New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by cz515 » 18 Sep 2021, 7:42 am

You do realise no nukes are part of the deal.

Further to that the internal opposition to nukes will mean it will be political suicide if a govt got nukes. And it's going to get worse
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by bigrich » 18 Sep 2021, 7:55 am

cz515 wrote:You do realise no nukes are part of the deal.

Further to that the internal opposition to nukes will mean it will be political suicide if a govt got nukes. And it's going to get worse


that's what's got opponents in a flap . their thinking is it opens to door to nuke weapons . i'm opposed to nuke weapons . the advantages of nuke powered subs are very clear . from what info i know , the yank nuke engines do not ever need refuelling with new nuke rods and you have a advanced sub that never runs out of fuel and can stay underwater covertly for a long time much harder to track . pigs and dogs can hear a toyota deisel coming from a long way off . maybe a nuke powered landcruiser would be more stealthy for hunting :lol:
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 8:16 am

cz515 wrote:You do realise no nukes are part of the deal.

Further to that the internal opposition to nukes will mean it will be political suicide if a govt got nukes. And it's going to get worse


Is that directed at me?

Yes, I know that. Needs to change. US sold them to UK.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by straightshooter » 18 Sep 2021, 9:04 am

BRILLIANT!
A short time ago China let it be known that Australia will now be considered a nuclear target whether we have nukes or not. (Of course that's in the event of war.)
So for the cost of 5 or so nukes they could posses a practical Terra Nullius and unimpeded access to all it's resources.
Unless Australia does something about the true self - sufficiency fundamental to a modern independent State then the prognosis for the future is grim irrespective of what propaganda is constantly pumped into the mostly gullible public currently beset with coviditis induced anxiety.
Over the last 50 years, starting with the tall man who knew everything, Australia has effectively been 'asset stripped' in much the same way as has been done to many productive corporations in the same time frame.
Without that change of direction Australia will never be 'Kick A$$' but will forever be 'Lick A$$' except in the minds of those totally seduced and deluded by propaganda.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 10:30 am

straightshooter wrote:BRILLIANT!
A short time ago China let it be known that Australia will now be considered a nuclear target whether we have nukes or not. (Of course that's in the event of war.)
So for the cost of 5 or so nukes they could posses a practical Terra Nullius and unimpeded access to all it's resources.
Unless Australia does something about the true self - sufficiency fundamental to a modern independent State then the prognosis for the future is grim irrespective of what propaganda is constantly pumped into the mostly gullible public currently beset with coviditis induced anxiety.
Over the last 50 years, starting with the tall man who knew everything, Australia has effectively been 'asset stripped' in much the same way as has been done to many productive corporations in the same time frame.
Without that change of direction Australia will never be 'Kick A$$' but will forever be 'Lick A$$' except in the minds of those totally seduced and deluded by propaganda.


I'm sure that's been the case for some years. And not just China mate.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by cz515 » 18 Sep 2021, 4:56 pm

The only thing is, without a nuclear industry to make the fuel for these subs and then shooting conventional weapons, we will never be able to build nuclear plants to enrich uranium.

We are completely dependant on uk/USA. So what will happen if we get another Trump who wants Australia to pay their fair share and decides we need to pay them 100x for the nuclear fuel these subs... which won't be ready for about 20 years become giant paper weights.

And for those who say 20 years isn't too long. 20 years ago your mobile was the size of a brick and you made voice calls, now our phones are faster than the fastest desktop computers.

20 years ago China was a boring country
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 5:15 pm

cz515 wrote:The only thing is, without a nuclear industry to make the fuel for these subs and then shooting conventional weapons, we will never be able to build nuclear plants to enrich uranium.

We are completely dependant on uk/USA. So what will happen if we get another Trump who wants Australia to pay their fair share and decides we need to pay them 100x for the nuclear fuel these subs... which won't be ready for about 20 years become giant paper weights.

And for those who say 20 years isn't too long. 20 years ago your mobile was the size of a brick and you made voice calls, now our phones are faster than the fastest desktop computers.

20 years ago China was a boring country


The fuel lasts the life of the boat mate. No refuelling required.

We are just doing same as UK.

Their subs are US copies with US missiles.

Umm, I suspect the mushroom missiles will eventually come too. Perhaps a little later.

BTW, my bet is every capital city is already targeted by China and Russia.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by on_one_wheel » 18 Sep 2021, 5:26 pm

Yep, well have our own cans of sunshine soon, I'd put money on that one.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 6:00 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Yep, well have our own cans of sunshine soon, I'd put money on that one.


