Lazarus wrote:G'day CZ
I have to admit to being a little conflicted on the subject of free speech.
I heard a quote from Salman Rushdie on telly earlier; "If you believe in the value of free speech, you also have to believe in the value of speech you don't like."
Trouble is, where do you draw the line?
Do we allow Nazis to preach their ideological spite in the name of freedom of speech?
Do we allow IS to preach their twisted misinterpretation of Islam?
The case in Skokie Illinois in 1977 is one example that sticks in my mind as going too far in the name of free speech.
I do however accept the argument of precedent.
https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech ... ghts-nazis
We plainly have to draw that line somewhere, but wherever we do, someone's going to be pissed off.
Who is the final arbiter of what can and can't be said?
Lazarus wrote:@ on one wheel.
I hadn't heard about the Biden administration continuing the wall, neither does it strike me as strange that they are.
A significant proportion of the population want it.
In this instance they're whining about something they'd have applauded if it was the Republicans doing it.
What I do find amusing though is the reactions from those who called for it the loudest. He was criticised by the right for calling a halt to it, now they're criticising him for doing what they want.
That's the deliberate division I mentioned above, instead of being open minded enough to give any credit at all, they merely see it as another opportunity to sow discontent.
As to letting the Murdoch media et al form my opinions of anything, that would be difficult as I rarely take anything they spout at face value.
I do read their output, not to would be as narrow minded as those who think the ABC is a nest of communists and disregard anything they say.
Lazarus wrote:G'day OB
Mate politicians are all the same, eh?
Labor was right behind the Coalition policies during the worst of the bat soup pox, now they use every opportunity to mention the deficit they inherited.
To their credit, they don't talk out of both sides of their mouths about it, they know they're vulnerable to the taint of hypocrisy if they do. The other mob are too far down their own bellybutton to care.
We had that Canavan loon saying that renewable energy was "the dole bludger of the energy sector" while backing ever larger subsidies for the fossil industries and cutting renewable subsidies.
Then Moronisson himself, 2 seconds out of office and telling his happy-clappy mates not to trust governments.
I think we need a different type of setup, all (or lots more) independents, nobody beholden to party dogma, every donation over $100 and all meetings with lobby groups on public record etc.
Very importantly in my mind, no bloody conscience votes.
They're not there to represent their conscience, or what their priest tells them, they're supposed to represent the people who gave them their ticket to the golden trough.
Never happen though, not while the junkies are in charge of the keys the the drug cupboard.
Lazarus wrote:@ on one wheel.
I hadn't heard about the Biden administration continuing the wall, neither does it strike me as strange that they are.
A significant proportion of the population want it.
In this instance they're whining about something they'd have applauded if it was the Republicans doing it.
What I do find amusing though is the reactions from those who called for it the loudest. He was criticised by the right for calling a halt to it, now they're criticising him for doing what they want.
That's the deliberate division I mentioned above, instead of being open minded enough to give any credit at all, they merely see it as another opportunity to sow discontent.
As to letting the Murdoch media et al form my opinions of anything, that would be difficult as I rarely take anything they spout at face value.
I do read their output, not to would be as narrow minded as those who think the ABC is a nest of communists and disregard anything they say.
Oldbloke wrote:Lazarus wrote:@ on one wheel.
I hadn't heard about the Biden administration continuing the wall, neither does it strike me as strange that they are.
A significant proportion of the population want it.
In this instance they're whining about something they'd have applauded if it was the Republicans doing it.
What I do find amusing though is the reactions from those who called for it the loudest. He was criticised by the right for calling a halt to it, now they're criticising him for doing what they want.
That's the deliberate division I mentioned above, instead of being open minded enough to give any credit at all, they merely see it as another opportunity to sow discontent.
As to letting the Murdoch media et al form my opinions of anything, that would be difficult as I rarely take anything they spout at face value.
I do read their output, not to would be as narrow minded as those who think the ABC is a nest of communists and disregard anything they say.
The parties are just the same here. E.G. think back to Tony Abbot. He opposed every bill the ALP presented to parliament.
He didn't repeal any once he was elected though. Hypocrisy at its best.
mchughcb wrote:Oldbloke wrote:Lazarus wrote:@ on one wheel.
I hadn't heard about the Biden administration continuing the wall, neither does it strike me as strange that they are.
A significant proportion of the population want it.
In this instance they're whining about something they'd have applauded if it was the Republicans doing it.
What I do find amusing though is the reactions from those who called for it the loudest. He was criticised by the right for calling a halt to it, now they're criticising him for doing what they want.
That's the deliberate division I mentioned above, instead of being open minded enough to give any credit at all, they merely see it as another opportunity to sow discontent.
