Am I the only one that thinks this is a RORT ?

[Die Judicii]

Increasingly so these days is the practice within businesses of adopting a "minimum charge"

I believe this to be getting out of hand,, along with some businesses even refusing to accept cash payments for goods.

Within the local business district that I frequent I have had to deal with the following examples.

a) A hardware store specializing in nuts, bolts, fasteners etc that now has a "minimum charge" of $50.00
> I am a regular customer,, and buy not just an assortment of, but instead buy whole boxes, each and every month.
The average purchase price per visit is in excess of $300 and it's not uncommon to attend three or four times per week.

Just recently I needed seven bolts that I didn't already have, and that I was unlikely to ever use again in that size/thread.
They added up to the grand total of $10.50 and I was told that they would be applied to the $50 minimum charge.
I reminded the guy behind the counter just how much I spend there every week,,,,, and this was a once off variant.
>>> The charge was still rated at $50,,,,,,,,,,,, so I said forget it,, and walked out, never to return.

b) Yet another enterprise that deals in the same hardware, that I attended a while back now to purchase from, got the requested hardware,, bagged,, and
on the counter,,,,,,,,,, and when I went to pay,, I was told no, they don't accept cash transactions,
WTF,,,,,,,
So needless to say they lost that transaction,,,,,,, and I've never been back.

c) Last week I took a sheet metal tray (reloading type) that measured 150 mm x 150 mm x 45 mm in to get powder coated.
I got a phone call from them today to say that it was finished.
$95 they said.

WTF,,,,,,,,,,,
I had an entire 5 poster bullbar done there less than two years ago that cost me less than $300
But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, now new owners,,,,,, and $95 is their "Minimum Charge"

The freakin world has gone "Minimum Charge" crazy

[Phil Lawlor]

A few weeks ago the wife and myself went away for the weekend. We only wanted to book a cabin for one night at one of the "Big Four" holiday parks. The receptionist said, "have you pre booked"???. No, we are only passing through and would like to book a cabin for one night please. "Sorry Sir, minimum stay is two nights". There was hardly no one in the park and plenty of cabins available. Also they wanted credit card payment, not cash. We were polite and walked out the door. Crazy world out there.

[duncan61]

I am a plumber so best I do not weigh in

[Blr243]

Duncan, when u are withdrawing an electric eel from a customers sewer pipe and it’s flinging poo and god knows what bacteria everywhere , just stick it to them no matter what they think

[northdude]

Buissness must be good if you can afford to turn away or refuse to take money your customer willingly wants to give you...

[Oldbloke]

Buissness must be good if you can afford to turn away or refuse to take money your customer willingly wants to give you...

Plenty of caravan parks are booked out weekends ATM. Particularly in popular areas. They are making a killing.

[cz515]

Plumbers, Duncan mate is good. You will just get those ahole customers that after you done the job say they are old and on pension so can they bake you some cookies as payment

DieJ, was it the owner or just a worker you dealt with at the bolts place, and did they recognise you are a regular customer? As I feel that if it was the owner he might not have turned you away (if he knew you are a regular)

Personally I have had to visit a bolt shop twice to get a screw for a motor etc and I feel embassies when the total bill is like $1.50. Esp after it took the guy 5 minutes to serve me.

Minimum costs is an interesting issue, I can see the point of businesses putting Minimum costs as to serve a customer takes a certain time, if you pay via a card it costs $$$ and cash still needs to be taken to the bank.

In covid I accepted a lot of shops reluctance to use cash but until cash is a valid form I refuse to deal with companies that refuse to take cash

[Die Judicii]

DieJ, was it the owner or just a worker you dealt with at the bolts place, and did they recognise you are a regular customer? As I feel that if it was the owner he might not have turned you away (if he knew you are a regular)

Personally I have had to visit a bolt shop twice to get a screw for a motor etc and I feel embassies when the total bill is like $1.50. Esp after it took the guy 5 minutes to serve me.

LOL,,,,, The owner most likely would know me by sight only,, and recognize me as a frequent customer,, and that is most likely from peering through
the one way mirror from his office.

The employees on the other hand know me by name.

[on_one_wheel]

Duncan, when u are withdrawing an electric eel from a customers sewer pipe and it’s flinging poo and god knows what bacteria everywhere , just stick it to them no matter what they think

I'll never forget watching a plumber clearing our sewerage pipe as a kid... once the tangled mess of tree roots were free from the old clay pipes, the backed up sewerage shot a fountain of s**t soup 20 foot up into the air and rained down on him like a torrential downpour.
My parents offered him use of their shower but he said "she'll be right", packed his gear up und sat his s**t soaked ass in his van and left... poor bastard
"See ya next year buddy"
I bet the bill had a few add-ons and minimum charges for that job

[cz515]

DieJ, was it the owner or just a worker you dealt with at the bolts place, and did they recognise you are a regular customer? As I feel that if it was the owner he might not have turned you away (if he knew you are a regular)

Personally I have had to visit a bolt shop twice to get a screw for a motor etc and I feel embassies when the total bill is like $1.50. Esp after it took the guy 5 minutes to serve me.