Yep, a good thing. Sad, but true.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by bigrich » 18 Sep 2021, 8:39 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Yep, well have our own cans of sunshine soon, I'd put money on that one.


nah , doubt it . not anytime soon . ironicly australia has lots of very pure uranium deposits :P
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 8:54 pm

bigrich wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Yep, well have our own cans of sunshine soon, I'd put money on that one.


nah , doubt it . not anytime soon . ironicly australia has lots of very pure uranium deposits :P


If the yanks won't sell them we can always build them.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by on_one_wheel » 18 Sep 2021, 9:18 pm

The yanks will have them parked on our soil soon.
You heard it here first :drinks:
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Sep 2021, 9:50 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:The yanks will have them parked on our soil soon.
You heard it here first :drinks:


Could be. Only need a dozen.
China has about 300
US has about 3000

They can spare 10 or 12 I reckon.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by pilotsignal » 18 Sep 2021, 11:03 pm

Who cares about how many subs we will have in 20 years. In 20 years there will be 80% of Aus population made of Chinese.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by wanneroo » 18 Sep 2021, 11:53 pm

China is already threatening to kill Australian soldiers over this and has said Australian cities are already targeted with nukes. So that tells you the type of country this is.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by boingk » 19 Sep 2021, 1:20 am

People mistake the actions of China for the preparations of war.

They are the strugglings of a drowing man.

Let them drown. They will soon be a nation of aged carers. There is no-one left for them to recruit for the war machine. Logistics are failing for them day by day, year by year. Let it fail.

All we have to do is wait.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by womble » 19 Sep 2021, 4:32 am

pilotsignal wrote:Who cares about how many subs we will have in 20 years. In 20 years there will be 80% of Aus population made of Chinese.

:lol:
That’s a fair point.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by womble » 19 Sep 2021, 4:36 am

Ok so i did my homework on dolphins as requested.
Turns out you’re right. They’re dodgy. You just can’t trust them. You think you’re training them, but you’re not winning their hearts and minds. They just want the free fish.
Apparently seals and sea lions are the way to go. Much more professional workers.
The other advantage being a seal or sea lion can also operate, beit in a limited capacity, on dry land.
Now you put a dolphin on dry land and see what happens. Not so great, all they do is complain.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by bigrich » 19 Sep 2021, 6:37 am

boingk wrote:People mistake the actions of China for the preparations of war.

They are the strugglings of a drowing man.

Let them drown. They will soon be a nation of aged carers. There is no-one left for them to recruit for the war machine. Logistics are failing for them day by day, year by year. Let it fail.

All we have to do is wait.


i reckon your not too far off the mark . i've read recent analysis that their "booming" economy is floundering . too many state backed projects, and their own hardline policies on trade with us and others is shooting themselves in the foot :D
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by bigrich » 19 Sep 2021, 6:39 am

womble wrote:Ok so i did my homework on dolphins as requested.
Turns out you’re right. They’re dodgy. You just can’t trust them. You think you’re training them, but you’re not winning their hearts and minds. They just want the free fish.
Apparently seals and sea lions are the way to go. Much more professional workers.
The other advantage being a seal or sea lion can also operate, beit in a limited capacity, on dry land.
Now you put a dolphin on dry land and see what happens. Not so great, all they do is complain.


if you can teach them to use a AR15 you'll have navy seals ! boo-rah ! :lol:
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by bigrich » 19 Sep 2021, 6:41 am

wanneroo wrote:China is already threatening to kill Australian soldiers over this and has said Australian cities are already targeted with nukes. So that tells you the type of country this is.


we'll add it to our threats list . amazes me how many latte drinking ,lefty soft c@cks in the citys fall for that sort of verbal bullying . the leader of the greens is running scared already :roll:
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Sep 2021, 7:22 am

boingk wrote:People mistake the actions of China for the preparations of war.

They are the strugglings of a drowing man.

Let them drown. They will soon be a nation of aged carers. There is no-one left for them to recruit for the war machine. Logistics are failing for them day by day, year by year. Let it fail.

All we have to do is wait.


