Compulsory electric vehicle madness

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by straightshooter » 07 Apr 2023, 9:58 am

If one accepts the fact that ignorance is simply an absence of knowledge then blissful ignorance in all it's magnificence is a fascinating thing to behold, particularly when it is being pushed by by the likes of rusted on Laber, green left, animal justice et al.
Going total EV is a noble prospect but what become of crude oil.
I am sure many will have known this all along, once they are told, that only roughly a third of crude oil is used for fuel. A third is used to make industrial chemicals and fertilisers and another third is used to make plastics.
We are likely to have ongoing needs for plastics, chemicals and fertilisers. (unless a mass eradication programme is set in train)
So what then happens to the 'waste' byproduct of the production of plastics, chemicals and fertilisers?
Do we burn it?
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 07 Apr 2023, 10:12 am

straightshooter wrote:So what then happens to the 'waste' byproduct of the production of plastics, chemicals and fertilisers?
Do we burn it?


"The most common byproduct is water, which is treated and disposed of easily. Byproducts can also be valuable raw materials that are recycled back into the feedstream.
Examples: Nylon (polyamide), polyester and polyurethane."


https://www.bpf.co.uk/plastipedia/how-i ... ,polyamide)%2C%20polyester%20and%20polyurethane.

The veiw from the ecologists, just to be balanced;

https://ecologycenter.org/plastics/ptf/report3/
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 07 Apr 2023, 10:32 am

Speaking of EVs, has anyone seen the price of Lithium batteries these days?

I used to buy a pack of Energizer lithium AA batteries, about $20 for a box of 24. Then it creeped up to $30 or so. Last year went up to $40 and now at Amazon last I looked they were $66.

I use them in the trail cameras because the lithium last longer than alkaline, 6 months vs 3-4 months.

Where are they going to source all this lithium at for all these car batteries?
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 07 Apr 2023, 10:40 am

womble wrote:I see them around, but I travel around country a lot, and a lot of that’s of the beaten track. And I get lost a lot.
Wind turbine farms, huge actually, biggest in the southern hemisphere. Pumped hydro reservoirs. Which I expect we’ll be seeing a lot more of because it’s a storage alternative to a battery.
Solar farms. How can you miss them. They’re freaking everywhere.
Not expecting new coal power stations in vic though tbh. Existing ones in vic will all be finished up in a few years. Winding them down now.
Don’t even know why I need to address that lol. That’s like we’re getting new steam trains.
I believe QLD has some in the pipeline. Whether or not they go ahead or currently are I don’t know.
These are the people who can’t even spell beer. So who knows.
Who’s building the new stuff. Big companies. Oceanx, Vestas, GE, Nordex. etc. They offer you a turnkey package for your country these days.

This is like having a discussion with someone who hasn’t seen beyond the four walls of the room they’re in for 20 years.
I suspect that’s why Geoff posted this thread is done as soon as climate deniers piped in.
It’s been nearly 10 years since exxonmoblil was subpoenaed under the freedom of information act, and these clowns are still noooo but this but this
f***ing ridiculous. :D
It’s really no different than what happened to big tobacco. Well except that it’s worse. But anyway. We’ll still be able to drive around our ice stick shifts for a long time yet. Probably just won’t be able to buy a brand new one in 10 years or so time. At least not from a major manufacturer.


The reason I posted the link to Guy Martin's doco is it shows directly what happens by the second with all this wind, tidal, hydro, solar, etc. It's not consistent to keep the power grid up and electricity flowing through the lines. People have to sit in a command center and manage it by the second and it's why you can't get rid of coal, biomass, natural gas, nuclear, etc. There is no consistency with all this other stuff that can keep the grid functioning.

The people pushing EVs can never give me a straight answer on how they are gonna make all this happen in the next 10 years. Any time you press them on how it's gonna happen they deflect with climate denier proclamations or punch out.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 07 Apr 2023, 10:40 am

wanneroo wrote:Speaking of EVs, has anyone seen the price of Lithium batteries these days?

I used to buy a pack of Energizer lithium AA batteries, about $20 for a box of 24. Then it creeped up to $30 or so. Last year went up to $40 and now at Amazon last I looked they were $66.

I use them in the trail cameras because the lithium last longer than alkaline, 6 months vs 3-4 months.

Where are they going to source all this lithium at for all these car batteries?


Australia if we pull our heads out of our arses

And what hasn't gone up in price?