LOL,,,,, The owner most likely would know me by sight only,, and recognize me as a frequent customer,, and that is most likely from peering through
the one way mirror from his office.

The employees on the other hand know me by name.

That is a shame.

[Oldbloke]

When I ran my 1 man show I was often asked to work, say 2 hours. Always charged minimum 4. Reason was the day was usually fukd.

[Die Judicii]

When I ran my 1 man show I was often asked to work, say 2 hours. Always charged minimum 4. Reason was the day was usually fukd.

So, the rorts continue ??

[Oldbloke]

When I ran my 1 man show I was often asked to work, say 2 hours. Always charged minimum 4. Reason was the day was usually fukd.

So, the rorts continue ??

Nope, never was. Gotta earn a living. The other option was refuse the work and leave the client with no Professional help, sometimes when they needed it most.

Ph your local plumber, there will be a "call out" charge just to turn up. Same same.

[dnedative]

$50 minimum for a nut and bolt shop - Surely your taking the piss there?
I could understand $5; I know by the time your serve someone, go back, pick the fasteners, bag em, come back and print an invoice you need to charge more than 50c for the single bolt the bloke needs. The local we use for work generally gives s**t away for free when you need one or two of something, not worth the paper for the invoice and if you lose $5 a day its arguably the best advertising money you could spend. Typically when I need one of something I buy enough to make it worth their while. But f***ing half of the people walking through the door will be in the the $5-50 range, even if your doing well account sale wise you never want to piss off your retail customers.

[Die Judicii]

$50 minimum for a nut and bolt shop - Surely your taking the piss there?
I could understand $5; I know by the time your serve someone, go back, pick the fasteners, bag em, come back and print an invoice you need to charge more than 50c for the single bolt the bloke needs. The local we use for work generally gives s**t away for free when you need one or two of something, not worth the paper for the invoice and if you lose $5 a day its arguably the best advertising money you could spend. Typically when I need one of something I buy enough to make it worth their while. But f***ing half of the people walking through the door will be in the the $5-50 range, even if your doing well account sale wise you never want to piss off your retail customers.

Correcto,,,,, for the salesperson to insist on the "minimum" charge on a regular customer that spends well in excess of the "minimum" each
and every week, just stank.

Maybe I'm a complete tool (pardon the pun) but also,,, when I had my own business, I can honestly say that NEVER ONCE did I book out
time that was never actually spent getting the job done.
And back then, I too had to make a living.

[Oldbloke]

So you drive 2 hrs in traffic, and only get paid for the 2hrs work you did?

If you did that on a regular basis you must have padded out your hourly rate.

[cz515]

Ohh I didn't see this. Dang man this is what gives all Aussie businesses and tradies a bad image. Do work for 10 minutes but charge for 4 hours. And the other person has no choice as they are held for ransom over a barrel.

[Oldbloke]

Ohh I didn't see this. Dang man this is what gives all Aussie businesses and tradies a bad image. Do work for 10 minutes but charge for 4 hours. And the other person has no choice as they are held for ransom over a barrel.

Assumptions, assumptions. 10 minutes, would not charge. Nope, they know the deal when they ask you to provide a service. Simple business. There are overheads. Or they can get more quotes.

Some did, and tried other services, some come back. You know, pay peanuts get monkeys.

You buy a Tshirt in Kmart, cost oh, about $10 to you.
Cost to them delivered, oh, about 50c.

[womble]

Over quote, then charge less, they come back

[Die Judicii]

So you drive 2 hrs in traffic, and only get paid for the 2hrs work you did?

If you did that on a regular basis you must have padded out your hourly rate.

Talk about assumptions,,,,,,

I thought it was fairly obvious what I was saying,,,,,,,,,, "Never once did I charge,,,, eg, 4 hrs for only one hours actual work"
Travelling was applied as a per kilometer separate charge shown clearly in all accounts.
My hourly rate, travelling, materials used, etc etc was clearly set out in each account rendered.

And, to open another tin of worms,,,,,,, a lot of companies nowadays word their accounts so that the customers have no real idea of what they are really
paying for,,,,,,,,, and even bush lawyers are left scratching their heads trying to decipher the account.
One of the all time favorites that regularly appear on accounts is,,,,,,, "Miscellaneous >>>>> $15.87"

[Oldbloke]

I think your missing the point.

Each industry is different.

