Picture editing?

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Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 11 Aug 2022, 10:30 pm

I do very basic editing to add notes and crop and such, but I want to do something new and have no idea how to go about it.
Was hoping somebody here might be a bit of guru :-)

I have the military targets, which are simple black on an orange background.
But I've been given a ream of orange paper, which is a pretty good colour match to the original.
This would allow me to print them just in black rather than in colour.
But how do I take the PDF, remove all the orange, and leave "nothing" in its place?
As it is a scan the "black" is not a perfect black, so it'd also be good if I could work out how to select all of the black and make it a single shade?

Can anybody direct me to a tutorial that doesn't require me to already understand what I'm doing :-)
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by G-Swiss » 12 Aug 2022, 1:06 am

Sent you a PM mate.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Larry » 12 Aug 2022, 8:00 am

The instructions depend on what image editors you have. It is a relativity easy task to select all of one colour and change it to another or replace it with a transparent background. I like to use Adobe Photoshop for that type of thing there are lots of tutorials on the net for that program.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by on_one_wheel » 12 Aug 2022, 9:24 am

Larry's suggestion is great, especially about the tutorial.

There's also often a easy way to do a "ai" cut out of a picture that traces the outline and enables you to paste it on a blank page.

Solid images such as these edit well like that especially on a more simplified mobile phone style photo editing set up.

There classic targets, probably worth printing a heap and banging them on ebay :thumbsup:
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by ob1 » 12 Aug 2022, 10:22 am

Depending on the image, you could do a free online conversion to SVG (which will create a solid of the main graphic) then convert the product again to JPEG for print.

The simplest way is to upload the attachment here (max size 4MB) and someone will likely convert it for you.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 10:51 am

Larry wrote:The instructions depend on what image editors you have. It is a relativity easy task to select all of one colour and change it to another or replace it with a transparent background. I like to use Adobe Photoshop for that type of thing there are lots of tutorials on the net for that program.


I used Paintshop Pro 7 for many years, but it's sitting on one of my old hard drives (we lived in the bus for two years so 95% of our stuff was in storage, and most still is). After moving to Vic, I had to build a new box with Win10 (I stayed with Win7 until then), and the photo editor thing in Win10 gave me all the basics I needed (I have TurboCAD for technical drawing). Since having to build a new box with Win11 this year, I hate the picture editor it's lumbered with, but I've been able to make it do most of the very basic things I need, so I haven't bothered chasing anything outside the OEM. If I could work out how to import the Win10 editor from my old hard drive onto my new one that would be a big help generally, but wouldn't help me with this issue.

I did download Gimp at some point but couldn't make any sense of it. I bought Photoshop many years ago and had the same problem, couldn't make any sense of it. I also downloaded lots and lots of free and trial editors back then hoping to find something that was not aimed at the "already gifted", but it wasn't until I got a free copy of Paintshop Pro 3 on a British magazine (companies would give away full-function copies of their older software and games, hoping you would like it and buy the new versions) that I finally found something I could understand, so I bought that and used it for many years, but stopped upgrading it when it became Corel. I vaguely recall buying one of the upgrades that had gone all "Photoshoppy" and I couldn't make it work any more, so I went back to PSP7.

I did the same thing with CAD programs until settling on TurboCAD back when it was still for DOS and have used it ever since - it gets more and more complicated and bloated every release, but I can still get it to do what I need. I learned the basics on AutoCAD, but got given a pirate copy years later and found though I could still use it, it had become so bloated that even simple commands were buried deep in menus, slowing it down very considerably - I stayed with TC. I've looked at a variety of picture editing tutorials, but as I have zero interest in advanced picture editing, I just don't understand even the basics to be able use the correct search terms :-)

What I think I'm looking for is something that can turn a picture into a stencil?

Just Googled PSP7 and found old copies online so I'm downloading one now to see if it works as I remember :-)

G-Swiss has very graciously offered to help, which may sort me out, thanks heaps G!
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 10:52 am

ob1 wrote:Depending on the image, you could do a free online conversion to SVG (which will create a solid of the main graphic) then convert the product again to JPEG for print.


Okay, I think I understand what you're suggesting, so I will look at that, thanks :-)
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 11:39 am

I've seen lots of tutorials and videos that do indeed make it amazingly easy, but I just can't wrap my head around it myself :-)

Making them "available" is out. This is an official training target printed for the Army, and supplied to the military clubs by the Army. Because the media like to grab these things and create false stories behind them, they end up tabled in parliament because "crazy shooters are training on human silhouettes" - anybody doing IPSC in the '90's witnessed this hysteria, and we used very rudimentary silhouettes back then.
ipsc-cb-l-2021_480x480.jpg
ipsc-cb-l-2021_480x480.jpg (118.82 KiB) Viewed 4265 times

Getting the Army to sanction a club allowing one out into the wild was an ordeal in itself, I don't want to repay that by having them show up everywhere, and risk the Army withdrawing them from the clubs. The other targets are all heavy paper, so can be very easily copied, the Figure 11 is printed directly onto Corflute, making posting or scanning difficult.

