When is,,, "enough is enough"

[cz515]

Well don't take my word for it.

https://youtu.be/MXlAWTqNr5k

Yep. 37 seconds in he says the Russians could invade Ukrain AGAIN.

So,,,what gave then the right to invade the first time?
Oh let me guess, we gave you independence now we have changed our mind.

And the Minsk agreement is really about the Ukrainian government giving the Russians first invasion gains.

That's like china invades and takes tassie and then we sign an agreement giving it to them . FMD

No government would sign that.

Hope Ukrains kicks arse.

Not sure what that example is suppose to mean. Are you joking, being sarcastic, or have never read any history ever?

Let me ask you a question, how do you think Germany was divided into two halves after WW2

[Oldbloke]

Well don't take my word for it.

https://youtu.be/MXlAWTqNr5k

Yep. 37 seconds in he says the Russians could invade Ukrain AGAIN.

So,,,what gave then the right to invade the first time?
Oh let me guess, we gave you independence now we have changed our mind.

And the Minsk agreement is really about the Ukrainian government giving the Russians first invasion gains.

That's like china invades and takes tassie and then we sign an agreement giving it to them . FMD

No government would sign that.

Hope Ukrains kicks arse.

Not sure what that example is suppose to mean. Are you joking, being sarcastic, or have never read any history ever?

Let me ask you a question, how do you think Germany was divided into two halves after WW2

Try reading my post.

Germany lost the war they started by being the aggressor.

[straightshooter]

It seems that for some "enough" will never be "enough".

Coming from a somewhat different direction, I woke this morning listening to the BBC World Business Report.
The upshot was that "due to Putin" there is and will be worldwide shortages of energy and inflation is and will be rampant.
No mention of the sanctions against Russia and some Russian individuals nor the massive money printing by western countries most notably the US.
No mention of what the straightforward but politically unpalatable solutions may be.
Reading between the lines we are headed for hard times which grandiose posturing and fantasies will not fix.
I don't for a minute think we are headed for "Mad Max" territory but generally we won't be as affluent as we are even now.
We as shooters have been the first to experience massive price rises on some things and others turning into unobtainium.
What is the principal but never spoken about reason for the Soviet block falling?
A worthless currency.

[mchughcb]

Russian will sell energy to whoever wants it including China and India. If the EU doesn't want it, then okay, that's the decision they made, not Russia. I see the UK inflation has now hit double digits. I notice a lot more these days that "UK military advisors" not "US military advisors" are helping the Ukrainians. The UK has the least to lose if this not contained.

I read that the Russians are now back up to 75,000 shells a day on the eastern front , back up to the levels it was at Lysychansk and the UA is back to the 1000 lost soldiers a day stats. That means they are getting serious about smashing the Zelensky line. There is no counter offensive, they are just sending more troops to replace those in the trenches. In the middle ages, castles were tactically defensive but strategically aggressive. Well the Ukrainians are building any trenches forward, they are just advancing westward towards Poland.

[mchughcb]

It seems that for some "enough" will never be "enough".

Coming from a somewhat different direction, I woke this morning listening to the BBC World Business Report.
The upshot was that "due to Putin" there is and will be worldwide shortages of energy and inflation is and will be rampant.
No mention of the sanctions against Russia and some Russian individuals nor the massive money printing by western countries most notably the US.
No mention of what the straightforward but politically unpalatable solutions may be.
Reading between the lines we are headed for hard times which grandiose posturing and fantasies will not fix.
I don't for a minute think we are headed for "Mad Max" territory but generally we won't be as affluent as we are even now.
We as shooters have been the first to experience massive price rises on some things and others turning into unobtainium.
What is the principal but never spoken about reason for the Soviet block falling?
A worthless currency.

Their currency is doing alright and hasn't collapsed like it did in the early 90s. So unlike all the hype from the media, economists they are in a far better shape today. Sanctions were never listed as a reason for the military intervention.

1. Ukraine becomes neutral
2. Recognized Crimea
3. Recognize Lugansk and Donetsk republics
4. De-nazify the country

While people focus on #4 and probably the hardest to prove it can every be achieved within a generation, other than their major regiment was caught in mariupol, the others can be done pretty quickly. Ever day this goes on, the suspicion will be #1 can never be achieved with Zelensky calling the shots from Kiev which then requires some actions to make #1 possible.

[mchughcb]

Looks like there is more incoming soon in Crimea. And a new Naval commander on his way. Mmm,,,I wonder why?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog ... imea-bases

Cornpop probably missed Ukraine is replacing its military commander

[cz515]

No cornpop actually didn't understand his own argument and my reply.

At the end of every war there is a treaty, and a reset of boundaries. Best case for the defending country they are drawn at the point where the armies stop.

Straightshooter, no one seems to notice this basic thing. They are all clapping at the show between "orcs", "nazi". The governments of the world have been printing money like crazy through covid and its basic laws of economics that over printing of money always results in high inflation, something they teach at first year economics course in every university across the world.

[on_one_wheel]

cornpop

I think you need some new material CZ
It was funny the first time ...