Eggs are dearer, nothing to do with EVs, milk is dearer, nothing EV there.
Your arguments are getting pointless now.
Time to head to the Manosphere for a beer and some male strippers.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by straightshooter » 07 Apr 2023, 10:49 am

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink (or for rusted on Laber, green left, animal justice et al should that be think)
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 07 Apr 2023, 2:19 pm

wanneroo wrote:
womble wrote:I see them around, but I travel around country a lot, and a lot of that’s of the beaten track. And I get lost a lot.
Wind turbine farms, huge actually, biggest in the southern hemisphere. Pumped hydro reservoirs. Which I expect we’ll be seeing a lot more of because it’s a storage alternative to a battery.
Solar farms. How can you miss them. They’re freaking everywhere.
Not expecting new coal power stations in vic though tbh. Existing ones in vic will all be finished up in a few years. Winding them down now.
Don’t even know why I need to address that lol. That’s like we’re getting new steam trains.
I believe QLD has some in the pipeline. Whether or not they go ahead or currently are I don’t know.
These are the people who can’t even spell beer. So who knows.
Who’s building the new stuff. Big companies. Oceanx, Vestas, GE, Nordex. etc. They offer you a turnkey package for your country these days.

This is like having a discussion with someone who hasn’t seen beyond the four walls of the room they’re in for 20 years.
I suspect that’s why Geoff posted this thread is done as soon as climate deniers piped in.
It’s been nearly 10 years since exxonmoblil was subpoenaed under the freedom of information act, and these clowns are still noooo but this but this
f***ing ridiculous. :D
It’s really no different than what happened to big tobacco. Well except that it’s worse. But anyway. We’ll still be able to drive around our ice stick shifts for a long time yet. Probably just won’t be able to buy a brand new one in 10 years or so time. At least not from a major manufacturer.


The reason I posted the link to Guy Martin's doco is it shows directly what happens by the second with all this wind, tidal, hydro, solar, etc. It's not consistent to keep the power grid up and electricity flowing through the lines. People have to sit in a command center and manage it by the second and it's why you can't get rid of coal, biomass, natural gas, nuclear, etc. There is no consistency with all this other stuff that can keep the grid functioning.

The people pushing EVs can never give me a straight answer on how they are gonna make all this happen in the next 10 years. Any time you press them on how it's gonna happen they deflect with climate denier proclamations or punch out.


True. Massive challenges ahead. 10 year targets, not going to happen. Or 20 or 30
We’re bridging some of the transition with natural gas here.
But I think the one thing the LNP got right is just leave it up to private industry. Create competition and you’re driving improvements.
The targets are more intended as shoot for the moon land in the stars. Impossible goals get high results.
I lost the article but I think Australia has over 50% of the worlds lithium and we’re mining it like crazy.
Possible why chyna is taking such an interest in us.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 07 Apr 2023, 2:21 pm

Ononewherl you stay in the left lane in that thing.
Gonna chop you up in my electric egg
Wont even need to drop a gear, well because I don’t have any.
Just ping and…. You disappear
Just a dot in my rear view camera
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 07 Apr 2023, 3:15 pm

"People have to sit in a command center and manage it by the second and it's why you can't get rid of coal, biomass, natural gas, nuclear, etc"

Because coal, biomass, natural gas, nuclear just
run themselves?

I did some work at Bayswater power station in the 90s and got a guided tour, part of which was the control room, plenty of people there 24/7.

These arguments are getting more ridiculous as this thread goes on.

Geoff was right
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Shootermick » 07 Apr 2023, 9:17 pm

I think people struggle with the word compulsory.
I’ll just sit on the fence and let change and technology work it out for themselves, surely smarter people than me are behind these decisions. Hopefully the outcome is in the best interests for the majority of us.
I’m a farmer, I use huge amounts of diesel in the utes, tractors, trucks, sprayer, header etc every year. Maybe one day they’ll all be powered by electricity, maybe not. If so, maybe in my lifetime, also maybe not.
Decades ago, if someone told me that in the future I could jump in my tractor and sit there while it’s steers itself, at 2cm repeatable year to year accuracy mind you, I would have said, Na, not likely mate. Now it’s common place and many of us couldn’t do our jobs without it. Now there are autonomous tractors, perhaps not out in the field, but prototypes have been around for a while. Again I’ll say, Na, how could that work? But if I revisit this thought in X amount of years, maybe they’ll be common place? Or maybe not?
So I’ll just keep doing my own day to day work, and try to embrace this EV change if and when I’m faced with it.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 08 Apr 2023, 2:03 am

Lazarus wrote:"People have to sit in a command center and manage it by the second and it's why you can't get rid of coal, biomass, natural gas, nuclear, etc"

Because coal, biomass, natural gas, nuclear just
run themselves?

I did some work at Bayswater power station in the 90s and got a guided tour, part of which was the control room, plenty of people there 24/7.

These arguments are getting more ridiculous as this thread goes on.

Geoff was right


Uhhh, obviously no they do not run themselves.

I don't think you are understanding what I am talking about, watch the doco and then get back to me.

Because things like wind are highly variable, they have to send out orders constantly to up or down traditional power plants in order to keep the lights on.

In other words, it's impossible anytime soon to ditch these traditional sources of electricity because it's necessary to have that ability to keep the electricity flowing.

The car manufacturers are figuring out going full electric isn't gonna happen. Hybrid tech makes more sense to me to recover any wasted energy while driving ICE vehicles.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by MtnMan » 08 Apr 2023, 6:49 am

Lazarus wrote:


And what hasn't gone up in price?