There are lots of renderings or facsimiles of the target already available, generally very reduced for backyard air-rifles, but anybody with a little editing knowledge (even at my level) can blow them up sufficiently to print very useable versions of them. There are several different "versions" of the silhouette, with different rifles and uniforms, but they all accomplish the same end result, a very randomised collection of colour splotches that form your aiming point, on a starkly-contrasting orange-yellow background.

I just want to be able to enjoy practicing on them in the event I manage to get to a competition shoot, and for that, a rough "rendering" would work fine. But I decided I would also like to let anybody else local to me practice on them. In that case I wanted to ensure they were seeing exactly the same targets they would see upon rolling up to a competition shoot, rather than spend months practicing on an "artist's impression", making the real thing look totally alien when viewed through the SMLE sights at 200m :-)

As far as I can work out, the closest place using these is at Little River, three-hours from me, so I've never been there. Otherwise, Rankins Springs, NSW (LERA) and ANZAC Rifle Range (MRCA) in Sydney are next closest. My daughter is moving from Brisbane, to Melbourne next week though, fifteen minutes from the CBD. I absolutely hate Melbourne, even just driving through it, but with her living there it may make Little River more viable. Taking a whole day or two away from the farm just to do some shooting is not easy, spending most of that time with my daughter would likely make it much easier - it also lets me completely bypass the middle of Melbourne :-)


on_one_wheel wrote:Larry's suggestion is great, especially about the tutorial.

There's also often a easy way to do a "ai" cut out of a picture that traces the outline and enables you to paste it on a blank page.

Solid images such as these edit well like that especially on a more simplified mobile phone style photo editing set up.

There classic targets, probably worth printing a heap and banging them on ebay :thumbsup:
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 11:53 am

Larry wrote:The instructions depend on what image editors you have. It is a relativity easy task to select all of one colour and change it to another or replace it with a transparent background. I like to use Adobe Photoshop for that type of thing there are lots of tutorials on the net for that program.


I can't recall any Adobe product that made sense to me :-)
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Fionn » 12 Aug 2022, 12:26 pm

Is this what you wanted? easy to do in Inkscape, if you know what you are doing, basically trace bitmap and changing colours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPV6AtjGBg

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Re: Picture editing?

Post by deye243 » 12 Aug 2022, 12:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:I've seen lots of tutorials and videos that do indeed make it amazingly easy, but I just can't wrap my head around it myself :-)

Making them "available" is out. This is an official training target printed for the Army, and supplied to the military clubs by the Army. Because the media like to grab these things and create false stories behind them, they end up tabled in parliament because "crazy shooters are training on human silhouettes" - anybody doing IPSC in the '90's witnessed this hysteria, and we used very rudimentary silhouettes back then.
The attachment ipsc-cb-l-2021_480x480.jpg is no longer available

[/quote]
Yes I remember that well and that Target brings back some memories , Hysteria is the perfect word to describe it to .
I now make them out of 10mm mild steel plate quick lick of paint and back into it again .
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 1:25 pm

Fionn wrote:Is this what you wanted? easy to do in Inkscape, if you know what you are doing, basically trace bitmap and changing colours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPV6AtjGBg

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That is very good, and similar to the Figure 12 target.

It's the "if you know what you are doing bit" that doesn't work for me :-)

I've downloaded Inkscape and I'll have a look at the video when I get a chance though, perhaps it might explain it at my level.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 1:26 pm

deye243 wrote:Yes I remember that well and that Target brings back some memories , Hysteria is the perfect word to describe it to .
I now make them out of 10mm mild steel plate quick lick of paint and back into it again .
Screenshot_20220812-125552_Gallery.jpg


Those are excellent, next time you're cutting some out I'd love to buy some :-)
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Aug 2022, 2:25 pm

You can try paint.net

Looks like I might have been beaten. lol

Free download here

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Download paint.net.JPG
Download paint.net.JPG (251.3 KiB) Viewed 4247 times
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by on_one_wheel » 12 Aug 2022, 2:30 pm

Perhaps you can put up some decent pictures here and a any number of members can download the picture, edit it and upload the edited version for you ?

