Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 31 Jul 2022, 6:35 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Licenced / leased the land is being used and permission is required it's as simple as that Fionn


Thanks for coming back and giving it another go, Did you have a chance to look up what Licenced versus leased means? because if you did, it still seems that you do not understand it.

on_one_wheel wrote:The laws and rules here are written very clearly.


If they are as clearly written as you seem to think, it should be very easy for you to post a link to them.

You seem to have a hard on for showing that I am wrong here, so prove it, *waiting

on_one_wheel wrote:How about you (Fionn) give us one example of crown land that (in your words) is "licenced" and can be hunted on without permission from whoever holds the licence.

Just one example will be fine.


I have given you multiple examples, in fact in case you missed it, I said All licenced crown lands

But as a singular answer to your question that you asked, is Grove's Gap
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 31 Jul 2022, 6:40 pm

Die Judicii wrote:What Fion said re plantation owners not wanting anyone shooting (regardless of whether crown land or private land) would also be related
to the simple fact that they,, and the saw mills don't want to be milling timber that contains projectiles. :thumbsdown:


There are many reasons for them not wanting people to shoot on these places, but it generally comes down to safety and the duties they have to their workers under OH &S.

Instead of taking nuanced approach, they have chosen an all out no permission stand on the matter.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 31 Jul 2022, 6:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:It would fix the deer issue we're having on a Landcare site.


Have you actually formally asked to shoot there? (as in writing or applying for a permit) if so what was their reason for refusal.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 31 Jul 2022, 6:45 pm

I can find a Grove's Gap Road, but not a Grove's Gap as an area or region. I do get hits on Grove's Gap State Forest
Who is it licenced to so we can ask them whether we can shoot in there?

This article seems to refer to Grove's Gap as regenerated logged state forest?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-30/vicforests-accused-of-failing-to-regenerate-logged-forests/100652148


Fionn wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Licenced / leased the land is being used and permission is required it's as simple as that Fionn


Thanks for coming back and giving it another go, Did you have a chance to look up what Licenced versus leased means? because if you did, it still seems that you do not understand it.

on_one_wheel wrote:The laws and rules here are written very clearly.


If they are as clearly written as you seem to think, it should be very easy for you to post a link to them.

You seem to have a hard on for showing that I am wrong here, so prove it, *waiting

on_one_wheel wrote:How about you (Fionn) give us one example of crown land that (in your words) is "licenced" and can be hunted on without permission from whoever holds the licence.

Just one example will be fine.


I have given you multiple examples, in fact in case you missed it, I said All licenced crown lands

But as a singular answer to your question that you asked, is Grove's Gap
Last edited by bladeracer on 31 Jul 2022, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 31 Jul 2022, 6:54 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:It would fix the deer issue we're having on a Landcare site.


Have you actually formally asked to shoot there? (as in writing or applying for a permit) if so what was their reason for refusal.


I and other members of Landcare have had several discussions, verbal and via email, with the current and previous contact with HVP. They simply tell us that they won't give us (or anybody else) permission to shoot, so (as far as I'm aware) nobody has made a formal request as yet. There were reasons we didn't want to pursue it formally but I don't recall what they were - it was discussed pre-covid, but we have asked the new contact this year with the same result.

You raise a valid point though, but is there any requirement for them or anybody else to provide reasons for refusal? If somebody asks to shoot on my property I don't have to give them any reason for refusal.

I did just check the permit we have from HVP to allow us to plant on the property and it includes this section:
"Also, here is reminder about visiting our plantations.
Activities Not Permitted
Certain activities are only permitted on HVP Land with specific written authorisation. These include:
· No Motorised activities, including motorbike or motocross riding.
· No Driving of vehicles off formed roads, including 4WD touring.
· No Cutting or removing firewood.
· No Destroying or removing flora or fauna (exempt from seed collection as written permission provided).
· No Shooting or hunting.
· No Lighting of fires.
· No Camping.
· No organised group event or tour (without a permit).
· No Accessing HVP land outside daylight hours. "

To this point I have only been looking at it from the viewpoint of Landcare, but perhaps I should ask them as an individual as well.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 31 Jul 2022, 6:57 pm

Fionn wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:What Fion said re plantation owners not wanting anyone shooting (regardless of whether crown land or private land) would also be related
to the simple fact that they,, and the saw mills don't want to be milling timber that contains projectiles. :thumbsdown:


There are many reasons for them not wanting people to shoot on these places, but it generally comes down to safety and the duties they have to their workers under OH &S.

Instead of taking nuanced approach, they have chosen an all out no permission stand on the matter.


Are you now saying that licencees now do have the option to not give permission?
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 31 Jul 2022, 7:39 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:What Fion said re plantation owners not wanting anyone shooting (regardless of whether crown land or private land) would also be related
to the simple fact that they,, and the saw mills don't want to be milling timber that contains projectiles. :thumbsdown:


There are many reasons for them not wanting people to shoot on these places, but it generally comes down to safety and the duties they have to their workers under OH &S.