Maybe prices haven't gone up.

Could be the value of fiat currency has gone down.

Might be the unprecedented currency creation. ;)
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 09 Apr 2023, 1:27 pm

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/main ... -refinery/

Thought you all would find this article interesting on Porsche making liquid fuel from air and water using wind energy. Pretty interesting process, part it using a process Exxon developed in the 1970s. Porsche obviously is doing a lot of electric stuff, but is not giving up the internal combustion engine.

At the moment it is expensive but they are using it in all their racing cars worldwide this year. They think they can scale it up and make it more affordable.

Porsche is also building a plant in Tasmania as well:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/porsch ... -from-2026
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 09 Apr 2023, 5:29 pm

Excellent news, if people get behind it, tha will ensure nobody's coming for our wheels.

Thanks
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by S O K A R » 13 Apr 2023, 4:02 pm

Couldn't be bothered reading 5 pages, but I'll stick my 2c worth in...

Lithium batteries aside, I think one of the main issues with compulsory adaption of electric vehicles is the inability for the power grid to be able to handle the sheer mass of what would be required.
I mean look at California, people were being told not to charge their cars at one point because it would overload the power grid.
From memory they even shut down the power grid at one point because of it.
Definitely need to look an upgrading things before this becomes a thing, learn to walk before you run so to speak.

I could be wrong, but from the articles I have seen on the topic its not all petrol/diesel cars are banned by 2030.
The ones I have seen suggest that fossil fuel powered vehicles will no longer be able to be sold new (from the factory/show room), but my understanding was that this in no way translated to forcing people with older model cars to move over to electric.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 19 Apr 2023, 2:03 pm

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by noneyabussiness » 21 Apr 2023, 2:17 pm

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 22 Apr 2023, 10:45 am

noneyabussiness wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XT9_IYMq8DQ&feature=youtu.be


The Swedes are on that case it would seem.

https://electrek.co/2023/04/21/scania-n ... ery-truck/
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by JohnV » 30 Apr 2023, 4:12 pm

The great risk in all this is that trying to turn a big country like Australia into all electric vehicles will drive up the cost of living dramatically and create far more poverty while trashing the economy . People will have to go back to the horse and cart . As bladeracer says you won't be able to afford an electric car , maybe an electric bike with a basket . We already have supply chain problems now . Making drastic changes to distribution networks that might totally fail is so risky . I am with Oldbloke , it's never going to work here but they are psycho enough to try it .
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 30 Apr 2023, 5:45 pm

JohnV wrote:The great risk in all this is that trying to turn a big country like Australia into all electric vehicles will drive up the cost of living dramatically and create far more poverty while trashing the economy . People will have to go back to the horse and cart . As bladeracer says you won't be able to afford an electric car , maybe an electric bike with a basket . We already have supply chain problems now . Making drastic changes to distribution networks that might totally fail is so risky . I am with Oldbloke , it's never going to work here but they are psycho enough to try it .


The Greens won't let us own horses by then either.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by AlHow » 01 May 2023, 12:47 pm

Thee whole idea is push people into the 15 min smart cities. There will be no need for long distance travel or even owning a vehicle. The whole idea of leccy vehicles is financially unsustainable. Our gov corporations know it.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 03 May 2023, 8:11 am

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by S O K A R » 03 May 2023, 3:34 pm

Lazarus wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-05-03/catl-announces-battery-to-make-electric-aviation-possible/102289310


Would be lovely to be 30,000ft up when she decides she wants to go up, like the countless ev buses to date.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71cVhxG_v4
Hell of a time to be alive :roll:
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 03 May 2023, 4:10 pm

S O K A R wrote:
Lazarus wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-05-03/catl-announces-battery-to-make-electric-aviation-possible/102289310


Would be lovely to be 30,000ft up when she decides she wants to go up, like the countless ev buses to date.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71cVhxG_v4
Hell of a time to be alive :roll:


With a bit of luck the solid state batteries they have in development will solve that, no solvent, no fire
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Robin » 07 May 2023, 9:50 am

I'll be honest , If they had a battery UTE that would go at least 600km on a charge, then I would think about it for work and general driving, I would still want to keep my Diesel muncher for when I go bush bashing or camping for long times.

Hopefully by 2032, there would have been enough R&D to make battery cars go further and have solar panels included in the car chassis to allow it to charge on the go.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 07 May 2023, 10:02 am

Robin wrote:I'll be honest , If they had a battery UTE that would go at least 600km on a charge, then I would think about it for work and general driving, I would still want to keep my Diesel muncher for when I go bush bashing or camping for long times.

Hopefully by 2032, there would have been enough R&D to make battery cars go further and have solar panels included in the car chassis to allow it to charge on the go.


The new electric Ram is apparently coming here, claimed figures of 800km range and 6000kg towing.
Sounds great, but the price will no doubt be eye watering.
This article is an interesting idea, but I imagine the retrofitting cost would be the limiting factor.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/stellan ... induction/
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