Button battery dramas.

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Button battery dramas.

Post by GQshayne » 26 Jun 2022, 7:05 pm

I read a small amount about this the other day, in relation to car key fobs actually. Safety changes for youngsters to prevent them swallowing them, I think. I do not pay too much attention to it to be honest.

Went to look for a scope with an illuminated reticle on Saturday, and some of them have been withdrawn from sale, as they do not meet the new legislation. We were looking at the budget end of the market, and wanted to look at the Nikko, but it was gone, and so was the Bushnell. Not sure how many brands it will effect, but I suspect a lot of them.
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Re: Button battery dramas.

Post by northdude » 26 Jun 2022, 7:28 pm

might have to mount a car battery to the scope so kids don't swallow the battery :thumbsup:
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Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 26 Jun 2022, 7:34 pm

I have stocked up on the batteries for my red dots and scopes Woolworths coles and local parts stores have removed them from the shelves. As you were saying 95% of car remotes, fobs, watches run a button battery. Pretty much a knee jerk reaction that hasn't been all that well thought out.

We have bigger problems if a kid manages to get a battery out of a red dot or scope. Just another example of legislation being passed to appease the piss weak.
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Re: Button battery dramas.

Post by deye243 » 26 Jun 2022, 7:40 pm

Makes me wonder how the hell my generation survived
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Post by bladeracer » 26 Jun 2022, 7:46 pm

AZZA'S HJ47 wrote:I have stocked up on the batteries for my red dots and scopes Woolworths coles and local parts stores have removed them from the shelves. As you were saying 95% of car remotes, fobs, watches run a button battery. Pretty much a knee jerk reaction that hasn't been all that well thought out.

We have bigger problems if a kid manages to get a battery out of a red dot or scope. Just another example of legislation being passed to appease the piss weak.


It's just the devices that are an issue, there's no issue with the batteries themselves.
The issue is that many scopes and other accessories don't comply with the requirements of preventing children from removing the batteries, many fobs, remotes and such do have something to prevent easy access so are not a problem. We can still own the batteries as far as I understand.

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/three-months-to-go-for-button-battery-safety-standards
"Under the mandatory safety and information standards, products must have secure battery compartments to prevent children from gaining access to the batteries. Manufacturers must undertake compliance testing, supply batteries in child-resistant packaging, and place additional warnings and emergency advice on packaging and instructions."
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Post by Die Judicii » 26 Jun 2022, 10:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
It's just the devices that are an issue, there's no issue with the batteries themselves.
The issue is that many scopes and other accessories don't comply with the requirements of preventing children from removing the batteries, many fobs, remotes and such do have something to prevent easy access so are not a problem. We can still own the batteries as far as I understand.

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/three-months-to-go-for-button-battery-safety-standards
"Under the mandatory safety and information standards, products must have secure battery compartments to prevent children from gaining access to the batteries. Manufacturers must undertake compliance testing, supply batteries in child-resistant packaging, and place additional warnings and emergency advice on packaging and instructions."


In support,,, and adding to what Blade says,,,,,,

So many tablets can be dangerous/fatal if swallowed by children. They (powers) simply made child proof containers,,,,,, leaving tablets still available.
The above info/link indicates the same sensible approach with seemingly no threat to supply of the batteries themselves.
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Post by Peterwho » 26 Jun 2022, 10:11 pm

More farking bulls**t from the social engineers. It is, indeed sad when children injest things their parents or others have allowed access to but this bulls**t should stop. Some smart young thing in a politician’s office hears of or experiences some version of this, then a collective sob story over coffee, more emotion and bulls**t and some dumb s**t suggest they could draft some legislation, and the s**t starts to roll downhill. We need to fix the political processes in this country. Halve their numbers would be a good start. Any f***ing minders, advisor or other associated parasite either banned or need to serve in a real job for 10 years before parachuting into a safe seat.
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Post by Col » 27 Jun 2022, 11:23 am

Just reading this thread and the whole bit leads me to ask, how the bloody hell are kids able to get to an illuminated scope if attached to a gun? Not quite the sort of kit you just leave lying around for junior to play with is it, or have I got this completely wrong.
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Post by cz515 » 27 Jun 2022, 11:30 am

I looked at the legislation it talks about having child proof containers to store batteries. So the batteries themselves are not banned. I suspect devices that don't have child tamper proof setting cannot be sold. No where does it say you cannot own a device that doesn't meet the standards and has to be returned and destroyed. So people need to stop acting like chicken, you (in most) are grown men, act like that.

