Honestly, our democratic system is a joke.

[Oldbloke]

It's a disgrace. Why would we vote for the LNP? Not that I would vote for any of the major parties.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/ ... /100586310

Sooo, our hard earned taxes are a slowly being moved to big business.

In addition to this is was exposed (ABC Last week on "big deal") that the LNP received $165 Million and the ALP $125 Million in donations, mainly from big business at the last federal election. And only about half is transparent, the rest secret

Pretty rooted IMHO.

What happened to the Ozzie "fair go"?

[Bugman]

The Ozzie "fair go" me thinks, is "far gone" It is a disgrace.

[northdude]

you should see our muppets at work

[on_one_wheel]

you should see our muppets at work

We've all heard about the desk masterbating, drunken passed out chick raping, pedophilic morons that run our country.

[Oldbloke]

The better off (more assets) you are the less tax you pay.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-02/ ... /100586728

Suggested investigation into covid and pissed off China. (Poor diplomacy)
Was OS during bush fires.
Poorly implemented vaccine roll-out.
Pissed off Frogs the way he announced sub deal. (Poor diplomacy)
Dinosaur's when it comes to climate change.
Will not disclose donations party receives.
Will not support any form of over sight similar to ICAC.

And talk about musical chairs.

2007-08 B Nelson
2008-09 M Turnbul
2013-15 T Abbott
2015-18 M Turnbul
2018 S Morrison

Don't get me wrong. I will not vote for any of them this mob is looking decidedly pathetic.

And this is not a covid thread.

[animalpest]

Umm "125 billion in donations" is just a tad wrong

[Oldbloke]

Umm "125 billion in donations" is just a tad wrong

My mistake. Million.
I have change the OP.

[bigrich]

Umm "125 billion in donations" is just a tad wrong

yup , who's behind the donations is the worry . i do believe kevin rudd's wife's company received donations from chinese businesses back in the day . with direct links to the peoples party . not sorry he went . total lay down for the commies

still , i think sco-mo's better than some of the alternatives apparently the french president is known for cracking hissy fits . the sub deal was a bad deal for oz set up by a previous government more concerned about local jobs for good poll results rather than equiping our military with state of the art gear to make any potential aggressors think twice

[Oldbloke]

Umm "125 billion in donations" is just a tad wrong

yup , who's behind the donations is the worry . i do believe kevin rudd's wife's company received donations from chinese businesses back in the day . with direct links to the peoples party . not sorry he went . total lay down for the commies

still , i think sco-mo's better than some of the alternatives apparently the french president is known for cracking hissy fits . the sub deal was a bad deal for oz set up by a previous government more concerned about local jobs for good poll results rather than equiping our military with state of the art gear to make any potential aggressors think twice

Agree, it was a stupid deal. The new deal is better for defence. Who would fit a 2 stroke victor into a 650cc racer. (Turnbullshit apparently) But the pattern emerging seems to be reactive government with SFA nause regarding diplomacy.

And all donations over $100 should be transparent within 24 hrs.

[duncan61]

I conversely feel this government is one of the best performing in my lifetime.You have started with an article by a rabid left organisation the ABC who are supposed to be nuetral.Imagine there was no support for anyone before you complain about who got it and where.The greens prevented the backburning of the area where the bushfires started to 9% of the amount intended.The faces of the protestors that stopped the fire management plan were blanked out so relatives could not find them and burn them out.What was Scomo supposed to do in this age of the internet.Did he light the fires?I am proud of our Government for daring to ask the question to the Chinese about this virus.The Chinese responded badly and we sold our anthracite coal to Russia and Russia sold their brown coal to China.You need good carbon to make good steel.I have had my first jab as I wished to have time to decide.The vaccinations are proving to not be the answer and my wife has had her third shot already.When something happens you have to do something masks vaccinations try anything.I am fortunate in W.A. we had mask wearing for a week.We have shut our borders and keeping it that way.Why does everyone wish to go somewhere else all the time.We are fence sitting on climate change as it is not even close to being real.What does Australia realy have to do.The world calls us a polluter because we sell coal and gas overseas not because we actualy contribute even if warming was somehow manmade and where has the warming gone?The other 2 topics do not even matter.To have a bleat about the government is your god given right but not on this forum.Regards Duncan

[womble]

I think the abc has been pandering too much to the right in more recent times. There’s a legitimate fear the the LNP will just punish it with funding cuts. Murdock has always wanted to destroy it. Before long it could well be the only corruption watchdog we have left.
But then I’ve also seen a dramatic shift from newscorp recently. I forget which son controls it now but he’s not like his father. Don’t know if thats a compassionate bend or a liberal bend.
It’s not perfect but it is the only public media we have.
I think most peoples political perspective in Australia has been a slow boil since Howard, where they now see the right as the centre.
We dont really have a major party for social democracy or a major party for liberals. The greens and the wackos have filled that’s void.
News and global perspective on just about everything is heavily filtered for the general Aussie public.
I don’t think we’ve ever seen anything like the powers and control this government holds over our lives. And they operate in complete secrecy without any transparency or accountability.
And the opposition probably worries just as much if not more.
I think we’ll see the rise of a lot of independents next election which will bring its own problems but we might start to function here more democratically.