As to letting the Murdoch media et al form my opinions of anything, that would be difficult as I rarely take anything they spout at face value.
I do read their output, not to would be as narrow minded as those who think the ABC is a nest of communists and disregard anything they say.
The parties are just the same here. E.G. think back to Tony Abbot. He opposed every bill the ALP presented to parliament.
He didn't repeal any once he was elected though. Hypocrisy at its best.
Cornpop seems to forget the minute Abbot got in he stopped the boats and changed the policy of the Kevin Rudd.
Went from 20,000 arriving a week to zero.
Must have been asleep during that one cornpop.
Lazarus wrote:G'day mickb
I have to agree with that, in the main.
My worry though, is that we're at a point in history where the loony fringe dwellers no longer need the power of a government behind them to spread their lunacy planet wide.
It also seems there's a multitude of others out there just gagging for their next dose of outrage.
Now that virtually everyone in 1st and a significant number in 3rd world countries have a smart phone, all they need is access to the nearest tower and they have a potentially world wide audience.
"Also in my experience fruitcake or hate groups dont do well in a well fed happy society and the issue is self managed. Fruitcakes either need poor, starved or desperate people, or serious backing or they dont get much traction."
Here I have to disagree.
A case in point is the Trump phenomenon.
I've never seen people in this country fight over Australian politics the way they do over a politician on the other side of the planet for whom they can't even vote.
mickb wrote:Looks like a media story about a whacko who went crazy. As to his 'manifesto' I reckon if it was mailed to every person in Australia and New zealand right now the net effect would be complaints about spam.
If you want literature or radical idealism by people with actual talent( aka to influence millions, not just kill a couple dozen) try the communist manifesto, Mein Kampf, Stalins works, in fact the autobiographies of about any dictator in history.
Most still available, the whackos have access and life goes on.
Lazarus wrote:mickb wrote:Looks like a media story about a whacko who went crazy. As to his 'manifesto' I reckon if it was mailed to every person in Australia and New zealand right now the net effect would be complaints about spam.
If you want literature or radical idealism by people with actual talent( aka to influence millions, not just kill a couple dozen) try the communist manifesto, Mein Kampf, Stalins works, in fact the autobiographies of about any dictator in history.
Most still available, the whackos have access and life goes on.
At the risk of belabouring a point you seem determined to not to get, I'll try to clarify it for you.
The report illustrates my point that one random, violent, far right fcktard can spread his poison, not by "mail to everyone in Australia" but by streaming his atrocities, via a smartphone, for fellow minded violent, far right fcktards around the world to record and and share.
I didn't mention his psychotic ramblings, because they're so cliche, the same uneducated bile and spite the far right has been spewing for a hundred years and little different to the "talented" nonsense you lauded.
mickb wrote:Lazarus wrote:mickb wrote:Looks like a media story about a whacko who went crazy. As to his 'manifesto' I reckon if it was mailed to every person in Australia and New zealand right now the net effect would be complaints about spam.
If you want literature or radical idealism by people with actual talent( aka to influence millions, not just kill a couple dozen) try the communist manifesto, Mein Kampf, Stalins works, in fact the autobiographies of about any dictator in history.
Most still available, the whackos have access and life goes on.
At the risk of belabouring a point you seem determined to not to get, I'll try to clarify it for you.
The report illustrates my point that one random, violent, far right fcktard can spread his poison, not by "mail to everyone in Australia" but by streaming his atrocities, via a smartphone, for fellow minded violent, far right fcktards around the world to record and and share.
I didn't mention his psychotic ramblings, because they're so cliche, the same uneducated bile and spite the far right has been spewing for a hundred years and little different to the "talented" nonsense you lauded.
The point mate remains the same. Far greater 'poisonous rhetoric' is available in the common domain , and life goes on.
In fact wouldnt SBS and major outlets running stories like this spread his rhetoric 100,000x more than it would have anyway?
never lauded any of this rhetoric either, nice try though. just said the fellas had some talent, any world leader or influencer does. Unfortunately as I said 80% of governments end up using it the wrong way.
Lazarus wrote: I didn't mention his psychotic ramblings, because they're so cliche, the same uneducated bile and spite the far right has been spewing for a hundred years and little different to the "talented" nonsense you lauded.
mchughcb wrote:Well things are going so great for Ukraine they are extending martial law and men of a less than fighting age can't leave and are being conscripted. This isn't going to end well.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/ze ... 9c22ce2f71
brett1868 wrote:mchughcb wrote:Well things are going so great for Ukraine they are extending martial law and men of a less than fighting age can't leave and are being conscripted. This isn't going to end well.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/ze ... 9c22ce2f71
No different to the U.S drafting youngsters to fight in Vietnam and at least they're not using mercs or considering volunteers from Nth Korea.....