And it's a blanket ban so easier to legislate, and if you start to have exceptions then plenty of other manufacturers with more money would be asking for exemptions. Inflation is high, save your tin foil ladies
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Post by JohnV » 27 Jun 2022, 12:26 pm

I get sick and tired of having limitations put on me and others because of brainless fools and idiots in the World and people who can't control or supervise their own kids .
If I had my time over I would get out of here and live in a third world country in some you actually have more freedom . We live in one of the safest countries in the World , it's so safe you want to neck yourself .
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Post by cz515 » 27 Jun 2022, 1:01 pm

John i do agree our governments are very trigger happy to enact more and more legislation.

But there is a reason why a lot of ppl in third world countries are wanting to move to Western countries. And its not because they feel they can do anything they want in those countries. The old saying goes, things look good from a far are likely far from good.


Going back to the battery issue, why is it that we are hearing about it now, apparently the law was passed 18 months ago.
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Post by MtnMan » 27 Jun 2022, 1:12 pm

Got to be able to buy a button battery first.
Only last week a mate of mine had to buy a new welding helmet because the battery in the helmet he had was flat and he couldn't find a new one to buy anywhere. CR 3420.
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Post by bladeracer » 27 Jun 2022, 2:26 pm

MtnMan wrote:Got to be able to buy a button battery first.
Only last week a mate of mine had to buy a new welding helmet because the battery in the helmet he had was flat and he couldn't find a new one to buy anywhere. CR 3420.


When I buy something with a weird battery I buy a heap of spares for it.
Can't find any CR3420's though, maybe the CR2430?

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=cr3420+batteries&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=cr3420&LH_PrefLoc=2
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Post by JohnV » 27 Jun 2022, 2:51 pm

cz515 wrote:John i do agree our governments are very trigger happy to enact more and more legislation.

But there is a reason why a lot of ppl in third world countries are wanting to move to Western countries. And its not because they feel they can do anything they want in those countries. The old saying goes, things look good from a far are likely far from good.


Going back to the battery issue, why is it that we are hearing about it now, apparently the law was passed 18 months ago.

You are right and maybe third world was a bad choice of words but their is places with less restrictive rules than this country and easier business opportunities
A mate I served with in the Army went to Singapore to live and he started a security business and got lots of help from the Government and financial assistance and is now very successful far more than if he had stayed in Australia which would have given him no help at all in fact Vietnam veterans were treated like s**t .
He wanted me to go and work for him and now I really wish I had said yes .
Like take Russia for a wild example . Pensioners just got a 10% rise ! Around 14% interest rate on your savings , No gun licenses , no registration and the fine for hunting in a National park = $10 and they don't even confiscate your gun . Now not advocating hunting in a National park it just illustrates how oppressed we are by heavy handed legislations and how hard it is to make any money on your savings . I would be better off retiring in Afghanistan I would get more money . Australia is a bad place now for old people .
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Re: Button battery dramas.

Post by cz515 » 27 Jun 2022, 4:18 pm

MtnMan wrote:Got to be able to buy a button battery first.
Only last week a mate of mine had to buy a new welding helmet because the battery in the helmet he had was flat and he couldn't find a new one to buy anywhere. CR 3420.


You sure it was 3420? Not cr2430. I mean its easy to do that at times. And if he was searching for 3420 the reason he couldn't find it cuz they never made it.

Plenty of 2430 can be found, at worse from enbay or Amazon
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Re: Button battery dramas.

