A Question for our American Members

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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Bugman » 16 Sep 2021, 2:41 pm

That statement reminds me of working down near the old Darling Harbour goods yard when it was demolished and the area was under significant re development .
The building unions would go on strike for just about anything. One strike was because there wasn't enough pie warmers in the lunch sheds. Another was a strike, because the workers wanted special payment for being subjected to Chinese food smells wafting across from Chinatown. Sensibility went out the window.
A mate of mine was called in to deal with a flea outbreak in a couple of the sheds. He wasn't a member of any type of union, so they would not let him in.
Crazy stuff in those days.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by bladeracer » 16 Sep 2021, 3:33 pm

Bugman wrote:That statement reminds me of working down near the old Darling Harbour goods yard when it was demolished and the area was under significant re development .
The building unions would go on strike for just about anything. One strike was because there wasn't enough pie warmers in the lunch sheds. Another was a strike, because the workers wanted special payment for being subjected to Chinese food smells wafting across from Chinatown. Sensibility went out the window.
A mate of mine was called in to deal with a flea outbreak in a couple of the sheds. He wasn't a member of any type of union, so they would not let him in.
Crazy stuff in those days.


A builder wanted me to do a job on a big union site he was running but I refused to join.
He snuck me in Sunday to do it :-)
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by bah! » 16 Sep 2021, 7:20 pm

Unions are the worst, I remember the good old days before they got in and stopped child exploitation. Oh and before those damn socialists the IWW fought for the 8 hour work day.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by disco stu » 16 Sep 2021, 7:44 pm

bah! wrote:Unions are the worst, I remember the good old days before they got in and stopped child exploitation. Oh and before those damn socialists the IWW fought for the 8 hour work day.


Yeah, but does having done good justify the stupid or over the top stuff? It swings the other way also, does doing stupid stuff wash away the good they've done?

Problem I've had in talking about this with union fan boys is that the union can do no wrong, at all. They've got a direct phone line to God, so you can't even discuss things. And if you do have a valid concern, they just go on about worker rights, safety etc. Anything good the union had done

It's pretty sad though. When an organisation who achieved things like safety in the work place, minimum worker ages, 8hr work day etc etc, and I drive past them striking or protesting about something, my first thought is "what stupid ridiculous thing are they whinging about now?" It does seem that many of them just want to make life hard for employers for no reason. That takes away from their own cause in the long run
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by bah! » 16 Sep 2021, 8:00 pm

Perceptions, yes the poor union has to pay for their own advertising, the bosses are happy to sponsor hack jobs for themselves and their mates.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by bah! » 16 Sep 2021, 8:11 pm

The SDA is pretty s**t too, bunch of sellouts to big business.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Insert random name » 16 Sep 2021, 8:29 pm

I was proud to be union when I was young and naive, getting smoko sheds, some site first aid, and drinking water type of stuff. When all that came there was not much else to go for but wages and union meetings on Thursdays to ensure a long weekend fishing. Then came the delegates sons as delegates who generally had no time on the tools and a degree in gender studies throwing their weight around. I have seen the corruption become evident as I got older among the higher ranks who have no care for their members.
There is no point in sending an employer bankrupt, you won't have a job to go to but that is the way of the union.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by wanneroo » 17 Sep 2021, 4:00 am

Back over 20 years ago when I first got out of college, I got a blue collar type job for the experience.

We were owned directly by a mega multi millionaire that mainly was a specialist in ski town property development. At one point I used to do a little side gig for him and move his Porsche and Audi around to and from various private airports back to his house.

I think for the job we did, we were compensated well. As a "full time" employee I worked about seven months of the year, got pay raises, multiple bonuses, a built in gratuity of 15% on all the work we did, very nice dental and health insurance of which we only paid $45 a month for, 401K retirement with matching, a free season ski pass(worth $600 at the time) and subsidized employee housing if we wanted it. It was so lucrative that the Aussie and Kiwi uni students we brought in as seasonal workers for winter, many would come back for multiple seasons to pay for their uni, masters degrees, even PhDs.

