Floods and idiots

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Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 14 Oct 2022, 3:13 pm

It seems that every time it rains the f*cktards amongst us line up to drive into raging floodwaters putting the lives of our first responders at risk to rescue these brainles numpties.

What the actual f*ck do we have to do to get the message across to these moon units?

I just turned the TV on and what was on?
Firies and SES risking their lives to rescue some thoughtless idiot who has DELIBERATELY driven into rapidly moving flood waters.

Some obviously get caught unaware by flash flooding but a large number actually drive around "Road Closed" signs to demonstrate their stupidity.
Anyone doing this should be charged with the reckless endangerment of their own worthless lives but more importantly, the lives of those who are duty bound to rescue them.

So ends the ranting.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by cz515 » 14 Oct 2022, 3:29 pm

Mate Unfortunately with the advent of OH&S and proliferation of consultants that make their money from wrapping cotton wool around everything the dumbest ppl live longer and have fruitful lives and reproduce lots, thus decreasing the average IQ of the population.

Someone told me once, common-sense is free but not many people have it
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 14 Oct 2022, 3:48 pm

A perfect example of the cotton wool world in which we live;
Draino, concentrated sodium hydroxide drain cleaner.
The very first item on the instructions is "Do not eat"
Seems rather pointless to me, if you are young enough or dumb enough to consider eating it, a warning not to is most likely a waste of ink.

My solution;
Remove all safety warnings from everything and let nature take it's course.
About time we added some chlorine to the gene pool.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Oct 2022, 4:21 pm

Although I agree with most of the above comments, ie, stupid acts by stupid people.
Just sometimes there is info we don't get.
For example, the person driving through the flood may have just received a ph call that dad is on his death bed and only hours to go. Before passing judgement we need to keep that in mind.

Edit: an 18 year old will never be as smart as a 40 year old. Common sense comes with time/experience/age.
Last edited by Oldbloke on 14 Oct 2022, 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by cz515 » 14 Oct 2022, 4:34 pm

Ahh spoken like a true OH&S person. In 99% of the cases its a dumb act.

And Laz... draino, did you mean do not drink. Cuz if it said do not eat, i would class it as one of the best jokes this month :lol:
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 14 Oct 2022, 4:37 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Although I agree with most of the above comments, ie, stupid acts by stupid people.
Just sometimes there is info we don't get.
For example, the person driving through the flood may have just received a ph call that dad is on his death bed and only hours to go. Before passing judgement we need to keep that in mind.


Agreed OB, there is the possibility that very very occasionally that might be the case.
However the sheer number of incidents, every, single, time it floods would suggest otherwise.
My impression, for what little it's worth, is that incredible frequency of it happening suggests that the natural human arrogance of "it won't happen to.me, I'm a great driver" is far more likely to be at play.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Oct 2022, 4:39 pm

cz515 wrote:Ahh spoken like a true OH&S person. In 99% of the cases its a dumb act.

And Laz... draino, did you mean do not drink. Cuz if it said do not eat, i would class it as one of the best jokes this month :lol:


I need to correct you. I never put a number on it.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Oct 2022, 4:45 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Although I agree with most of the above comments, ie, stupid acts by stupid people.
Just sometimes there is info we don't get.
For example, the person driving through the flood may have just received a ph call that dad is on his death bed and only hours to go. Before passing judgement we need to keep that in mind.

Edit: an 18 year old will never be as smart as a 40 year old. Common sense comes with time/experience/age.


Just remember, everyone makes errors in judgement/mistakes. The difference is some don't matter, some have serious consequences.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 14 Oct 2022, 5:44 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Although I agree with most of the above comments, ie, stupid acts by stupid people.
Just sometimes there is info we don't get.
For example, the person driving through the flood may have just received a ph call that dad is on his death bed and only hours to go. Before passing judgement we need to keep that in mind.

Edit: an 18 year old will never be as smart as a 40 year old. Common sense comes with time/experience/age.


Just remember, everyone makes errors in judgement/mistakes. The difference is some don't matter, some have serious consequences.


Well I have to agree with you again OB, 18 year olds do have an illusion of immortality.

I suffered from it myself until the age of 37 when a sleeping semi trailer driver disabused that belief.