Instead of taking nuanced approach, they have chosen an all out no permission stand on the matter.


Are you now saying that licencees now do have the option to not give permission?


Yes, of course they have the option of not giving permission, it just that "permission" has no legal standing one way or the other.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 31 Jul 2022, 7:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:I can find a Grove's Gap Road, but not a Grove's Gap as an area or region. I do get hits on Grove's Gap State Forest
Who is it licenced to so we can ask them whether we can shoot in there?


Vicforest.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 31 Jul 2022, 7:53 pm

bladeracer wrote: You raise a valid point though, but is there any requirement for them or anybody else to provide reasons for refusal? If somebody asks to shoot on my property I don't have to give them any reason for refusal.


No requirement.

The permit system is company policy, not law. Nothing in legislation allows permits to be issued or refused by HVP. Although some of the things they say require a permit for are covered by laws such as Driving of vehicles off formed roads or Cutting or removing firewood as its crown lands and the same laws apply to it as other crown land.

If you look at the not permitted items you will see that you can't even ride a motorbike in the area which would include formed road ways, but you can drive a car.

But on crown land you can ride a motorbike on formed roads.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Johnno » 31 Jul 2022, 10:55 pm

It would be much easier to buy some acreage than spending time and money trying to explore SA crown land rules and regs. Still some cheap land in the State's northern areas.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 01 Aug 2022, 4:23 am

Johnno wrote:It would be much easier to buy some acreage than spending time and money trying to explore SA crown land rules and regs. Still some cheap land in the State's northern areas.


My brother and I came very close to buying a decent size block in SA just for shooting on about 25 years ago. No hunting at all though as it was salt country. Large land but no access roads. He went out to check it out, got seriously bogged and gave up on the idea - but it was very, very cheap.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 03 Aug 2022, 6:57 pm

I discovered this old thread entirely by accident today and saw this statement.

"i googled crown land water frontage vic and was led to a government site ran by the north east catchment authority, here is an extract " A licence over a Crown land water frontage provides personal permission to enter and use the land for a specified purpose but does not offer exclusive use to the licensee. When a Crown land water frontage is licensed, the public retains the right to enter and remain on the land for passive recreational purposes, e.g. walking, fishing or bird watching. However, members of the public are not permitted to camp, light fires or carry firearms on the land." and another "
Not all water frontages are Crown land. Only 20% of Victoria’s 128,000 kilometres of water frontage is Crown land. The rest is generally privately owned land."

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=9268#p181731

Do any South Aussies know whether water frontage public access is a thing over there?
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 03 Aug 2022, 7:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:I discovered this old thread entirely by accident today and saw this statement.

"i googled crown land water frontage vic and was led to a government site ran by the north east catchment authority, here is an extract " A licence over a Crown land water frontage provides personal permission to enter and use the land for a specified purpose but does not offer exclusive use to the licensee. When a Crown land water frontage is licensed, the public retains the right to enter and remain on the land for passive recreational purposes, e.g. walking, fishing or bird watching. However, members of the public are not permitted to camp, light fires or carry firearms on the land." and another "
Not all water frontages are Crown land. Only 20% of Victoria’s 128,000 kilometres of water frontage is Crown land. The rest is generally privately owned land."

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=9268#p181731

Do any South Aussies know whether water frontage public access is a thing over there?


Some of the laws changed last year, have a read of this if interested.

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0021/540714/DELWP-Crown-Water-Frontage_An-explanatory-guide-to-your-licence-conditions.pdf
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 6:48 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Licenced / leased the land is being used and permission is required it's as simple as that Fionn
The laws and rules here are written very clearly.

How about you (Fionn) give us one example of crown land that (in your words) is "licenced" and can be hunted on without permission from whoever holds the licence.

Just one example will be fine.


How are you going finding these laws and rules that are very clearly written (your words) to prove me wrong? Been a few days and you haven't posted them.

I am sure its just because you been busy, although you seem to have time to post 10+ posts since. :unknown:

BTW, I answered your question. Not sure if you saw that as you haven't acknowledged it, which I assume is because you missed it or again have been busy. ;)
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Aug 2022, 7:16 pm

Yawn ... :roll:
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 7:35 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Yawn ... :roll:


How surprising that what you were talking about was complete bulls**t and you can't admit that you were wrong. :clap:

On the plus side, at least I have something direct people to to show this, so thanks I guess. :thumbsup:
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Aug 2022, 7:52 pm

Yeah ok, just as long as your feeling relevant fionn :thumbsup:
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 8:15 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Yeah ok, just as long as your feeling relevant fionn :thumbsup:


Thanks on_one_wheel and I hope your feelings weren't hurt when I pointed out your irrelevance on this matter. I understand that you do it try to do it to look more intelligent and knowledgeable on a topic and for attention.

