mob of cattle and not letting other cattle join that mob

[Die Judicii]

First up,,,,,, you say he has told you you can shoot them if causing problems on your property.

> Get that confirmation from him in writing.

2nd,, Those dogs will bond with his chickens as well as possibly cows/calves etc if they have been around stock in general.
The BIG problem I'd be worried about is that they are very likely to take exception to you and or the Motherinlaw.
Which, if such happens can get very nasty and very complicated.

3rd,, If the boundary fence isn't any hindrance to the dogs I'd say they are unaware of difference of ownership from one side to the other.
Maybe put up a sign explaining that to them,,,,,,,,

Which brings me back to where I started,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
You are in the country and have yourselves and your stock to care for,,,,, which would include shooting said dogs if they are causing harm.
Make the owner/s vividly aware of this legality first and foremost.
It would also be a wise move to make your local constabulary aware of the situation,,,,,,,,, so that in the event of shooting the dogs,,, none of the parties can say that they weren't warned or informed.

I've lived in the country all my life,, and sometimes even had neighbors within a kilometer.
And there is no bigger problem than neighbors that do not do the right thing concerning their dogs.

Occasional incidents (broken chain, slipped collar, etc) are to be be accepted.
But habitual mis demeanors,,,,,, in my books are NOT.

[Downunder]

Our reaction to similar is based on the neighbours reaction, effort and the behaviour of the trespassers.

I’ve had neighbours build strong enclosures within a week for wandering dogs whilst others ignore the issue of dogs chasing stock.

I’m the last primary producer in my road and take my duty of care towards stock seriously.

With exposures to both uncontrolled state park and ignorant and privileged life style properties we deal with 2 kinds of threat

Needless to say that my approach’s vary depending on the owners engagement with me.

Sometimes I’m placed in a position to do something I wouldn’t normally do (consequence) due to somebody else’s lack of care (choice), it’s unfortunate yet nessecary.





.

[NTSOG]

G'day,

If I see a dog roaming on/near my property I call the local shire By Laws officer and get him to document the issue in confidence - initially. He likes photos of such animals - photos make his job prosecuting easier. If the owner of said dog has displayed 'attitude' towards me I will also speak to the local Police. I like to get on the record with the authorities before the dog owner finds his dog dead and then makes up a sob-story.

The Police and Shire By Laws officers exist to regulate behaviour in society. An individual may be able to solve issues amicably with a dodgy neighbour without assistance, but it still pays to document and report before everything goes tits up. If issues aren't documented before an incident occurs then proving what really happened is very difficult: document or be damned!

Jim

[straightshooter]

Shoot rabbits and foxes from your fence line on his property. It's only courteous he grant you the same leniency. Plus some people only understand this language.

I hope that was said in whimsical jest.
Otherwise it can be interpreted as inciting somebody to break NSW law and place that persons firearms licence in serious jeopardy.

[bigrich]

G'day,

If I see a dog roaming on/near my property I call the local shire By Laws officer and get him to document the issue in confidence - initially. He likes photos of such animals - photos make his job prosecuting easier. If the owner of said dog has displayed 'attitude' towards me I will also speak to the local Police. I like to get on the record with the authorities before the dog owner finds his dog dead and then makes up a sob-story.

The Police and Shire By Laws officers exist to regulate behaviour in society. An individual may be able to solve issues amicably with a dodgy neighbour without assistance, but it still pays to document and report before everything goes tits up. If issues aren't documented before an incident occurs then proving what really happened is very difficult: document or be damned!

Jim

This would be a good common sense approach to the issue. You have to cover your @ss legally these days

[JohnV]

G'day,

If I see a dog roaming on/near my property I call the local shire By Laws officer and get him to document the issue in confidence - initially. He likes photos of such animals - photos make his job prosecuting easier. If the owner of said dog has displayed 'attitude' towards me I will also speak to the local Police. I like to get on the record with the authorities before the dog owner finds his dog dead and then makes up a sob-story.

The Police and Shire By Laws officers exist to regulate behaviour in society. An individual may be able to solve issues amicably with a dodgy neighbour without assistance, but it still pays to document and report before everything goes tits up. If issues aren't documented before an incident occurs then proving what really happened is very difficult: document or be damned!

Jim

This would be a good common sense approach to the issue. You have to cover your @ss legally these days

I third that . Documenting the problem and giving the neighbour a fair legal warning to fix the problem like net the fence puts you in the right . If he ignores the authorities you are better covered .

[Downunder]

Victoria, check other states legislation.
I’ve never been one to hide from my responsibility of either engagement, legal control measures or duty of care.
https://www.countrynews.com.au/news/2021/05/12/4253610/keep-your-dogs-on-your-property

[JohnV]

I worked for a few Graziers and you have the right to shoot a dog that is roaming loose on your property and harassing your stock or a person . However when it's a neighbours dog or dogs it's a bit different . Shooting the dogs straight up could start up a feud which you don't want . Try the legal route first . You could also get a shotgun reloader to make you up some salt peter or rock salt loads to scare off the dogs without really hurting them or just open up the crimp on some factory shells empty out the shot and fill it with rock salt and push the crimp back down and put a spot of craft glue on it . Get close as you can or lay in wait . The fright might keep them on their side of the fence . Clean the gun barrel well after shooting salt .

[NTSOG]

bigrich wrote: "You have to cover your @ss legally these days ..."