If it needs to be high resolution for sharper lines you might be able to use a photo hosting website and bang a link up
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 2:32 pm

Oldbloke wrote:You can try paint.net

Looks like I might have been beaten. lol

Free download here

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Download paint.net.JPG


Paint.net is included in Win11, it's what I use currently to put notes and info on my pictures. I did try searching the help in that but got nowhere. I don't know if it can't do what I want or if i simply doesn't understand my inexpert choice of search terms.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 2:35 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Perhaps you can put up some decent pictures here and a any number of members can download the picture, edit it and upload the edited version for you ?

If it needs to be high resolution for sharper lines you might be able to use a photo hosting website and bang a link up


That would effectively put it into the public domain, which I don't want to be responsible for.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by on_one_wheel » 12 Aug 2022, 3:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Perhaps you can put up some decent pictures here and a any number of members can download the picture, edit it and upload the edited version for you ?

If it needs to be high resolution for sharper lines you might be able to use a photo hosting website and bang a link up


That would effectively put it into the public domain, which I don't want to be responsible for.


You've already done that and I'm already on my way to printing a mountain of them off to flog on ebay :lol:
I wouldn't be too concerned about copyright, if it is under copyright, it's only going to be an issue if you go ahead and make money from reproducing prints.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Fionn » 12 Aug 2022, 3:50 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:Is this what you wanted? easy to do in Inkscape, if you know what you are doing, basically trace bitmap and changing colours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPV6AtjGBg

Image
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That is very good, and similar to the Figure 12 target.

It's the "if you know what you are doing bit" that doesn't work for me :-)

I've downloaded Inkscape and I'll have a look at the video when I get a chance though, perhaps it might explain it at my level.


This took me 2 mins to do from a photo I found on the net.

While Inkscape is a very powerful and complex program, for what you want its easy to do, just take a good square on picture of it with your phone, with even lighting and without reflections if possible, open the image in Inkscape and trace bitmap using the standard settings will give you what you want. Trace bitmap is simply pressing the function button in the menu, it does the tracing automatically.

As your image is basically 2 colours, its pretty simple. The harder bit in Inkscape is cleaning up images/vectors but you shouldn't need to do this.

This will give you a scalable vector image, which is easy to resize to anything you want or to change any colours.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Aug 2022, 3:51 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:You can try paint.net

Looks like I might have been beaten. lol

Free download here

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Download paint.net.JPG


Paint.net is included in Win11, it's what I use currently to put notes and info on my pictures. I did try searching the help in that but got nowhere. I don't know if it can't do what I want or if i simply doesn't understand my inexpert choice of search terms.


Don't get confused. "MS Paint" is not "Paint.net"
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Fionn » 12 Aug 2022, 3:55 pm

bladeracer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Perhaps you can put up some decent pictures here and a any number of members can download the picture, edit it and upload the edited version for you ?

If it needs to be high resolution for sharper lines you might be able to use a photo hosting website and bang a link up


That would effectively put it into the public domain, which I don't want to be responsible for.


Its a pretty easy image to come across on the internet and don't think its copyrighted as its used all around the world.

But anyone can feel free to use the image I created above and I can send the svg file to anyone who wants it.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 4:16 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:You've already done that and I'm already on my way to printing a mountain of them off to flog on ebay :lol:
I wouldn't be too concerned about copyright, if it is under copyright, it's only going to be an issue if you go ahead and make money from reproducing prints.


I have never posted the actual image suitable for copying, but there are lots of photos of it that anybody could make a reasonable representation of.
Nothing to do with copyright, I was asked not to disseminate it so I won't. As I said, there is a fear that if it becomes a common target there is likely to be a media frenzy eventually and the Army will simply stop supplying them to the military clubs.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 4:19 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:You can try paint.net

Looks like I might have been beaten. lol

Free download here

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

The attachment Download paint.net.JPG is no longer available


Paint.net is included in Win11, it's what I use currently to put notes and info on my pictures. I did try searching the help in that but got nowhere. I don't know if it can't do what I want or if i simply doesn't understand my inexpert choice of search terms.


Don't get confused. "MS Paint" is not "Paint.net"


No confusion. If you are using Win11, open Paint.net and see for yourself.
MS Paint is another program, also included in Win11.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 4:32 pm

Fionn wrote:Its a pretty easy image to come across on the internet and don't think its copyrighted as its used all around the world.

But anyone can feel free to use the image I created above and I can send the svg file to anyone who wants it.