But there are better ways to approach this. I guess its tough to be called out when you are wrong in public and even harder to admit such. So I don't hold it against you, we are all good. :friends:

I understand I may have put you under pressure to answer, so feel free to do some research and get back to me at anytime with a more considered response or question.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2022, 8:28 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I discovered this old thread entirely by accident today and saw this statement.

"i googled crown land water frontage vic and was led to a government site ran by the north east catchment authority, here is an extract " A licence over a Crown land water frontage provides personal permission to enter and use the land for a specified purpose but does not offer exclusive use to the licensee. When a Crown land water frontage is licensed, the public retains the right to enter and remain on the land for passive recreational purposes, e.g. walking, fishing or bird watching. However, members of the public are not permitted to camp, light fires or carry firearms on the land." and another "
Not all water frontages are Crown land. Only 20% of Victoria’s 128,000 kilometres of water frontage is Crown land. The rest is generally privately owned land."

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=9268#p181731

Do any South Aussies know whether water frontage public access is a thing over there?


Some of the laws changed last year, have a read of this if interested.

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0021/540714/DELWP-Crown-Water-Frontage_An-explanatory-guide-to-your-licence-conditions.pdf


Thanks, Fionn, that's some interesting, but confusing stuff to read.
One point I spotted is that when hunting does get mentioned it refers you to GMA, who tells us that we need permission from lessees and licensees.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2022, 8:30 pm

Fion

Nowhere on that pdf or the Web site does it say you can hunt/shoot. It's about camping and fishing only


https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... itions.pdf

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... -frontages
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Aug 2022, 8:36 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Fion

Nowhere on that pdf or the Web site does it say you can hunt/shoot. It's about camping and fishing only


https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... itions.pdf

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... -frontages


Funny about that, probably because it's a secret, long forgotten old law that we don't actually need anyone's permission to shoot on "licensed" crown land.
Hey Fionn :lol:
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2022, 8:42 pm

Oops. It's in the guide.

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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 8:47 pm

bladeracer wrote:Thanks, Fionn, that's some interesting, but confusing stuff to read.
One point I spotted is that when hunting does get mentioned it refers you to GMA, who tells us that we need permission from lessees and licensees.


As I have said all along, they say/want you to get permission (with good reasons IMO), but at no point do they say its against the law or quote an offence etc.

That's the point I have been making, its not actually against the law.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 8:53 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Fion

Nowhere on that pdf or the Web site does it say you can hunt/shoot. It's about camping and fishing only


https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... itions.pdf

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... -frontages


Its does in the first one, the second doesn't say anything about it.

But again, there is no law quoted, but take camping, firefighting, firewood, driving/vehicles etc, their are laws that prohibit these things (camping was changed recently).

Thats the point, things aren't against the law unless their is a law saying so.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 04 Aug 2022, 8:57 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Funny about that, probably because it's a secret, long forgotten old law that we don't actually need anyone's permission to shoot on "licensed" crown land.
Hey Fionn :lol:


Yeah No,

Laws don't work like that.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2022, 9:03 pm

Fionn wrote:Its does in the first one, the second doesn't say anything about it.

But again, there is no law quoted, but take camping, firefighting, firewood, driving/vehicles etc, their are laws that prohibit these things (camping was changed recently).

Thats the point, things aren't against the law unless their is a law saying so.


Yes, that is my understanding of our laws as well, it's legal until there is a law prohibiting it.
But I have far too much to lose to risk testing the system only to find there is some obscure precedent buried somewhere.

I haven't yet worked out a way of conclusively determining if a piece of crown land is under lease or licence. I guess if I ask and get a response in writing it would at least support my claim to be legal even if it turned out I'd been lied to :-)
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2022, 9:08 pm

It's in here,

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... al-use.pdf

But it is only talking about river frontage.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2022, 9:19 pm

Oldbloke wrote:It's in here,

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... al-use.pdf

But it is only talking about river frontage.


Yes, that's where I took that screenshot from.
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2022, 9:32 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:It's in here,

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... al-use.pdf

But it is only talking about river frontage.


Yes, that's where I took that screenshot from.


Lol. I hadn't spotted that. :thumbsup:
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Re: Hunting Crown Land in South Australia

Post by Fionn » 05 Aug 2022, 4:22 pm

Oldbloke wrote:It's in here,

https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov. ... al-use.pdf

But it is only talking about river frontage.


I have Crown land river frontage on my property that is licenced via DELWP, although its actually a creek, not a river and is hundred odd dollars licence per 5 years.

Never seen DELWP come and look at it, but they send letters occasionally like the when the changes to camping came in.

If anyone came and asked if they could shoot on it, I would tell them no, like I do with the rest of the property. But I know I couldn't do anything if they did shoot on it.
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