Anyways one of the first years I was there, this one guy was always complaining, complaining, complaining. Which contrasted with everyone else as people were pretty happy with the company. This guy went and hooked up with the teamsters union to bring them in. We had a vote on it and turned it all down. Didn't make any sense. We already liked our jobs, liked our pay/benefits and didn't see any reason to put a layer of union in between us and management.

So this guy got shot down and was all pissed off so he quit and stormed off to work for some smaller competitors. He lasted about two years or so and then came crawling back to work for us again and he got hired again, but kept his mouth shut. I used to raz him out crawling back to us to beg for his job back.

The thing with unions back in the day a hundred years ago is that it was a different world. We didn't have the mobility or communications like we do today. It's very much a marketplace in favor of employees. If you have skills, knowledge, work ethic and a reputation, you can command much interest. If you don't like a particular situation, you can punch out and go down the street somewhere else and work.

Of what unions that are left, they all became bloated bureaucracies all designed to enrich themselves rather than being an organization to advance the employees. They are just a cover for the lazy and stupid.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by cz515 » 17 Sep 2021, 7:31 am

Unions were good in the past. Now they are not

Look at how cfmeu rolled over like a puppy dog and agreed to vax.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by disco stu » 17 Sep 2021, 8:29 am

bah! wrote:The SDA is pretty s**t too, bunch of sellouts to big business.


What's SDA?

I was wondering how the vaccine thing would go down with unions CZ. Haven't been paying attention though

Got in a big argument on Facebook with friends when someone made a comment blaming the government for the low full time employment/high casual employment rate. I said that it was more likely the unions, as it's so hard for business to move on non performing employee's that they just don't want to take the risk. That's what I've been told by many employers, just don't want to take the risk with people. That went down like a Zepplin. Ironically, out of all the people commenting I was the only one employed casually, rest were all permanent. I haven't had permanent work since I was about 19,but there's a lot to the story
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by bah! » 17 Sep 2021, 8:41 am

disco stu wrote:What's SDA?



Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees Association, it is run by conservative catholics, better off under RAFFWU really.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by ZaineB » 17 Sep 2021, 12:14 pm

unions are antique garbage now, anyone with half a brain and even 1 ounce of work ethic would never need one. its that simple.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by ZaineB » 17 Sep 2021, 12:18 pm

disco stu wrote:
bah! wrote:The SDA is pretty s**t too, bunch of sellouts to big business.


What's SDA?

I was wondering how the vaccine thing would go down with unions CZ. Haven't been paying attention though

Got in a big argument on Facebook with friends when someone made a comment blaming the government for the low full time employment/high casual employment rate. I said that it was more likely the unions, as it's so hard for business to move on non performing employee's that they just don't want to take the risk. That's what I've been told by many employers, just don't want to take the risk with people. That went down like a Zepplin. Ironically, out of all the people commenting I was the only one employed casually, rest were all permanent. I haven't had permanent work since I was about 19,but there's a lot to the story



Exactly, this is why you see entrepreneurial guys n gals killing the pig and the old mindset of "employee" fodding around with nothing, the thing is the divide nowadays is pretty apparent, people that do the bare minimum and take no financial risks get nowhere, people who invest and work hard and independently think and act make a comfy to very comfy living. I don't know anyone on a "wage" personally that makes even close to the small business owners and contractors I know, that and the wage earner has less tax perks, Its kind of redundant trying to squeeze out a full time pay from a company when you could make more and have more personal freedom and pay less tax working for yourself or at least on a contract vs clocking in and out.

