Taiwan v China

[womble]

I don’t actually give a s**t about Taiwan.
Would rather we did’nt get involved.

[Oldbloke]

I don't particularly care much about Taiwan either, its the next step(s) I'm worried about. Give a bully an inch, he wants the full yard.

"Would rather we did’nt get involved."
That's the mistake they made with Hitler.

[Bugman]

[quote="Oldbloke"]I don't particularly care much about Taiwan either, its the next step(s) I'm worried about. Give a bully an inch, he wants the full yard.

"Would rather we did’nt get involved."
That's the mistake they made with Hitler.

Gotta agree. Worrying as the threat may be.

[bigrich]

I don't particularly care much about Taiwan either, its the next step(s) I'm worried about. Give a bully an inch, he wants the full yard.

"Would rather we did’nt get involved."
That's the mistake they made with Hitler.

exactly first taiwan , then malaysia ? japan ?

[womble]

Ok so get involved in so far as medical ships, aid, refugees, asylum. Peace keeping maybe.
Absolutely recognise their independence.
But not interested in dropping bombs on people. Not my problem. They all look the same to me anyway. If they want to chop suey each other, go for it. I don’t care. None of my business.

[bigrich]

united we stand , divided we fall

[womble]

That’s true.
But how are we united with Taiwan ?
They’re not part of the quad or 5 eyes or nato.
Officially we don’t recognise Taiwan as an independent nation. In fact we recognise the Chinese gov as the sole legal government of the province of Taiwan.
We export a crapload of coal, iron ore and natural gas to taiwan. Plus anything else foods and wine, agricultural products, whatever. Assuming the chinese still let us.
But is that why we should send young men to die in a war. To protect our coal industry.

I mean if china directly assaults any member of the above mentioned alliances then sure we should get in there as part of a united front.
But if they just annexe taiwan we don’t really have a reason to arc up about it. Because officially since i think early 70’s we’ve been perfectly fine with it. And to our own benefit.

But anyway, fwiw, we don’t even get a say in what plays out. Our military forces come under direct American authority should they engage china over this. That’s the deal. We don’t get a choice. We don’t play any role in the decision. We just follow orders.
Which in itself is just messed up.

So personally, just give them taiwan and tell them where they can stick it.

[bigrich]

That’s true.
But how are we united with Taiwan ?
They’re not part of the quad or 5 eyes or nato.
Officially we don’t recognise Taiwan as an independent nation. In fact we recognise the Chinese gov as the sole legal government of the province of Taiwan.
We export a crapload of coal, iron ore and natural gas to taiwan. Plus anything else foods and wine, agricultural products, whatever. Assuming the chinese still let us.
But is that why we should send young men to die in a war. To protect our coal industry.

I mean if china directly assaults any member of the above mentioned alliances then sure we should get in there as part of a united front.
But if they just annexe taiwan we don’t really have a reason to arc up about it. Because officially since i think early 70’s we’ve been perfectly fine with it. And to our own benefit.

But anyway, fwiw, we don’t even get a say in what plays out. Our military forces come under direct American authority should they engage china over this. That’s the deal. We don’t get a choice. We don’t play any role in the decision. We just follow orders.
Which in itself is just messed up.

So personally, just give them taiwan and tell them where they can stick it.

Europe was a long way away as well, shoulda just let the nazi’s have it and stayed home
If there’s one thing WW2 taught, it’s that the free nations stand together to beat aggression of totalitarian regimes. If the situation was Australia was under threat of attack we would want help from other free nations. We wouldn’t like it if they said “ not in our backyard, too far away, who cares “ that’s what stand together, divided we fall means. It’s not just about Taiwan. It’s about China using Taiwan as a base to claim more sovereignty over the South China Sea . Trade routes which affect Japan and the whole of south east Asia are at risk. Not to mention resources and fishing grounds. China is embarking on global domination. They need to be pulled up now before their on our doorstep. The world is a smaller place and sending troops of to foreign lands is nothing new. But it’s the price of freedom. With the resources and land we have here, the threat of US military assistance is the only thing deterring China,or Indonesia from possibly attacking. It’s definitely not our meagre defence force, or a few nutters from EG with hunting rifles

[womble]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-04/taiwan-preparing-for-war-with-china/100511294

Well it’s a big ask

[Oldbloke]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-04/taiwan-preparing-for-war-with-china/100511294

Well it’s a big ask

Yeh, saw that on "China tonight" last night. They appear determined.