But many of those rescued are old enough to know better.
Again, it's easy for me to pontificate from my warm, dry armchair but it is galling to see yet another driver putting other's lives at risk by doing something patently suicidal.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by No1Mk3 » 14 Oct 2022, 5:47 pm

Tend to disagree with the thread, yes driving into even moderately moving water is not clever. But neither is the over-reaction of authorities in closing roads with 6" of still water for "safety". Around here roads that are perfectly drivable even in small cars let alone 4x4 or trucks are sealed off with media (and others) screaming about the "danger" of getting your tyres wet.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 14 Oct 2022, 6:19 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:Tend to disagree with the thread, yes driving into even moderately moving water is not clever. But neither is the over-reaction of authorities in closing roads with 6" of still water for "safety". Around here roads that are perfectly drivable even in small cars let alone 4x4 or trucks are sealed off with media (and others) screaming about the "danger" of getting your tyres wet.


Absolutely No 1 Mk3, but it's never roads with "only 6 inches of still water" where fools get washed away, and it's not those who drive through still water that are the subject of my post.
It's those who drive into fast running water who get into trouble.
How many times have you seen reports of yet another driver driving into obviously dangerous water and ending up dead or killing a passenger?

Perhaps a mandatory 6 figure fine would make them realise that there are more important things than being on time for dinner.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Oct 2022, 6:21 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Although I agree with most of the above comments, ie, stupid acts by stupid people.
Just sometimes there is info we don't get.
For example, the person driving through the flood may have just received a ph call that dad is on his death bed and only hours to go. Before passing judgement we need to keep that in mind.

Edit: an 18 year old will never be as smart as a 40 year old. Common sense comes with time/experience/age.


Just remember, everyone makes errors in judgement/mistakes. The difference is some don't matter, some have serious consequences.


Well I have to agree with you again OB, 18 year olds do have an illusion of immortality.

I suffered from it myself until the age of 37 when a sleeping semi trailer driver disabused that belief.

But many of those rescued are old enough to know better.
Again, it's easy for me to pontificate from my warm, dry armchair but it is galling to see yet another driver putting other's lives at risk by doing something patently suicidal.


Yep, agree. All I'm saying is that it isn't as simplistic as some like to make out.

But yes "they are among us".
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 14 Oct 2022, 7:05 pm

Oldbloke wrote:But yes "they are among us".


Yes mate, on this forum as well :drinks:
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Oct 2022, 7:30 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:But yes "they are among us".


Yes mate, on this forum as well :drinks:


YES
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by wanneroo » 15 Oct 2022, 1:11 am

I'm pretty much at the point that we just need to let nature take it's course with these people.

The average person just doesn't seem to realize the force of water. I saw some calculations with a current involved on the side of a vehicle and it's a significant amount.

I do some kayaking but I only do Class 1 and 2 rapids with an average water depth of 1 meter max. If I can't see the bottom of the creek in most spots I am not interested in going. Even then I have been popped out of my kayak twice and experienced the force of water. It's no joke and you do not mess around with it. I started swimming lessons at 4 and was a certified lifeguard by 15, so I can swim and know what to do in water, but once it reaches a certain strength you are SOL.

The creek I kayak on has periodic floods due to the odd tropical storm coming through from the south or a stalled out rain front. When that happens the water goes to 2-3 meters and is fast and muddy. We've had multiple fatalities in recent years do to people getting out on the creek during flood, two of them had fishing waiters on, so when they fell into the water they sank like a stone and drowned.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by northdude » 15 Oct 2022, 6:40 am

Humans trying to alter the course of nature because we know better. Unfortunatley we have to cater for the dumbest in the herd by all coming down to their level, usually nature takes care of them in any other species on the face of the earth...
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by animalpest » 15 Oct 2022, 9:28 am

Sometimes we can have a bit of common sense in the areas we are experienced in. But that doesn't necessarily always apply. And I see this in my work all the time.

For example, normal people going for a walk with their dogs and ignoring/not reading warning signs about traps. Even worse maybe is the client who asks does our insurance cover vet fees for the consequences.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by cz515 » 15 Oct 2022, 10:30 am

Lazarus wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:Tend to disagree with the thread, yes driving into even moderately moving water is not clever. But neither is the over-reaction of authorities in closing roads with 6" of still water for "safety". Around here roads that are perfectly drivable even in small cars let alone 4x4 or trucks are sealed off with media (and others) screaming about the "danger" of getting your tyres wet.