Post by JohnV » 27 Jun 2022, 4:36 pm

Battery Reference Chart
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Post by Blr243 » 27 Jun 2022, 6:17 pm

My guitar tuner runs on button batteries. If I can’t tune my guitar my songs will sound even worse than they do now . Could Australians cope with this situation?
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Post by GQshayne » 27 Jun 2022, 7:51 pm

cz515 wrote:I looked at the legislation it talks about having child proof containers to store batteries. So the batteries themselves are not banned. I suspect devices that don't have child tamper proof setting cannot be sold. No where does it say you cannot own a device that doesn't meet the standards and has to be returned and destroyed. So people need to stop acting like chicken, you (in most) are grown men, act like that.

And it's a blanket ban so easier to legislate, and if you start to have exceptions then plenty of other manufacturers with more money would be asking for exemptions. Inflation is high, save your tin foil ladies


We are a small global market. Many manufacturers will not make a model just to suit our laws. And the 18 month old legislation came into effect last week. Plenty of time for changes to current designs to be implemented - but they weren't, for some brands at least.
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Post by cz515 » 27 Jun 2022, 9:43 pm

Johnv i am getting old.. i did look at that exact chart i didn't find cr3420.

GQS mate, as i said it doesn't matter for those who already own one, the distributors should have been communicating it for 18+ months so consumers could stock up. I suppose there is no stopping people selling used devices.

Now in EU under  EN 62115 there is already legislation regarding button batteries where its mandated that they cannot be removed without using a tool, so i reckon most scopes (produced for europe) already would have that setup.
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Post by Blr243 » 27 Jun 2022, 10:15 pm

Are us old worn out lever gun enthusiasts going to have to drag out our Allen key s , remove out red dot holos , and go back To fuzzy iron sights ?
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Post by Oldbloke » 28 Jun 2022, 8:24 am

Col wrote:Just reading this thread and the whole bit leads me to ask, how the bloody hell are kids able to get to an illuminated scope if attached to a gun? Not quite the sort of kit you just leave lying around for junior to play with is it, or have I got this completely wrong.



You read my mind.

Classic case of legislation not being thought through. Poorly implemented.
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Post by JohnV » 28 Jun 2022, 9:13 am

cz515 wrote:Johnv i am getting old.. i did look at that exact chart i didn't find cr3420.

GQS mate, as i said it doesn't matter for those who already own one, the distributors should have been communicating it for 18+ months so consumers could stock up. I suppose there is no stopping people selling used devices.

Now in EU under  EN 62115 there is already legislation regarding button batteries where its mandated that they cannot be removed without using a tool, so i reckon most scopes (produced for europe) already would have that setup.

I don't think I have ever seen a CR 3420
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Post by Billo » 28 Jun 2022, 9:17 am

Col wrote:Just reading this thread and the whole bit leads me to ask, how the bloody hell are kids able to get to an illuminated scope if attached to a gun? Not quite the sort of kit you just leave lying around for junior to play with is it, or have I got this completely wrong.


As Col highlighted, if you have children playing with your firearm and expensive then you dont deserve a firearm. I think the exemption gives illuminated scopes some lee way.

Exemptions
This mandatory standard does not apply to:

hearing aids
consumer goods that were first supplied to a consumer before the requirements became mandatory
professional equipment where all of the following apply:
the equipment is intended to be used in trades, professions or industries
the equipment is not intended for sale to the general public
the equipment is not intended to be used where children are present
audio-visual and information and communications technology equipment containing button/coin batteries that are soldered in place.
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Post by JohnV » 28 Jun 2022, 9:45 am

Then a rifle scope locked in a Police approved safe is surely not in the proximity of children . Case closed .
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Post by bladeracer » 28 Jun 2022, 12:13 pm

Col wrote:Just reading this thread and the whole bit leads me to ask, how the bloody hell are kids able to get to an illuminated scope if attached to a gun? Not quite the sort of kit you just leave lying around for junior to play with is it, or have I got this completely wrong.


Scopes and optics aren't regulated, anybody can own them and use them for whatever purpose they wish to, they don't all get mounted onto firearms. A photographer I met years ago carried a rifle stock with a scope on it for scanning for birds. I bought a scope myself purely for surveying land levels. And I have more spare scopes not fitted to firearms than I have fitted. I have been given a scope by somebody that has never owned any firearms and never had any use for them.

But I agree, why are parents not teaching and protecting their children from these sorts of hazards?