You carry materials and tools, its normal for trades to charge milage or a call out charge.

I was in the professional advisory role. No tools or materials, just what's between my ears and a laptop.
Sometimes you provide a fixed quote for large jobs. That would include travel, accommodation etc.

But often you would be asked to provide a service that was just a couple of hours, or there abouts. The charge was 4 hours, whether it was 1 or 4 hours. No travel charges. Simple and easy and less paper work. Some companies apply an 8 hr minimum.

[Die Judicii]

I think your missing the point.

Each industry is different.

You carry materials and tools, its normal for trades to charge milage or a call out charge.

I was in the professional advisory role. No tools or materials, just what's between my ears and a laptop.
Sometimes you provide a fixed quote for large jobs. That would include travel, accommodation etc.

But often you would be asked to provide a service that was just a couple of hours, or there abouts. The charge was 4 hours, whether it was 1 or 4 hours. No travel charges. Simple and easy and less paper work. Some companies apply an 8 hr minimum.

No I don't believe "I'm missing the point"

"The charge was 4 hours, whether it was 1 or 4 hours"

So anything less than 4 hrs actually worked and to be charged for four hours simply spells one word in my book > RORT

[Oldbloke]

Well, to me charging to travel is a complete rip off. Everybody travels to work, why are you so special?

[cz515]

Because a travel charge is fair way of doing it. You travel 30min each way charge 1hr. You travel for 2hr each way charge 4hrs travel and whatever is work.

The best I seen is when a company charges me travel from depot, but the technician came from his home and they tell me they live 5 minutes away.

[Die Judicii]

Well, to me charging to travel is a complete rip off. Everybody travels to work, why are you so special?

Ahhh, yes.
There are different levels of what you claim to be "a complete rip off"

a) a business states upfront that they will charge eg. $1-50 per klm for trades person/s (on tools or otherwise) to attend work site.

b) a business states upfront that the hourly rate of trades person/s will be charged from the time of leaving office/workshop till return.

c) an employee on wages/salary can claim verified travel costs to and from work (plus laundry/dry cleaning) on their tax returns.

Your choice,,,,,,, but all are still a justifiable expense,,,,,, and not a RORT

Unlike billing a customer for XXX amount of hours that was not actually worked. That is a RORT, and cannot be justified.

[cz515]

Well the only reason a business would do that is that they know its a rort. Most cases it will take 1 or 2 hours work plus 1hr travel. So work 2-3hrs and charge for 4... but atleast OB was good, cuz other companies charge 8hrs.

Get two jobs a day and no wonder they are laughing to the bank.

[Lsfan]

I'm in construction and I know many examples of minimum charges, travel time, overtime, penalty rates etc. There's also the minimum notification time for cancellations.
I think it would be a bit rich/ a rort for tradespeople to charge a 4 hour minimum and then do 8 x 1 hour jobs, each at a minimum 4 hours. Probably unlikely but theoretically possible.
I prefer those that charge travel, establishment and include the first hour as the minimum charge and then bill hourly thereafter.
In the case of labourers it makes sense to have a minimum 4 or even 8 hours charge. If they are sent away after a few hours, where else are they going to go? It's likely they could've spent a full day elsewhere.

[Die Judicii]

I'm in construction and I know many examples of minimum charges, travel time, overtime, penalty rates etc. There's also the minimum notification time for cancellations.
I think it would be a bit rich/ a rort for tradespeople to charge a 4 hour minimum and then do 8 x 1 hour jobs, each at a minimum 4 hours. Probably unlikely but theoretically possible.
I prefer those that charge travel, establishment and include the first hour as the minimum charge and then bill hourly thereafter.
In the case of labourers it makes sense to have a minimum 4 or even 8 hours charge. If they are sent away after a few hours, where else are they going to go? It's likely they could've spent a full day elsewhere.

According to the "news" in general,,,,,,,, jobs are literally flowing in the doors,,,, and tradespersons (especially good & qualified ones) and reliable laborers (being the key word) are hard to find,,,,, in the current climate,,,,,,,,,, so this issue is pretty much a non event,,,, other than that I tend to agree with your perspective.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Over heads are massive these days rent for a commercial premises are through the roof. Tax man goes to town where ever he can rates to renew licences goes up yet the services you get back decrease. Suppliers dont want to supply, the price of shipping containers cost 4 times what it did 2 years ago. Everyone is feeling the pinch. Im quoting jobs and parts at the moment and seeing 10-50 dollar increases in parts month on month.

House builders that i have are now only honouring quotes for a house for 28 days. The good guys that try to stay with what they quoted 3 months ago are having to walk away from unfinished homes or go broke.

Sad state of affairs that were in at the moment and i feel they are only going to get worse in the next few months. Heavens forbid if the loonie gets in.