Absolutely No 1 Mk3, but it's never roads with "only 6 inches of still water" where fools get washed away, and it's not those who drive through still water that are the subject of my post.
It's those who drive into fast running water who get into trouble.
How many times have you seen reports of yet another driver driving into obviously dangerous water and ending up dead or killing a passenger?

Perhaps a mandatory 6 figure fine would make them realise that there are more important things than being on time for dinner.


Why is a monetary fine the solution to every problem?

If possible death doesn't cause people to stop why is a 6 figure fine going to do. And how do the police decide

do we fine the guy who is now dead, when there were no signs on the road beforehand?

Or maybe we fine them when there is 6 inch water?

And what about someone who was driving in the dark didn't notice the water, there was no signs and now had a mandatory 6 figure fine. Cuz you know cops love revenue raising. They sitting with their lights off waiting for someone to drive through the water and give them a 6 figure fine. What if they are on the pension, or a single income family. So have to choose between food, medical costs, mortgage/rent and the mandatory fine.

And what about the 18 year old, who just wants to drive and has no intention to pay the fine, however many they get... the government can bankrupt them... they got no assets or a job.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 15 Oct 2022, 11:10 am

"If possible death doesn't cause people to stop why is a 6 figure fine going to do. And how do the police decide"

Because most people believe, deep down, that bad things only ever happen to others and financial.pain is something of which they have a more visceral understanding.
Why do we have fines for speeding if the thought of crashing doesn't stop people?
How do police decide?
Perhaps this will help:
mandatory
/ˈmandət(ə)ri/
adjective
required by law or mandate; compulsory.
"wearing helmets was made mandatory for pedal cyclists"
Similar:
obligatory
compulsory
binding
required
inescapable
If it is mandatory the police do not get to decide as it has been mandated.


"do we fine the guy who is now dead, when there were no signs on the road beforehand?"

Stupid question, the dead guy has already paid for his decision.

"Or maybe we fine them when there is 6 inch water?"

Seriously? Unless they're on a skateboard, 6 inches of water isn't going to be a problem, is it?
If you read the original post it's about people putting other's lives at risk to rescue them from dangerous, fast running water, not puddles.

"And what about someone who was driving in the dark didn't notice the water,"

Perhaps you don't drive at night, so may not have noticed that people who do, do so with their headlights on.

"And what about the 18 year old, who just wants to drive and has no intention to pay the fine, however many they get... the government can bankrupt them... they got no assets or a job."

Well there's that sort of person everywhere, what is your answer?
Anarchy?
No rules or penalties for dangerous or inconsiderate behaviour?

We all.know you love to stir up arguments cz, but you're over reaching here.

We all have the right to our opinions mate, we should all remember that ours are as important to others as their's are to us.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by cz515 » 15 Oct 2022, 12:47 pm

My job is to try and help people by opening their eyes to other options out there, and how their thinking might be flawed.

You mentioned mandatory fines. But like all knee jerk reactions you didn't actually think it through did you.

The first question is how do you define a flood. Is it 6 inches on a road or 1m deep. Is it standing water or flowing water. And then what happens if it was 6 inches when you entered the water but there was a dip in the road itself or a flood comes quickly raising the water level from couple of inches to a meter or more deep. Also were they signs on the road telling the drivers to be safe... and should they be signs advising ppl of flood. And then when things dry off like they always do do people still not enter the road.

The point is think about the possibilities.

In most of the cases when people get stuck in flood water, they just don't realise the depth and the ability of their vehicles. And most of the cases when people end up dying is due to low visibility at night time. Hence my question that you so rubbished.

You are taking about mandatory $100,000+ fine. Most people will take years to pay that off... if ever. And crying like a pork chop when i inquire about the detail of your thought bubble.

The other reason i ask the questions is i have been in a situation where i was driving along the princess highway in really bad rain after i finished work around 5.30pm in Melbournein winter it was pretty dark. Its a multi lane road and i saw ahead of me in the left lane a car pass through a puddle of water probably a couple of inches deep. I was in the rightmost lane (driving well under 50kph). What i didn't realise until i got in the middle of the puddle that the road dipped considerably and the level of water was upto my door sills level, as i was probably driving at a speed higher then crawling which is usually fine for a small puddle some water entered the engine and my car spluttered died on the road. luckily i was able to get it off the road repair it enough to get it started and back on my way home. But according to your logic i could be fined $100k or more

What really rubbed me raw with your plan is that a drunk person or someone on ice can kill a family but end up with a smaller fine, possibly with 6/12 months jail.