Some of these optics are difficult enough to get into the battery compartments already, even without child-proofing them.
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Post by Fionn » 28 Jun 2022, 1:48 pm

I agree with the laws being passed, about 20 kids turning up to hospital a week having swallowed a button battery, shows there was a problem.

Its a horrific way to die,

Have a read of this article to understand the dangers

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/button-batteries-landmines-in-the-loungeroom/13041928
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Post by bladeracer » 28 Jun 2022, 2:33 pm

The link I posted had this:
"Three children have died and 44 have been severely injured in Australia from incidents involving button batteries, and more than one child a month is seriously injured as a result of ingesting or inserting the batteries".

But Wiki has this:
"Three child deaths in Australia reveal that in each case: i) the ingestion was not witnessed, ii) the source of the battery remains unknown, iii) initial misdiagnosis delayed appropriate intervention, iv) diagnosis was confirmed by X-ray, v) in each case the battery lodged in the child's oesophagus, vi) the offending batteries were 20mm lithium cells, vii) death occurred 19 days to 3 weeks after ingestion."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_cell#Accidental_ingestion

Button batteries were invented seventy years ago, so as near as I can determine, in seventy years there have been between one and three child deaths?

Outside of Australia, Wiki offers these data:
"In Greater Manchester, England, with a population of 2,700,000, two children between 12 months and six years old died, and five suffered life-changing injuries, in the 18 months leading up to October 2014. In the United States, on average over 3,000 pediatric button batteries ingestions are reported each year with a trend toward major and fatal outcomes increasing. Coin cells of diameter 20 mm or greater cause the most serious injuries, even if expended and intact. In Auckland, New Zealand as of 2018 there are about 20 cases per year requiring hospitalization."

Surely education is a more effective way to manage this?

Or as mentioned on Wiki, "In 2020, Duracell announced that they were coating some of their lithium button cells with a bitterant compound to discourage children from ingesting them. An alternative solution is to design (or litigate) the offending cells, mostly 20mm lithium cells, out of the supply chain."

The damage this legislation is likely to cause to our small businesses seems to be far out of proportion to the scale of the issue.
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Post by Fionn » 28 Jun 2022, 5:24 pm

bladeracer wrote:The damage this legislation is likely to cause to our small businesses seems to be far out of proportion to the scale of the issue.


Lets quantify this statement a bit further.

How much do you think will it cost small business in Australia as a whole to be compliant to the requirement? taking into account they have had 18 months already to transition to the law.

How much would it cost for the government to take no action on the matter?
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Post by bladeracer » 28 Jun 2022, 6:24 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:The damage this legislation is likely to cause to our small businesses seems to be far out of proportion to the scale of the issue.


Lets quantify this statement a bit further.

How much do you think will it cost small business in Australia as a whole to be compliant to the requirement? taking into account they have had 18 months already to transition to the law.

How much would it cost for the government to take no action on the matter?


It will completely cut supply of some of the product they currently sell, so I would guess anything from no cost at all for those businesses that don't sell these products to quite severe for those businesses that specialise in them.

I can't see that it would cost the government anything at all to do nothing.
It costs us taxpayers something every time a child is injured and requires medical care.
What would it cost the government to push a media education campaign instead?
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Post by Fionn » 28 Jun 2022, 7:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:
It will completely cut supply of some of the product they currently sell, so I would guess anything from no cost at all for those businesses that don't sell these products to quite severe for those businesses that specialise in them.


When consulted the industry suggested that a secure battery compartment requirement was unlikely to be unduly burdensome if phased in over an appropriate period.

The issue, it seems is some sections of the industry have have not implemented changes in the 18 months given to them to do so. I know I haven't seen many sales in the last 18 months trying to move old stock to avoid the issue, if anything the prices have steadily gone up over this time.

So I don't have a lot of sympathy for these businesses as its been a long implementation.

bladeracer wrote:I can't see that it would cost the government anything at all to do nothing.
It costs us taxpayers something every time a child is injured and requires medical care.
What would it cost the government to push a media education campaign instead?


The forecast economic benefit to government is between $9.6 million and $32.1 million, comprising of reduced Emergency presentations, Severe injuries and Fatalities etc.
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