The Defense of Australia.

General conversation and chit chat - The place for non-shooting specific topics. Introduce yourself here.

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by bigrich » 27 Feb 2022, 7:23 am

markg wrote:The only option we have is a significant offensive missile defense system. With that we could wreak havoc on enemy ships and planes. Sneaky subs would make life difficult for aggressors. Hypersonics are the future. Mandatory National Service for 2 yrs. Nuclear reactors to fuel subs. Make it law to reserve gas and oil supplies wholly for Australia. Reopen refineries that were stupidly closed. Get rid of weak Green leftist radicals and all the other PC Gender rubbish that has made western society weak.


agree 1000% :friends: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by bigrich » 27 Feb 2022, 7:24 am

womble wrote:If you find a cheaper kalashnikov anywhere else, Bunnings will beat it by 10% :thumbsup:


:lol: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Kel » 27 Feb 2022, 8:39 am

IMHO The most expedient and greatest deterrent Australia can have over Chinese invasion is submarine launched cruise missiles carrying tactical nukes.
User avatar
Kel
Private
Private
 
Posts: 55
Queensland

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Kel » 27 Feb 2022, 8:53 am

Presently there is little to dissuade China from using tactical nukes against Brisbane and Darwin to make a point to the Australian military, Australian Government and Australian people that China has the ability and the will to inflict such damage and loss of life and continued resistance will incur more of the same.

China would have to think hard about those moves if Australia independently had the ability to counter attack/escalate with tactical nukes.

This is all within the realms of possibility as articulated In the recent book written by USN Admiral Jim Stavridis. Pretty sure that as commander of a USN Carrier battle group he had a few clues as to how a conflict with China would progress step by step.
User avatar
Kel
Private
Private
 
Posts: 55
Queensland

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Feb 2022, 9:33 am

Kel wrote:IMHO The most expedient and greatest deterrent Australia can have over Chinese invasion is submarine launched cruise missiles carrying tactical nukes.


Exactly
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by geoff » 06 Mar 2022, 12:24 am

The generation that went to school learning to hide under a desk from a nuke thinks that we should have more of them.

Give me strength.

Half this forum spends every second comment complaining about how s**t the government is and then gets in here saying they want a friggin nuke in that same governments hands.

At least get your philosophy straight, ladies and gentlemen.
User avatar
geoff
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 200
Western Australia

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Tiger650 » 06 Mar 2022, 6:33 am

Nuclear submarines are simply unavailable, the US is building Virginia class boats flat out for the USN and falling behind schedule.
Likewise the UK, and the French boats are made by Frenchmen.
Not sure the Russians would sell theirs to us, in any case Russian boats can be a bit "temperamental".
Skills to maintain and operate nuclear warships are formidable to say the least, spend hundreds of $ Mill training folks up and with no local civil nuclear industry the blokes could well end up working at McDonalds if they resign or retire.
Tiger650
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 451
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 06 Mar 2022, 8:20 am

Good point there Tiger.

The other thing is even if we get nuclear boats, no one is going to hand us a couple dozen nuclear ICBMs or similar. And even we do get handed some who won't know what to do with them.

And I rather have the nuclear bombs with people who know what they doing. Not glorified woke SES volunteers who think the best thing is to torture unarmed kids and civilians (and un armed prisoners).
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Mar 2022, 8:35 am

Tiger650 wrote:Nuclear submarines are simply unavailable, the US is building Virginia class boats flat out for the USN and falling behind schedule.
Likewise the UK, and the French boats are made by Frenchmen.
Not sure the Russians would sell theirs to us, in any case Russian boats can be a bit "temperamental".
Skills to maintain and operate nuclear warships are formidable to say the least, spend hundreds of $ Mill training folks up and with no local civil nuclear industry the blokes could well end up working at McDonalds if they resign or retire.


We need to lease 4 or 5 subs ASAP. 20 Years is way too long.

Just now announced on Insiders by Dutton the defence minister that they will arrive much earlier. Formal announcement in a couple of months.
Last edited by Oldbloke on 06 Mar 2022, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by on_one_wheel » 06 Mar 2022, 10:40 am

Oldbloke wrote:
Tiger650 wrote:Nuclear submarines are simply unavailable, the US is building Virginia class boats flat out for the USN and falling behind schedule.
Likewise the UK, and the French boats are made by Frenchmen.
Not sure the Russians would sell theirs to us, in any case Russian boats can be a bit "temperamental".
Skills to maintain and operate nuclear warships are formidable to say the least, spend hundreds of $ Mill training folks up and with no local civil nuclear industry the blokes could well end up working at McDonalds if they resign or retire.