While i consider myself to be a fairly safe driver and as i said in the left lane a car went through the water without any issues. So logically
at worst it would be an accident and at worst i endangered my own life but using your logic a public servant (cop) would write me a ticket thus my life in Australia would have been fkd. Thinking of the financial burden it would be to pay a fine of over 100k.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by cz515 » 15 Oct 2022, 12:56 pm

All those scenarios i mention are possible. And i have personally driven on roads in East Gippsland that would cover all those senarios. Maybe blade and a few others who live that way can agree

Sure maybe (like me) others don't agree with all rubbish you or OB throw out, but if you get out of your closed minds you will realise that you are not always right. Jumping up and down and yelling "cz you are wrong" does not make you right.

When i mention stuff it because i have either observed it myself, or it has happened in the past as a factual event. And i extrapolate historical events to future potential possibilities
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Die Judicii » 15 Oct 2022, 8:21 pm

Congrats CZ. You must be getting someone to proofread your posts before posting. Though I don’t necessarily agree with what you say, at least lately I can understand what you are saying.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by deye243 » 15 Oct 2022, 9:41 pm

Bloody hell I don't believe this thread I've been driving through flood waters for more than 38 years living in a area that floods not often but when it does it does a great job Bairnesdale East Gippsland never had a problem and have had water past the windscreen never been rescued never needed to be I really don't get what all the drama is about I mean people in cars and silly low brand new four-wheel drives they deserve everything they get.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by bradley33 » 15 Oct 2022, 11:26 pm

people are allowed to drink grog, get fat, smoke tobacco, drive cars that for some reason have been made to go faster than the speed limit since 1945, and all this kill millions and cost billions and thats just life. A few clowns want to drive around in a flood and cause a drama for first responders once every few years is small fry. Go fining acts of stupidity or waste and everyone will go broke. :lol:
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Die Judicii » 16 Oct 2022, 1:49 pm

Don’t know what all the fuss is about. Dealing with flood waters is part of life where we live. Specially with this La Ninya. I’ve been bogged many times over the years, even on beaches when I used to do a lot of surf fishing. Never lost a vehicle ever to flood waters or the ocean. Let common sense prevail and you’ll be right. Of course basic knowledge is the first stepping stone. Unlike the idiots u see that think pure speed will get em to the other side of the water.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 17 Oct 2022, 12:28 pm

Just turned the news on while having lunch and surprise, surprise, despite all the warnings since bloody Noah, despite innumerable reports of d!ckheads getting themselves and or their passengers killed and daily pleas for them not to, yesterday two more car loads of people drove around road closed signs, into deep flood water and someone else had to put their own lives at otherwise needless risk to rescue them.

I must admit, it's no doubt true that fines probably won't deter that sort of stupidity, so perhaps we should just leave them to their fate and weed them out of the gene pool.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by bradley33 » 17 Oct 2022, 12:34 pm

Im for that lazarus. Fact is, if it wasnt on the news would we even care. Probably 100 fat people died today with heart/artery problems and also encourage their kids to eat like pigs and thats a large scale tragedy but its not on the news this month.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Lazarus » 17 Oct 2022, 12:44 pm

bradley33 wrote:Im for that lazarus. Fact is, if it wasnt on the news would we even care. Probably 100 fat people died today with heart/artery problems and also encourage their kids to eat like pigs and thats a large scale tragedy but its not on the news this month.


Absolutely right Bradley, what makes driving into deep water in a passenger vehicle particularly egregious is that some brave, selfless individuals will have to put themselves at mortal risk to rescue a selfish numpty.

I have a deep sore point involving drowning for reasons I won't go into here, and in these instances it's totally avoidable.
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by cz515 » 17 Oct 2022, 6:28 pm

The point of any discussion is people have dissent viewpoints, some will while others disagree.

Calling one group of dumb for having a viewpoint different then yours is not right. I am glad this forum allows a bit of robust discussion and doesn't ban people for having a certain viewpoint.

Anyway i think i have said enough about this topic. Take care
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Re: Floods and idiots

Post by Die Judicii » 18 Oct 2022, 9:47 am

I realise this isn’t the perfect answer either,,,,,,,,,,,,, But if it was legislated to make it illegal and in fact,,, a criminal offence,,, to rescue or retrieve any vehicles or people that have driven around the signs and into the water. I suspect that in those cases the insurance companies already would refuse any vehicle insurance payouts.
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