[Oldbloke]

No cornpop actually didn't understand his own argument and my reply.

At the end of every war there is a treaty, and a reset of boundaries. Best case for the defending country they are drawn at the point where the armies stop.

Straightshooter, no one seems to notice this basic thing. They are all clapping at the show between "orcs", "nazi". The governments of the world have been printing money like crazy through covid and its basic laws of economics that over printing of money always results in high inflation, something they teach at first year economics course in every university across the world.

I was going to reply. But there is no point. You can't teach stupid.

[mchughcb]

No cornpop actually didn't understand his own argument and my reply.

At the end of every war there is a treaty, and a reset of boundaries. Best case for the defending country they are drawn at the point where the armies stop.

Straightshooter, no one seems to notice this basic thing. They are all clapping at the show between "orcs", "nazi". The governments of the world have been printing money like crazy through covid and its basic laws of economics that over printing of money always results in high inflation, something they teach at first year economics course in every university across the world.

I was going to reply. But there is no point. You can't teach stupid.

People learn not teach.

[mchughcb]

If NATO really wanted to teach the Russians a lesson they'd give the 300km rockets with the Himars and let them blast away at Russia way behind the front . But they are giving them just enough to do very little except the headline grabbing ammo dump goes boom.

Zelensky is never going to redraw the map. They have not had a major counter attack. They couldn't break the siege of mariupol and save the 1000 marines or 1000 azov regiment.

Yet some people still believe they can launch a major counter attack in kherson and push them back past Crimea? Delusional thinking at best egged on mainstream propaganda

[mchughcb]

A year ago today Biden said the USA was leaving and the Afghanistan government would hold on. It collapsed in days reminiscent of the fall of Saigon. Those billions of weapons are now in Pakistan being used against India.

Lord knows what happens after those NATO debacle

https://youtu.be/W-y5JZb_E4A

[mchughcb]

Everytime I hear some virtue signalling idiot say slava Ukraine I remember how it worked out for the Commander of the leader of the best nationalist regiment who had 8 years to prepare. Now they are just down to conscripts who are unnecessarily dying.

https://youtu.be/Z0G4Cpi31lc

[Oldbloke]

No cornpop actually didn't understand his own argument and my reply.

At the end of every war there is a treaty, and a reset of boundaries. Best case for the defending country they are drawn at the point where the armies stop.

Straightshooter, no one seems to notice this basic thing. They are all clapping at the show between "orcs", "nazi". The governments of the world have been printing money like crazy through covid and its basic laws of economics that over printing of money always results in high inflation, something they teach at first year economics course in every university across the world.

I was going to reply. But there is no point. You can't teach stupid.

People learn not teach.

Not if they are stupid.

[mchughcb]

Guess you haven't learnt much then.

[mchughcb]

Here is the Commander of the best equipped forces in UA assessment.

https://youtube.com/shorts/-4LpOVLeD6g?feature=share

[Oldbloke]

Guess you haven't learnt much then.

Screenshot_20220818-195452_DuckDuckGo.jpg (260.55 KiB) Viewed 160617 times

[Oldbloke]

It's pretty sad really that there are people around who take delight in watching this war. No empathy or concern for the injuries and deaths of innocents.

All the excuses & propaganda under the sun does not make the Russian invasion of Ukraine right. They are regularly attacking non-military targets killing women and children. Mass graves are proof of atrocities the Russians are committing.

As I've said before, Russia will likely win. But pootin will be remembered throughout history in the same vane as Hitler. Just a mass murderer. Certainly not the hero he thinks he is.

It's sad some care so little for their fellow man.

[mickb]

very true mate about wars as TV viewing

[Oldbloke]

very true mate.

Thankyou

[mchughcb]

It's pretty sad really that there are people around who take delight in watching this war. No empathy or concern for the injuries and deaths of innocents.

All the excuses & propaganda under the sun does not make the Russian invasion of Ukraine right. They are regularly attacking non-military targets killing women and children. Mass graves are proof of atrocities the Russians are committing.

As I've said before, Russia will likely win. But pootin will be remembered throughout history in the same vane as Hitler. Just a mass murderer. Certainly not the hero he thinks he is.

It's sad some care so little for their fellow man.

If putin is considered a mass murderer what do you consider Blair, Howard and Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan? Give me a break on your infantile ramblings.

[Oldbloke]

Does that make what Pootin is doing right? Does that mean targeting civilians is ok?

[Billo]

It's pretty sad really that there are people around who take delight in watching this war. No empathy or concern for the injuries and deaths of innocents.

All the excuses & propaganda under the sun does not make the Russian invasion of Ukraine right. They are regularly attacking non-military targets killing women and children. Mass graves are proof of atrocities the Russians are committing.

As I've said before, Russia will likely win. But pootin will be remembered throughout history in the same vane as Hitler. Just a mass murderer. Certainly not the hero he thinks he is.

It's sad some care so little for their fellow man.

If putin is considered a mass murderer what do you consider Blair, Howard and Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan? Give me a break on your infantile ramblings.