I spent many months trying to find it, even the printers I've contacted can't get a copy of it.
As I said earlier, there are lots of artistic representations of it online, but I have found none of the actual image suitable for printing perfect copies, only photos. The Figure 12 image you posted is clearly not identical to the actual Figure 12 we use, it is somebody's impression of it, probably done from a photo.
Target Figure-12.jpeg
Target Figure-12.jpeg (40.21 KiB) Viewed 4232 times
Army-targetb.jpg
Army-targetb.jpg (22.64 KiB) Viewed 4232 times

One printer here that offered to print them for me gave me a quote and when I asked when I should bring it to for scanning responded they'll just do a representation from the photo I gave them - which is not at all what I asked them to quote me.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 4:39 pm

Actually, you may be correct that Paint.net may not be part of Win11.
I just checked my root drive and there is a separate directory for Paint.net.4.3.8.
It was created the same day I installed Win11 on the drive, nine hours after creating the Windows directory, and I really can't think I would've been trying to edit any pictures while building a new system. Perhaps it was installed as part of something else - I don't know, but it comes up in the drop down menu whenever I want open a picture file, and it's what I use. As I said though, I can't work out how to get it do anything advanced at all.

My apologies, for the mistake, and thanks for making the suggestion.


bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:You can try paint.net

Looks like I might have been beaten. lol

Free download here

https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Download paint.net.JPG


Paint.net is included in Win11, it's what I use currently to put notes and info on my pictures. I did try searching the help in that but got nowhere. I don't know if it can't do what I want or if i simply doesn't understand my inexpert choice of search terms.


Don't get confused. "MS Paint" is not "Paint.net"


No confusion. If you are using Win11, open Paint.net and see for yourself.
MS Paint is another program, also included in Win11.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 12 Aug 2022, 4:46 pm

I appreciate the attempt, but the words you are using are the same jargon I get in the tutorials that help me not at all ;-)

I already have full-scale scans of the images, that's not an issue. I merely want to manipulate the images I have.

When I get some time I will try running this "trace bitmap" function on the jpg and see what it does for me, thanks for the tips.


Fionn wrote:This took me 2 mins to do from a photo I found on the net.

While Inkscape is a very powerful and complex program, for what you want its easy to do, just take a good square on picture of it with your phone, with even lighting and without reflections if possible, open the image in Inkscape and trace bitmap using the standard settings will give you what you want. Trace bitmap is simply pressing the function button in the menu, it does the tracing automatically.

As your image is basically 2 colours, its pretty simple. The harder bit in Inkscape is cleaning up images/vectors but you shouldn't need to do this.

This will give you a scalable vector image, which is easy to resize to anything you want or to change any colours.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Aug 2022, 10:24 am

I have to especially thank G-Swiss!
Rather than trying to educate me in how to do this myself, he simply requested the scan, did it, and sent me back the files, he must've realised that would be far quicker than trying to teach somebody that is simply never going to get it - thanks G :-)

I want to assure everybody that I do understand the frustration involved in trying to explain something that I do know is pretty basic. My situation is far from unique, but is somewhat complicated. I suffered an acquired brain injury after getting hammered by viral encephalitis in 1999. I came through it far, far better than many other people I know (a mate spent years relearning how to walk and feed himself), but it did leave me with permanent damage to parts of my brain. I was never hospitalised - being self-employed, I simply continued working through it until I eventually fell apart, and spent three years in bed. Primarily the damage is in the hypothalamus, which manages the basics like sweating, yawning, sleeping, waking, shivering, hunger, temperature control, the sorts of things that most people never have cause to think about. More of an issue is in trying to learn new things, things I wasn't already familiar with before then. From the inside, it seems to me that when I learn something new it gets written to a new part of my brain. If that part is damaged then it simply doesn't get retained, or perhaps it is there, but is not able to be retrieved when needed. Relearning it helps not at all, I think when you learn something very similar you automatically park it in the same place - which is not helpful for me :-) For example, I ignored auto electrics when I was younger, simply because I loved building engines instead. Which means that no matter how often I have it explained to me (which is very, very regularly), I have never retained anything related to auto-electrical systems, and don't expect that I ever will. Thankfully I did have some interest in electronics as a kid and enjoyed building the electronic project kits that were common back then, so I do at least understand the basics of electricity, usually sufficient to diagnose most minor issues. I'm also thankful that I did have some wide and varied interests when I was younger, as I have retained everything I learned in my early life, like shooting, reloading, motorcycle riding and racing, engine building, construction, and lots of other things - more than enough important stuff to keep myself entertained :-)

The injury also gave me the advantage of not retaining books and movies. I do retain how I "felt" about them, so I know whether I liked something, but it lets me indulge in them over and over and enjoy them again :-)

So, thank you to everybody that did try, my inability to take it in is no reflection on your own efforts to assist.
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Re: Picture editing?

Post by Fionn » 02 Sep 2023, 9:52 am

Came across the company that makes these target for the Army if your interested . https://www.mulfordplastics.com.au/proj ... -mulflute/
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