We need to lease 4 or 5 subs ASAP. 20 Years is way too long.

Just now announced on Insiders by Dutton the defence minister that they will arrive much earlier. Formal announcement in a couple of months.


Rumour has it he's simply placed an order at a Canberra Subway restaurant for 5 foot long Subway melts.

Pre election political spin :thumbsup:

But in all seriousness, I can't find any new time frames anywhere on the internet other than "much sooner"
2035 could be considered "much sooner"

For me the worrying part is the pace at which the aggressive language that China is expressing is accelerating.

I hope we have a good plan, because China won't be waiting for us to be ready
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 06 Mar 2022, 1:06 pm

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-04/ ... /100871924

Lol 1.3 billion to build basically any Ute's, and they have brake problems. Give 10k to Taliban they can get a Ute put a 50cal on it and run around terrorising everyone.

I can just imagine something similar with the nuc subs. Except its nuclear so more likely to go kaboom. But at the minimum the project will be over budget and late.

Ohh for anyone working it out that's 1.2 million dollars per vehicle. That can be blown up by a 25k drone
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by on_one_wheel » 06 Mar 2022, 1:14 pm

1.2 million dollar whoopies :shock:
They'd want remote central locking, factory tint and air for that
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 06 Mar 2022, 5:55 pm

Mate Australians should just give up and buy off the shelf vehicles like land cruiser etc put in their computer and radio gear and be done with it. Probably cost 1/10 instead of weighing 7T like the hawkei weight 2T and go faster, and longer range. And best of all any Taliban mechanic could fix the vehicle
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Mar 2022, 6:38 pm

cz515 wrote:Mate Australians should just give up and buy off the shelf vehicles like land cruiser etc put in their computer and radio gear and be done with it. Probably cost 1/10 instead of weighing 7T like the hawkei weight 2T and go faster, and longer range. And best of all any Taliban mechanic could fix the vehicle


Yep, off the shelf. ADF Procurement is full of wankers. Want the very best and latest. In the mean time we have SFA. But we wait for ever for the best.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Pudlux » 06 Mar 2022, 6:56 pm

cz515 wrote:Mate Australians should just give up and buy off the shelf vehicles like land cruiser etc put in their computer and radio gear and be done with it. Probably cost 1/10 instead of weighing 7T like the hawkei weight 2T and go faster, and longer range. And best of all any Taliban mechanic could fix the vehicle


Not so my learned friend. Never seen a Landcruiser or raghead that can survive an IED or RPG strike. Even uparmoured SUVs we used in the sandpit won't take that punishment. Happy if you want to be a hero but.
Pudlux
Private
Private
 
Posts: 54
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by on_one_wheel » 06 Mar 2022, 7:26 pm

cz515 wrote:Mate Australians should just give up and buy off the shelf vehicles like land cruiser etc put in their computer and radio gear and be done with it. Probably cost 1/10 instead of weighing 7T like the hawkei weight 2T and go faster, and longer range. And best of all any Taliban mechanic could fix the vehicle


As you said, a fleet of hilux's fitted with guns works extremely well for the Taliban... and most of theirs were stolen form all over thr world including Australia and shipped over for $SFA

The pendulum has swung right over to the safety side.
I think the focus seems to be on full blown maximum bullet proof bomb survivability safety rather than shear volume for a force of sand dwelling nutters who are fully prepared to meet their maker.... its just so eye watering to see what's being paid for safety.
Russia build something that would be the perfect Middle ground, and we're still importing them, ugly as sin but they look solid. https://www.trucksales.com.au/editorial ... ay-131097/
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 07 Mar 2022, 6:39 am

Pudlux wrote:
cz515 wrote:Mate Australians should just give up and buy off the shelf vehicles like land cruiser etc put in their computer and radio gear and be done with it. Probably cost 1/10 instead of weighing 7T like the hawkei weight 2T and go faster, and longer range. And best of all any Taliban mechanic could fix the vehicle


Not so my learned friend. Never seen a Landcruiser or raghead that can survive an IED or RPG strike. Even uparmoured SUVs we used in the sandpit won't take that punishment. Happy if you want to be a hero but.



That's the difference.

One army is fighting for their ideology and in their motherland. They will fight with no bulletproof vests.

One army is fighting for money in another person's country. Hence they need 7T vehicle to transport them with full health and safety garbage to make sure they go back home to enjoy their bags full of dollars and danger money.
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Pudlux » 07 Mar 2022, 6:36 pm

You seem very bitter about the Australian Army. Wouldn't they let you play?
Pudlux
Private
Private
 
Posts: 54
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 07 Mar 2022, 7:12 pm

There are lot of better things they could spend or tax payer dollars on then some kids playing pretend soldiers.