I will extend one olive branch, the mining sector has a lot of high wage earners, but it really is the exception, however try and muscle a mining company around and you will find out how disposable you really are as they literally cancel your accommodation and send you home with a window seat and immediately replace you with the next worker in line.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Gamerancher » 17 Sep 2021, 12:55 pm

Even in mining, the best money is in contracting. A lot of "workers" are actually labour hire and it's that company that makes the big bucks. The mines prefer to use them as they aren't tied into the "permanent" employee problems like not being able to sack a useless individual for being useless and having a flexible workforce that they can utilise for the ups and downs of mining.
The last job I did for "wages" was driving for a large transport company. Just after I started, I had a copy of an enterprise bargaining proposal handed to me. I read through it and it looked good, was going to put an extra $10k on top of my annual income, for no extra effort on my part. ( I was on a per kilometre rate ) Couple of the local drivers and mechanics from the head office yard decided to get the TWU involved,( it was a non-union yard ). That had the outcome of stalling my pay rise for twelve months, gave me nothing extra, and when read beside the company EBA, is was basically verbatim apart from the heading now said that it was between the TWU on "behalf" of the employees and the company..
The only thing added, the mechanics were to get an extra $0.40/hour when on overtime and the local round town clowns were going to get about $20/week on top.
So basically, the f#cking TWU cost me $10k.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by ZaineB » 17 Sep 2021, 2:43 pm

sounds about right gamerancher, I am 100% convinced anyone who "needs" a union is nothing but a complete loser anyway.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Die Judicii » 17 Sep 2021, 3:12 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Even in mining, the best money is in contracting. A lot of "workers" are actually labour hire and it's that company that makes the big bucks. The mines prefer to use them as they aren't tied into the "permanent" employee problems like not being able to sack a useless individual for being useless and having a flexible workforce that they can utilise for the ups and downs of mining..


Unfortunately, in my last job (b4 retiring) the use of "Labor Hire" tradesmen was just starting off in a big way,, but was a big problem at the same time.

I was in a position where I was over seeing ( QC ) the jobs being done by the Labor Hire personnel that were brought on site by management.

It was downright frustrating because a large percentage of those workers/tradesmen just simply didn't care and the end results were reflected so.
Management didn't want to stop using labor hire because of the benefits to them monetary wise,,,, while I was left chasing the labor hire companies
to send out yet another crew to rectify the stuff ups of the previous ones.

It was just a vicious circle,,,,, and I could see the writing on the wall that it wasn't gonna end well for any of the parties involved.

Shortly thereafter when it came to my final day,, I walked out and left it all behind me.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by ZaineB » 17 Sep 2021, 3:44 pm

yeah as far as i am concerned labor hire companies are worse than unions lol, but none the less both are thrust on us by in large the labor party, its their restrictive labour laws when they axed "work choices" and brought about far too many restrictions on businesses and employers of all kinds. All labors nonsense laws did was cement the jobs of useless wankers at workplaces who are destined to get the sack regardless, however thanks to rudd we now have employers more or less stuck with s**t employees until they have finally accrued enough grounds to sack them, hence the rise in labour hire and subcontracts, no one that can avoid paying someone full time is going to go that route, why would they, its more expensive, and they are then stuck with someone for better or worse. 99% of the time only useless pricks need these laws to "lock them in" to a job.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by cz515 » 17 Sep 2021, 7:47 pm

SDA was a union that lost a case in the courts where it was found they had agreed to an EBA where their members were worse off. Generally SDA employees work for Coles and wollies


Saying that I am surprised no one has mentioned how the union guys got to protest in Melbourne CBD today while the anti mask rally tomorrow will have thousands of police and rubber bullets
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by disco stu » 17 Sep 2021, 10:15 pm

As much as many unions have things to answer for, they've certainly been helpful for my wife. She is a teacher and has had to call on the unions assistance a few times and they've been great for her. Once when she fell down stairs at work and had ongoing issues, and another where her grade partner was so bad and caused so much stress she needed ongoing counseling. It's not that the school are horrible people, quite the opposite, but the decisions are made by the school board who are removed from the day to day operations and are making decisions based on financials etc.