Some good points there.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by wrenchman » 22 Sep 2021, 8:37 am

As a American I don't understand why you guys don't have it already we have had each other's back ever since ww1 it should be there for the asking
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by cz515 » 22 Sep 2021, 8:40 am

Paul Keating an Ex Prime Minister of Australia said it quite well today in the media


“It takes a monster level of incompetence to forfeit military control of one’s own state”, he said, “but this is what Scott Morrison and his government have managed to do”
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by on_one_wheel » 22 Sep 2021, 9:40 am

cz515 wrote:Paul Keating an Ex Prime Minister of Australia said it quite well today in the media


“It takes a monster level of incompetence to forfeit military control of one’s own state”, he said, “but this is what Scott Morrison and his government have managed to do”


How exactly has Scomo forfeited military control?
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by straightshooter » 22 Sep 2021, 10:22 am

George Orwell was presciently correct.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by straightshooter » 22 Sep 2021, 10:31 am

As for the Bugger from Bankstown, he should of all people know. In cahoots with the silver bodgie and at the same time exploiting the people whose interests they purported to represent, sold the serious side of Australian manufacturing down the drain.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by Oldbloke » 22 Sep 2021, 10:59 am

on_one_wheel wrote:
cz515 wrote:Paul Keating an Ex Prime Minister of Australia said it quite well today in the media


“It takes a monster level of incompetence to forfeit military control of one’s own state”, he said, “but this is what Scott Morrison and his government have managed to do”


How exactly has Scomo forfeited military control?


Yeh, seems designed to cause worry. We just walked next door to a different shop.
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by bigrich » 22 Sep 2021, 11:51 am

Read on my news feed yesterday that UK subs are going to be stopping in more often for resupply . I’m getting all nostalgic, this is the allies back together again, except this time the Germans and Japs are on our side.
Won’t mention the French, New Zealand hasn’t been on good terms with them since the rainbow warrior sinking
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Re: New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

Post by cz515 » 23 Sep 2021, 6:40 am

That's keeting comments. Go read what he said in full ya lazy. Pity if only some of the brains had been transferred down you won't have needed to ask the question. But maybe I need to explain so to appease the sheeple and spoon feed them.

the arrangement results in a loss of Australian sovereignty and commits Australia to further involvement with Americans. but the question is do we stand independent or be slaves to US (or for that matter China). I rather we stand independent and neutral.

There is huge doubt about Australia’s ability to cope with advanced submarine technology. We have had difficulty in running a bunch of Australian built conventional submarines – imagine the difficulty in moving to sophisticated nuclear submarines, their maintenance, and operational complexity. Go see the problem we are having with Collins class subs. But more recently the design and technical issues surrounding the Hunter class frigates and Land 400 vehicles.

Historically most of our defence contracts have always been failures or compromises and run way over budget. It generally costs USD3+ billion dollars in the states to build a nuclear submarine with industry already in place (a conventional submarine
lot less) These new subs with their 40% Australian content will mean we will need to setup some of those industries here, and unlike a chook raffle it's extremely complex stuff (or everyone be building nuclear subs). But we are still dependant on US for fixing all of the complex systems. So we be driving a bus and America will be the manufacturer and the mechanic. At terms set by the whim of any future president of America.

No country in the world has nuclear subs/boats without their own nuclear industry... go think about that for a second

But let's go back a step, we were getting 12 s**ty subs from France for 90 billion. How much do you think these nuclear subs will cost each? The devil is in the detail boys... and you will never know. But lets guess if a diesel sub was going to cost 8 billion dollars (there is a lot of fat there seeing USA builds a nuclear one for 4billion aud) you can bet the nuclear one would end up double that before cost over runs so likely 20+ billion to build one of them. And what could you get for all these billions of dollars worth of black shiny rocks, which won't be ready for they saying 20 years. We could be Chinese state by then.

And finally the other argument, where with a defence force of 50,000 people and I repeat with no nuclear missile capabilities how do you even expect to stop an invasion long enough for the yanks to get here.

The reality is no country wants a war now a days. The biggest warmongering countries at the moment are Israel, China and India. While they might have skirmishes with their neighbours but there hasn't been an actual war for 40+ years. India does not even have a toilet for 70% of their population but yet they spend billions every year on military, the question is do we want to be like that?

Do we want to waste hundreds of billions for 40 years preparing for a war that will not happen. As China is more interested in $$$ than outright war. Or it would have already taken over Taiwan. And tiawan have an army 6 times larger than ours and a fraction of the area to defend.

And finally I rather this money be spent in Australia on Australians, including heath, education etc. our universities deserve more money so they don't have to rely on foreign students. Our old shouldn't be waiting for 3 to 5 years in pain to get a hip replacement. Our diggers shouldn't have to live a life of poverty and pain after retirement, Our RSL clubs shouldn't need to run pokies to fund activities. I could go on, hopefully some of you get the point


So did I have an answer. Yes I did. Will you be willing to open your sheeple minds and digest the info.... I doubt some would
Last edited by cz515 on 23 Sep 2021, 7:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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