Climate change I’m skeptical. But then I’ve never been a fan of polluting the environment.
I think given our geographic position we should be attracting investment and developing and marketing renewable energy tech. Real or not that’s an opportunity for us on the global market which we could be a big player in.

[bigrich]

I think the abc has been pandering too much to the right in more recent times. There’s a legitimate fear the the LNP will just punish it with funding cuts. Murdock has always wanted to destroy it. Before long it could well be the only corruption watchdog we have left.
But then I’ve also seen a dramatic shift from newscorp recently. I forget which son controls it now but he’s not like his father. Don’t know if thats a compassionate bend or a liberal bend.
It’s not perfect but it is the only public media we have.
I think most peoples political perspective in Australia has been a slow boil since Howard, where they now see the right as the centre.
We dont really have a major party for social democracy or a major party for liberals. The greens and the wackos have filled that’s void.
News and global perspective on just about everything is heavily filtered for the general Aussie public.
I don’t think we’ve ever seen anything like the powers and control this government holds over our lives. And they operate in complete secrecy without any transparency or accountability.
And the opposition probably worries just as much if not more.
I think we’ll see the rise of a lot of independents next election which will bring its own problems but we might start to function here more democratically.

Climate change I’m skeptical. But then I’ve never been a fan of polluting the environment.
I think given our geographic position we should be attracting investment and developing and marketing renewable energy tech. Real or not that’s an opportunity for us on the global market which we could be a big player in.

Good post. I agree

[womble]

Both majors share the same vision. Which is just more of the same. And for us that’s just chipping away till we all fall in line with WA.
But theres a political void or vacancy for libertarians. That might be breakaway liberals or the liberal dems. But it’s happening behind the scenes.
But newscorp dose’nt ever cover that. And it rarely even gets a mention from the left either.

[Oldbloke]

I think the abc has been pandering too much to the right in more recent times. There’s a legitimate fear the the LNP will just punish it with funding cuts. Murdock has always wanted to destroy it. Before long it could well be the only corruption watchdog we have left.
But then I’ve also seen a dramatic shift from newscorp recently. I forget which son controls it now but he’s not like his father. Don’t know if thats a compassionate bend or a liberal bend.
It’s not perfect but it is the only public media we have.
I think most peoples political perspective in Australia has been a slow boil since Howard, where they now see the right as the centre.
We dont really have a major party for social democracy or a major party for liberals. The greens and the wackos have filled that’s void.
News and global perspective on just about everything is heavily filtered for the general Aussie public.
I don’t think we’ve ever seen anything like the powers and control this government holds over our lives. And they operate in complete secrecy without any transparency or accountability.
And the opposition probably worries just as much if not more.
I think we’ll see the rise of a lot of independents next election which will bring its own problems but we might start to function here more democratically.

Climate change I’m skeptical. But then I’ve never been a fan of polluting the environment.
I think given our geographic position we should be attracting investment and developing and marketing renewable energy tech. Real or not that’s an opportunity for us on the global market which we could be a big player in.

Yes, my main concern is the secrecy and lack of transparency.

I'm all for more independent MPs. We really need them badly. Other wise the part machine takes over and there is little if any free thinking in parliament.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

Vote for Pauline, Bob Katter, lib dems and whatever other minor party or independents you can. I really hope this federation of self governing states delinks as Canberra has lost its way and the states no longer have anything in common. Queensland is bad enough with all the freedom haters that live in the South East which control the states politics. I feel no kinship with Victoria, New South Wales or Western Australia. They are all terrible places to live in if you value freedom as far as I am concerned.

North Queensland and possibly Central Queensland are not perfect but they seem to be the only places left in the country that love freedom and the idea of leave me alone to live my life.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

How does that old saying go? Democracy is just two wolves and a lamb deciding on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.

[bigrich]

Both majors share the same vision. Which is just more of the same. And for us that’s just chipping away till we all fall in line with WA.
But theres a political void or vacancy for libertarians. That might be breakaway liberals or the liberal dems. But it’s happening behind the scenes.
But newscorp dose’nt ever cover that. And it rarely even gets a mention from the left either.