That aside, I wish Stan Grant would stop putting on so much brown make-up. Lol

[Oldbloke]

That’s true.
But how are we united with Taiwan ?
They’re not part of the quad or 5 eyes or nato.
Officially we don’t recognise Taiwan as an independent nation. In fact we recognise the Chinese gov as the sole legal government of the province of Taiwan.
We export a crapload of coal, iron ore and natural gas to taiwan. Plus anything else foods and wine, agricultural products, whatever. Assuming the chinese still let us.
But is that why we should send young men to die in a war. To protect our coal industry.

I mean if china directly assaults any member of the above mentioned alliances then sure we should get in there as part of a united front.
But if they just annexe taiwan we don’t really have a reason to arc up about it. Because officially since i think early 70’s we’ve been perfectly fine with it. And to our own benefit.

But anyway, fwiw, we don’t even get a say in what plays out. Our military forces come under direct American authority should they engage china over this. That’s the deal. We don’t get a choice. We don’t play any role in the decision. We just follow orders.
Which in itself is just messed up.

So personally, just give them taiwan and tell them where they can stick it.

Europe was a long way away as well, shoulda just let the nazi’s have it and stayed home
If there’s one thing WW2 taught, it’s that the free nations stand together to beat aggression of totalitarian regimes. If the situation was Australia was under threat of attack we would want help from other free nations. We wouldn’t like it if they said “ not in our backyard, too far away, who cares “ that’s what stand together, divided we fall means. It’s not just about Taiwan. It’s about China using Taiwan as a base to claim more sovereignty over the South China Sea . Trade routes which affect Japan and the whole of south east Asia are at risk. Not to mention resources and fishing grounds. China is embarking on global domination. They need to be pulled up now before their on our doorstep. The world is a smaller place and sending troops of to foreign lands is nothing new. But it’s the price of freedom. With the resources and land we have here, the threat of US military assistance is the only thing deterring China,or Indonesia from possibly attacking. It’s definitely not our meagre defence force, or a few nutters from EG with hunting rifles

I get both sides of the argument. The idea of a major war frightens the hell out of me. We all have families. But in the end I think China (Xi) will be the one making the decision for us. And because we will likely have two major powers fighting it could well be huge. Nothing like Afghanistan and a lot more deaths than WW11.

[cz515]

The Chinese have their own political agenda, that includes Xi pledge that he will sort Taiwan before 2027. Taiwan was always an island of China and its history is murky

1945, following the end of World War II, the nationalist government of the Republic of China (ROC), led by the Kuomintang (KMT), took control of Taiwan. In 1949, after losing control of mainland China in the Chinese Civil War, the ROC government under the KMT withdrew to Taiwan and Chiang Kai-shek declared martial law.

This is why China still considers Taiwan as a part of China. Considering the disputed nature of things, I won't want to put my hand inside the hornets nest.

As far as Malaysia, Indonesia and other countries in the region, if they have good diplomatic relations they have no worries. Chinese is about business not fighting anyway. Even AUS or NZ as long as they don't go in for a fight China will not care any which way.

And lastly wars are fought through air, they will base their planes in a pacific island nation, and bomb all power plants, and key infrastructure..... or they could park a nuclear sub near the eastern seaboard and threaten to fire a nuclear missile, with no loss of life on their part and job done in 60 minutes.

but the biggest thing in our favour is not that we have 40,000 defence force personnel to China's 1 million, but the simple fact we are 10,000km from China and a huge land mass, just too bloody hard to defend such a large area and keep the supply line defended. No military commander is that dumb.

Australian Politicians could do it..by scaring the sheeple for their own political gains

[cz515]

People keep on taking about trade routes.

What trade routes, you mean where quayside sends minerals to China, or those routes where China sends stuff to Australia. Or maybe those routes that go into ports like Hong Kong which are own by Chinese government. And a large proportion of shipping companies are again owned or pay owned by Chinese companies.

People keep on bringing up Germany, well Germany only fight its neighbours, it couldn't even cross the less than 100km to get to the English main land. The reason America got into Iraq was cuz it's neighbour Saudi arabia (into Kuwait then iraq). Current Chinese disputes are with neighbours. All these wars are fought for geopolitical reasons and only where there is easy access to get men and defend their supply lines.

[Blackened]

Too many posts needing to be removed on this topic.

Locked.