Education
Health
000
Paying off some of the govt loans
Actually building infrastructure with some foresight.
Building roads with no tolls.


The list goes on
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Pudlux » 07 Mar 2022, 7:38 pm

Yeh mate, hope you get to keep that opinion. For what its worth l have had a skinfull of people like you that have no f'n idea what they are talking about.
1. The Taliban wear body armour. Usually from the Afghani soldiers they kill.
2. The Taliban drive civilian vehicles cos they are the ones that set roadside bombs, IED, landlines etc. They don't drive through them.
3. I hope you get the chance to talk to a vet the has lost his/her balls, boobs, legs, arms etc and let them know its ok cos they've got heaps of blood money to see them thru.
4. Please put a sign on your front fence so the ADF knows you can look after yourself.

Rant over. I was going to add d*^kh'*d but it would probably get me cancelled.
Pudlux
Private
Private
 
Posts: 54
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 07 Mar 2022, 8:07 pm

I am more than happy to put a sign on my doorway, and if the government allowed I would put $0 towards the ADF from my tax.


But I see your priority is people in uniform playing soldiers rather then the important things.
Last edited by Blackened on 08 Mar 2022, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed inappropriate content.
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 07 Mar 2022, 8:19 pm

Also last time I checked Australia/Us/UK etc invaded Taliban's country (war that we lost)

Same way they invaded Iraq, even though both Toby and Bush knew there were no WMD.

Even more ironic we are upset when Russia does exactly the same to another country.
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Mar 2022, 8:49 pm

I'm confused. Are people suggesting we should not spend $ on defence?
I think we should spend more. Been saying for years.
Has the money been well spent mmmm, I think we could do better. And should be more self sufficient.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by on_one_wheel » 08 Mar 2022, 3:06 am

Oldbloke wrote:I'm confused. Are people suggesting we should not spend $ on defence?


I spent some time pondering on that thought yesterday
Should we be spending almost $50 billion per year?
Imagine what we could achieve if we did’nt have to, flood damage... no worries, the federal government could pick up the tab
Could we become a nation that says, we're selling off all our military hardware to the highest bidders and
become a nation that simply goes about its own business, keeps its nose out of others business and trades with the world without prejudice. Imagine that.
When that happens I'll start my own unicorn stud farm. :thumbsup:

But no... we need an army to counter the threat of their army, everyone counters everyone, more powerful, more expensive, bigger, better, faster, stronger.... because at the end of the day our world leaders can't be trusted to act like grown adults, we're just a planet run by a mixed bag of corrupt morons who want to kill each other.
Why ? Because positions of great power attract control freaks who sit on the far end of the psychotic spectrum.
f***ing wonderful hey :drinks:
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by cz515 » 08 Mar 2022, 4:55 am

We can have a small defence force...like NZ, Canada etc. You know Canada has a smaller army then us.

Lots of rockets, drones, a bit of anti air, maybe a couple of boats to stop the people smugglers. We can keep our SAS excluding the war criminals.

We do not need big heavy tanks or artillery etc. Because due to our topology they are basically useless. China/Indonesia is not travelling 100s of km to attack our inland cities. All our major cities are on the coast. They can park a few boats of the coast and bomb the s**t out of us and our tracks will do Jack all
When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil
User avatar
cz515
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1032
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Pudlux » 08 Mar 2022, 6:21 am

cz515 wrote:Well there are plenty of warmongering adolescents online... you seem like one of them.

I am more than happy to put a sign on my doorway, and if the government allowed I would put $0 towards the ADF from my tax.


But I see your priority is people in uniform playing soldiers rather then the important things.


Oh Good comeback.

Can you tell me how you took that avatar selfie of you on you knees in front of Putin? You must be very close.
Pudlux
Private
Private
 
Posts: 54
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Bugman » 08 Mar 2022, 7:03 am

Now, now, gentlemen. Play nicely.
User avatar
Bugman
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1071
New South Wales

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by on_one_wheel » 08 Mar 2022, 7:11 am

Bugman wrote:Now, now, gentlemen. Play nicely.


+1 on that .... CZ your at it again, there's just no need. Not cool.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3680
Gun control requires concentration and a steady hand
User avatar
on_one_wheel
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3561
South Australia

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Pudlux » 08 Mar 2022, 11:39 am

My apologies mods/members.
All done.
Pudlux
Private
Private
 
Posts: 54
Victoria

Re: The Defense of Australia.

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Mar 2022, 12:45 pm

Perhaps just a reminder. This thread is about the ability of Australia's ability to Defend the country not our ability to be aggressive.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

PreviousNext

Back to top
 
Return to Off topic - General conversation