Personally I think the libs are better than labour, there is growing support in that part towards a more right based point of view.
I’ve always voted for independent pollies and auntie Pauline. I don’t agree with everything she says, but I do agree with her not being shy to speak her mind rather than go along with the “party line “
Just my opinions
Transparency in donations would be very embarrassing for a lot of pollies. Auntie Pauline was exposed for seeking NRA donations. I actually don’t think that’s a bad thing for someone who’s into firearms but ......

[cz515]

CIC if you want freedom, the borders are open a flight costs about 2k and you can be in the land of the free.


Regarding voting minor parties. Well here is a funny thing currently in the senate of Victoria you have the animal rights guy who actually got less than 100 votes, but due to preference deals is earning about 400k of taxpayer funds, but more importantly, him with fiona of the sex party are there three cross benchers that allowed the extension of the state of disaster and the draconian covid rules, and the latest law where Dan or another premier can declare a pandemic even if we do not have any cases in Australia let alone Victoria, and can extend it indefinitely without any oversight of any form.

Regarding tax, it is a complicated field. But I maintain why should someone who has worked hard, saved harder, paid their full share of taxes and built wealth in form of shares or investment properties, then in their retirement be made to give them up or be double taxed on them.
As far as dividend is concerned the company pays tax at 30% rate already, and ultimately b the truth is the income is added to your income anyway and you still pay tax if your marginal tax rate is higher than 30%.
As far as rental properties, owners pay land tax, and the income gets added to their taxable income anyway.

All of this appears more to be tall poppy syndrome.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

CZ515 We are the most taxed country in the world basically and we get nothing for it. The greens want to bring back the death tax because they hate intergenerational wealth. Imagine leaving a few hundred grand to the kids or grand kids that has already been taxed and Canberra wants to take half of it.

[Oldbloke]

CIC if you want freedom, the borders are open a flight costs about 2k and you can be in the land of the free.

Agree


Regarding voting minor parties. Well here is a funny thing currently in the senate of Victoria you have the animal rights guy who actually got less than 100 votes, but due to preference deals is earning about 400k of taxpayer funds, but more importantly, him with fiona of the sex party are there three cross benchers that allowed the extension of the state of disaster and the draconian covid rules, and the latest law where Dan or another premier can declare a pandemic even if we do not have any cases in Australia let alone Victoria, and can extend it indefinitely without any oversight of any form.

To be fair I think that's tin hat stuff. Doing that would be political suicide.


Regarding tax, it is a complicated field. But I maintain why should someone who has worked hard, saved harder, paid their full share of taxes and built wealth in form of shares or investment properties, then in their retirement be made to give them up or be double taxed on them.
As far as dividend is concerned the company pays tax at 30% rate already, and ultimately b the truth is the income is added to your income anyway and you still pay tax if your marginal tax rate is higher than 30%.
As far as rental properties, owners pay land tax, and the income gets added to their taxable income anyway.

All of this appears more to be tall poppy syndrome.

Understand what your saying about tax above. Agree in principle. But some asset owners are paying a lot less tax than wage earners. Should all be treated the same IMO.

Regarding companies, I was told recently (not sure how accurate) that now they only pay 15% not 31%.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The libs at least try to lube me up before they molest me. Labor always go in dry.

[Oldbloke]

The libs at least try to lube me up before they molest me. Labor always go in dry.

But independent use condoms as well.

[Veetwin]

I conversely feel this government is one of the best performing in my lifetime.You have started with an article by a rabid left organization the ABC who are supposed to be neutral.Imagine there was no support for anyone before you complain about who got it and where.The greens prevented the back burning of the area where the bush fires started to 9% of the amount intended.The faces of the protestors that stopped the fire management plan were blanked out so relatives could not find them and burn them out.What was Scomo supposed to do in this age of the internet.Did he light the fires?I am proud of our Government for daring to ask the question to the Chinese about this virus.The Chinese responded badly and we sold our anthracite coal to Russia and Russia sold their brown coal to China.You need good carbon to make good steel.I have had my first jab as I wished to have time to decide.The vaccinations are proving to not be the answer and my wife has had her third shot already.When something happens you have to do something masks vaccinations try anything.I am fortunate in W.A. we had mask wearing for a week.We have shut our borders and keeping it that way.Why does everyone wish to go somewhere else all the time.We are fence sitting on climate change as it is not even close to being real.What does Australia really have to do.The world calls us a polluter because we sell coal and gas overseas not because we actually contribute even if warming was somehow man made and where has the warming gone?The other 2 topics do not even matter.To have a bleat about the government is your god given right but not on this forum.Regards Duncan

Absolutely correct. The ABC are the joke, you would have to be very silly to believe anything they say, proven extremists that ignore the facts all too often. our government have performed amazingly well

[womble]

The libs at least try to lube me up before they molest me. Labor always go in dry.