If those are your facts you bring to this argument then pack up and go home, Putin is clearly a deranged psycopath. Does Russia win anything from this invasion ? Im yet to see it, they've thrown the Kitchen sink at the Kyiv and Zelensky but have retreated back to Crimea, the whole thing is a cluster pharrkk and the EU has been on the decline for 20 years so hyper energy driven inflation just gives Asia more of a leg up. I'm not sure Chuck why you think anything good will come from this extended Invasion that is likely to run up until Putins death in the next few years, Karma's a biatch

[mickb]

It seems that for some "enough" will never be "enough".

Coming from a somewhat different direction, I woke this morning listening to the BBC World Business Report.
The upshot was that "due to Putin" there is and will be worldwide shortages of energy and inflation is and will be rampant.
No mention of the sanctions against Russia and some Russian individuals nor the massive money printing by western countries most notably the US.
No mention of what the straightforward but politically unpalatable solutions may be.
Reading between the lines we are headed for hard times which grandiose posturing and fantasies will not fix.
I don't for a minute think we are headed for "Mad Max" territory but generally we won't be as affluent as we are even now.
We as shooters have been the first to experience massive price rises on some things and others turning into unobtainium.
What is the principal but never spoken about reason for the Soviet block falling?
A worthless currency.

Also never a mention of Covid mate. I dont know why its like a dirty secret, white elephant or conspiracy theory to link the shutdowns to massive inflation. You close business for a year or two, hammer small enterprise, print money, you will get an inflationary effect. Again its not a conspiracy theory the bloody politicians told us right through covid to expect it.

Now its happened and Aussies seem to have some terrible fear to admit it or memory loss. . Right , wrong, real disease or a secret plot by lizard people doesnt matter when it comes to the financials. Lockdowns means the world has a bill to pay, a big one, and thats that.

The scariest thing is when other wise intelligentaussies attribute all inflation to putins war and the sanctions when they know a bunch of stuff was soaring in prices a year earlier. I mean cmon fellas, fckn seriously..

[mchughcb]

They have not thrown the kitchen sink at it. Neither has NATO given Ukraine all of the weapons at its disposal, neither Abram's tanks, F35 jets, limited himars with limited range rockets.

Neither had Russia dropped their FOAB on these towns and completely obliterated them like the USA was doing to the Taliban in Tora Bora mountains.

[mchughcb]

It seems that for some "enough" will never be "enough".

Coming from a somewhat different direction, I woke this morning listening to the BBC World Business Report.
The upshot was that "due to Putin" there is and will be worldwide shortages of energy and inflation is and will be rampant.
No mention of the sanctions against Russia and some Russian individuals nor the massive money printing by western countries most notably the US.
No mention of what the straightforward but politically unpalatable solutions may be.
Reading between the lines we are headed for hard times which grandiose posturing and fantasies will not fix.
I don't for a minute think we are headed for "Mad Max" territory but generally we won't be as affluent as we are even now.
We as shooters have been the first to experience massive price rises on some things and others turning into unobtainium.
What is the principal but never spoken about reason for the Soviet block falling?
A worthless currency.

Also never a mention of Covid mate. I dont know why its like a dirty secret, white elephant or conspiracy theory to link the shutdowns to massive inflation. You close business for a year or two, hammer small enterprise, print money, you will get an inflationary effect. Again its not a conspiracy theory the bloody politicians told us right through covid to expect it.

Now its happened and Aussies seem to have some terrible fear to admit it or memory loss. . Right , wrong, real disease or a secret plot by lizard people doesnt matter when it comes to the financials. Lockdowns means the world has a bill to pay, a big one, and thats that.

The scariest thing is when other wise intelligentaussies attribute all inflation to putins war and the sanctions when they know a bunch of stuff was soaring in prices a year earlier. I mean cmon fellas, fckn seriously..

Regardless of what retired cornpop thinks, you are 100% right. No society can afford the most productive age people to be told by the government to sit at home and not be productive and be paid by the government without huge societal cost. Nor can the government keep printing money and give it to them in return for no production or there will be a massive inflation pressure as free printed money floods the economy.

Putin shut moscow down for 2 weeks and made a speech about protecting the old but not to the extent they will shutdown the economy as it will cause more damage to all society. I will see if I can find his speech again.

[mchughcb]

A couple of altitude bombers and cities would be wiped off the map

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_All_Bombs

[Billo]

They have not thrown the kitchen sink at it. Neither has NATO given Ukraine all of the weapons at its disposal, neither Abram's tanks, F35 jets, limited himars with limited range rockets.

Neither had Russia dropped their FOAB on these towns and completely obliterated them like the USA was doing to the Taliban in Tora Bora mountains.

So we finally get to my bombs bigger than yours, fmd you really have disconnected from reality chuck.

[mchughcb]

Disconnected because you've said they've thrown the kitchen sink at it and I've pointed out neither NATO or Russia have come close to using what's in their conventional weapons arsenal?

Maybe look at what America was using in Afghanistan only a few years ago and Russians have the same they haven't used.

https://youtu.be/LqfosAxT4CI

[Billo]

Russians have been raping Ukraine for the last 5 generations, when will it end ?