Correct. It takes longer to follow the letter of the Law and use the formal authorities to sort out problems of this type, but it's the only safe way in our increasingly litigious society. Keep a diary and write down everything that happened in detail just in case as soon as possible after the incident - this is important: day/date, time, place, who was present, what happened and what was said and take lots of photos.

Jim

[Matthew9511]

Maremmas sorry but they dont sound like it any colours on them may be a mixed breed if they are bonded to the chooks they wont stray can you call them to you slip a rope on call the pound cost the owner some $$$

They were on the side of the rd near our front gate eating rd kill a few weeks ago. We tried calling them over but they ran away.. They do have this wild look about them. On another occasion I was walking around our hill on the property hunting rabbits, I was stalking a nice one and out of nowhere the dogs showed up and scared them off. I was pretty annoyed about that. I yelled them away which worked but I had to go home because none of the rabbits reappeared.

[Matthew9511]

Can you run a single strand electric wire down the fence line?

That would be the best solution but we are pretty short on cash, had to sell most of our stock before the drought broke because we lost all our feed to fire. That’s why we are raising dairy beef cross poddie calves. It’s the only way we can afford to restock atm. We are going to talk to him one more time and suggest that as an option. He could even use electric chicken netting around his enclosures.

[Matthew9511]

G'day,

If I see a dog roaming on/near my property I call the local shire By Laws officer and get him to document the issue in confidence - initially. He likes photos of such animals - photos make his job prosecuting easier. If the owner of said dog has displayed 'attitude' towards me I will also speak to the local Police. I like to get on the record with the authorities before the dog owner finds his dog dead and then makes up a sob-story.

The Police and Shire By Laws officers exist to regulate behaviour in society. An individual may be able to solve issues amicably with a dodgy neighbour without assistance, but it still pays to document and report before everything goes tits up. If issues aren't documented before an incident occurs then proving what really happened is very difficult: document or be damned!

Jim

This would be a good common sense approach to the issue. You have to cover your @ss legally these days

I third that . Documenting the problem and giving the neighbour a fair legal warning to fix the problem like net the fence puts you in the right . If he ignores the authorities you are better covered .

Yep very good advice, we are keeping notes and taking as many photos as possible. We are going to keep all corespondents with him strictly on text or email. On a positive note, yesterday we did see him go out and retrieve the dogs on his own accord which is a start.

[Oldbloke]

Someone on another tread, same subject.

Shoot
Shovel
Shutup

Lol

[Harrynsw]

Someone on another tread, same subject.

Shoot
Shovel
Shutup

Lol

" which dogs ? "

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, stray/neighbours dogs on their property.

Shoot
Shovel
Shut up

Sounds good in theory.
But I guess if the dog disapears the same day they hear a gun shot you could be in strife.

[Bello]

Hi Mate
I would open channels of dialog first.
If possible via email, so you have a paper trail of all conversations and, what has been agreed upon. Someone mentioned trail cams, that too is a good idea. In the email outline exactly what has happened and what has happened to your mother in law and how she feels.
All is good while things are ok, but when it turns to sh1t, you have a paper trail to show the Police/Courts if the situation does escalate.

As you have been there for many years and you want the friendship to be maintained, I suggest your dialog should always be the way you would like to be spoken to yourself. Outline exactly what you have said above, don't threaten him/her with cost of this or that, if the dogs do this or that. These people are your neighbors and you get along and you want that to remain so. If the situation does escalate and injuries are sustained to you stock by their dogs (this may be hard to prove especially if you don't see it happen), then the courts can deal with that, threatening them with this will only get their back up.

I had a situation where the neighbor's dog came onto my place. I didn't know it was their dog at the time. I went over the next day and we had a civil chat. The dog had managed to get out of his collar and wondered over. The neighbor fixed the collar and we didn't see the dog again.
In your case perhaps something can be done to mend/fix, update the fence to prevent this from happening again. I would try and resolve the issue amicably first before you have to escalate the matter to Police/council etc.

In the end, if they don't want to comply or listen to reason, you may have to contact the authorities.
These dispute are very delicate and only you who are there can read the mood.
I wish you the best with this matter

[DaveZ]

Yeh, stray/neighbours dogs on their property.

Shoot
Shovel
Shut up

Sounds good in theory.
But I guess if the dog disapears the same day they hear a gun shot you could be in strife.

If you can get close enough, you can do the job almost silently. Or so I've heard

You've already had the conversation with him and it's obvious that he thinks it's acceptable for his animals to be on your property. I don't understand where people get this mindset from, but it seems to be ever increasing. I'd have another chat to him about the issues they are already causing and let him know that you don't want them on your land at all. Then I'd try the pound/council route. After that, if they were still a problem, they wouldn't be a problem

[NTSOG]

DaveZ: "I don't understand where people get this mindset from, but it seems to be ever increasing."

We see this issue of roaming dogs repeated nearly every time 'new chums' come to the country. One drongo told me, after his dog charged my horse one Sunday morning and the horse bolted under a low branch leading me to dive 'overboard', "I can do what I like in the country and I don't have to keep my dog on my property". Well the Shire Ranger [an ex-copper] visited the idiot's face and gave him a real serve. The same attitude can be seen from some of the packs of young lads on their trail bikes who have no understanding of how to act if they encounter livestock on the roads, especially horses. Nowadays I lock my external paddock gates - I never used to - because I don't trust the roaming bunches of lads on trail bikes not to take short-cuts through my property and leave gates open.

Jim