How can you know that if you’re passed out from a spiked drink.

[womble]

I conversely feel this government is one of the best performing in my lifetime.You have started with an article by a rabid left organization the ABC who are supposed to be neutral.Imagine there was no support for anyone before you complain about who got it and where.The greens prevented the back burning of the area where the bush fires started to 9% of the amount intended.The faces of the protestors that stopped the fire management plan were blanked out so relatives could not find them and burn them out.What was Scomo supposed to do in this age of the internet.Did he light the fires?I am proud of our Government for daring to ask the question to the Chinese about this virus.The Chinese responded badly and we sold our anthracite coal to Russia and Russia sold their brown coal to China.You need good carbon to make good steel.I have had my first jab as I wished to have time to decide.The vaccinations are proving to not be the answer and my wife has had her third shot already.When something happens you have to do something masks vaccinations try anything.I am fortunate in W.A. we had mask wearing for a week.We have shut our borders and keeping it that way.Why does everyone wish to go somewhere else all the time.We are fence sitting on climate change as it is not even close to being real.What does Australia really have to do.The world calls us a polluter because we sell coal and gas overseas not because we actually contribute even if warming was somehow man made and where has the warming gone?The other 2 topics do not even matter.To have a bleat about the government is your god given right but not on this forum.Regards Duncan

Absolutely correct. The ABC are the joke, you would have to be very silly to believe anything they say, proven extremists that ignore the facts all too often. our government have performed amazingly well

You think Ita Buttrose is an extremist ?
Or someone or other else on the board ?

[allthegearandnoidea]

Duncan - genuine question
Can you explain why you think the current LNP
Is this really the best government in your lifetime?
In mine I’ve seen real reform from libs and Labor but honestly I’m racking my brains to see much from this bunch
There are no economic reforms no tax reforms
No nation building projects
The only plan to increase productivity and growth is to continue the immigration ponzi scheme
AUKUS is just a smokescreen- read Greg Sheridan in the Australian to see what a debacle that is -
Job keeper borders on criminal waste while poor buggers overpaid through robodebt have been hounded (often tosuicide) to repay nickel and dime debts
There are still people living in tents 2 years after the bushfires ffs!
What vision does Morrison have for Australia?
Here’s a guy that has to rely on moral direction from Jenny yet proudly wears his Christianity on his sleeve
As for China - sure we need to stand up to China but we’ve shot ourselves in the foot by allowing ourselves to become so beholden to theCCP - mismanagement of the relationship to allow our farmers and producers to suffer such losses
And surprise surprise- far from pressuring China, ourALLIES the US have benefited by selling their lobsters and beef to China!! Who needs enemies with friends like that
Smarter diplomacy would’ve helped us reconcile a lot of this

[womble]

Whole lot of royal commissions that never would have even been exposed without public media.
Can’t begin to imagine where we’d be today without shows like 4 corners or foreign correspondent.
Oh yes i can, we’d be mushrooms wallowing in s**t so deep we’d never see the light of day.
Both sides of government hate the abc. And that’s a good thing for us.
If all we had was corporate media none of them would ever be held up to scrutiny for anything.

[bigrich]

bugger it ! this is all too depressing . i'm gunna shoot my 45-70 on sunday, that'll cheer me up !

[Smiley]

bugger it ! this is all too depressing . i'm gunna shoot my 45-70 on sunday, that'll cheer me up !

Good idea. A 45-70 is good medicine in all sorts of ways.

[cz515]

OB, where you read that. It is going to 25% but not 15%. Anyway company tax rates. Larger companies pay 30% those with turnover of 25m pay lower rates.
https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Company-tax/

Would you care to explain what asset owners pay less than wage earners.

If you saying a person who owns rental properties. Well all rent collected is cleared as income and goes in income section and taxed at their marginal. The only benefit is they can claim maintenance and depreciation, and interest on loan. Again I don't understand an issue. It's like I work as a taxi driver, I can claim running expenses of the vehicle, interest on the loan etc.

If you are taking advice shares, I have explained above, any profit on sale of shares goes straight to your income, any dividends have franking credits, dividends is share of profits, and franking credits is your share of tax the company paid. Now this gets added to your tax return as income and tax already paid. The only funky thing is if your marginal rate is less than 30% you might get a tax refund.

Sure exceptional circumstances can make them appear to be preferential treatment. But in generally everyone pays similar tax and has same ways available to get deductions. The only exception that can afford paying 40 or 100k to an accountant who can then find legal ways to minimise tax