That's the sort of thing unions are important for, representing their members. Striking because the right milk wasn't in the fridge is just stupid. If I hadn't heard local stories more than once that are extremely similar I wouldn't have actually believed that
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by ZaineB » 17 Sep 2021, 11:47 pm

disco stu wrote:As much as many unions have things to answer for, they've certainly been helpful for my wife. She is a teacher and has had to call on the unions assistance a few times and they've been great for her. Once when she fell down stairs at work and had ongoing issues, and another where her grade partner was so bad and caused so much stress she needed ongoing counseling. It's not that the school are horrible people, quite the opposite, but the decisions are made by the school board who are removed from the day to day operations and are making decisions based on financials etc.

That's the sort of thing unions are important for, representing their members. Striking because the right milk wasn't in the fridge is just stupid. If I hadn't heard local stories more than once that are extremely similar I wouldn't have actually believed that



I get what youre saying, sorta, usually a fairly inexpensive letter from a solicitor solves these issues also, as does a sound knowledge of work health and safety laws.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 6:01 am

cz515 wrote:Unions were good in the past. Now they are not

Look at how cfmeu rolled over like a puppy dog and agreed to vax.


It would seem some sections of that union were not so happy by the protest held Friday.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by cz515 » 18 Sep 2021, 7:43 am

Yep they were not happy and the police didn't do anything... strange... maybe that was the deal
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 10:33 am

cz515 wrote:Yep they were not happy and the police didn't do anything... strange... maybe that was the deal


Or unannounced.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Die Judicii » 19 Sep 2021, 10:01 pm

>>>> :silent:
Last edited by Die Judicii on 20 Sep 2021, 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Sep 2021, 11:23 pm

Die Judicii wrote:The three best forms of advertising in the world.

1) Telephone

2) Television

3) Tellawoman


Wrong thread. Should be in jokes. But your forgiven,

:lol: :lol:
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Sep 2021, 11:24 pm

cz515 wrote:Yep they were not happy and the police didn't do anything... strange... maybe that was the deal


Construction,, born to winge.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Gamerancher » 20 Sep 2021, 11:05 am

Die Judicii wrote,

"Unfortunately, in my last job (b4 retiring) the use of "Labor Hire" tradesmen was just starting off in a big way,, but was a big problem at the same time.

I was in a position where I was over seeing ( QC ) the jobs being done by the Labor Hire personnel that were brought on site by management.

It was downright frustrating because a large percentage of those workers/tradesmen just simply didn't care and the end results were reflected so.
Management didn't want to stop using labor hire because of the benefits to them monetary wise,,,, while I was left chasing the labor hire companies
to send out yet another crew to rectify the stuff ups of the previous ones
."

Yep, like with full time employees, there are good and bad workers. Some people get stuck in, have a good skill set, good work ethic and get the job done.
Others are just clock watching oxygen thieves who couldn't care less whether the job gets done right, I've worked with both. I've seen "qualified" mechanics ( 2 of them ), write off an engine in a drill rig as being stuffed because they couldn't get it to start. I was asked to have a look at it as I'd finished my allocated work.
I'm old school, so back to basics for me. Check fuel tank has fuel - yes, check fuel pump and prime the system - no, unable to prime it. So I removed the fuel line from the tank, fuel comes out - tick. Remove line from lift pump, try to prime - no fuel, okay let's look at the pump itself. After stripping it down, I found a bunch of gunk blocking the pump and a couple of dodgy O-rings, cleaned it up, replaced the O-rings, fit it back to the engine, prime fuel system, start engine, it runs perfectly.
All of this while being ridiculed by the mechanics who had said the engine was stuffed. Saved the mine $30k for a new engine that these blokes had said was needed. I was a contractor, they were permanent employees. Lazy, useless pr!cks are to be found all over in all walks of life.
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Re: A Question for our American Members

Post by Bugman » 20 Sep 2021, 11:12 am

I used to work for myself. I could sack myself on a Friday and re hire myself on a Monday. Yep! It certainly worked for me.
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